Joe Biden denied Holy Communion at South Carolina Church

chevyontheriver said:

You mean to make Quebec what God intended all along? I kinda like the idea.

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Sure, stretch Quebec from sea to sea. Canada has fewer people than California, I think it can be done. Expel the heathens, enact Catholic laws, only permit citizenship to Catholics, establish Catholicism not only as the state religion but the only religion (because error has no rights).

chevyontheriver said:

Of course I know that all but the rarest type of Protestant denominations teach that contraception is just fine

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Well, I've been in many denominations, many churches in different cities over the years. I'd guess about 40-50 preachers... Heard at least 1,000 sermons in person I guess, or a good deal more if you count radio and internet.

And never heard one thing about it.

To "teach" it in any manner.... that would need some moment of saying words, wouldn't you agree? Or having posters. Or flyers. Or a class. Seen and read very very many, but not on that subject. Just missing.

I'd say they simply don't teach anything, predominately. Once in a blue moon?

Now someone can show up and say they heard something, lol. (or maybe very few ever have?)

chevyontheriver said:

That. And some of us do follow the teaching. Just to be contrarian of course.

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It might not be want you'd expect or guess, but I like that, and possibly because my very good, close Catholic friend explained the why of it to me -- to let this wonderful part of life be under God's control, instead of trying to control it ourselves.

I like that.

But....do modern Catholics much? Do they have the large families it leads to still these days? Or is there some other form of 'contraception' but by a different name ('natural family planning or whatever)? Or do they actually abstain? What about Catholics around the world though? Are they having the 6, 7...or more kids non contraception would naturally lead to in many nations?

Y'all may like what happened to me.

When I was in my 30s, a bachelor, my 2 closest friends were married and having kids, and they started to ask me didn't I want kids?

One time my friend would ask. Or another time his wife would. Both families.



In the first few years of that I'd say something like "Well, I'm not really especially wanting that."

But eventually, with their kids on my lap and running around, and just myself getting older I finally allowed to them --
"Well, if I had any kids I think I'd just want to have 1. A daughter."

Years pass.

I married late at 44, and my wife the same age as me, and 2 doctors had told her that due to scarring she would not be able to conceive.

So, having a daughter was off the table, and I wasn't too worried about it, though perhaps a part of me was feeling a slight loss. But it wasn't strong in my mind.

But....God had other plans it seems.

Though 2 doctors had said she could not get pregnant, she did, at 44, and we have a wonderful amazing beautiful daughter, and it's really a life-changing blessing. We've been feeling blessed over the years at how great a kid she is too.

It's really something. Because she's been so good for us. She's sorta this ideal, and it seems like we got really lucky. But now I guess I realize it might not be luck at all.

Markie Boy said:

Yes - I know of several couples that follow the teaching. They are rare, but are around.

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chevyontheriver said:

That. And some of us do follow the teaching. Just to be contrarian of course.

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Michie said:

Well I think so, but they seem to be more Catholic in the “open to life” department than basically all Protestants and many Catholics.

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Halbhh said:

I have a question: is it a Catholic view that instead of regulating alcohol sales or sex outside of marriage with public secular laws, that instead, we should seek to convert people to Christ in order that through Him, over time through the sacraments, they be conformed to follow Him and be changed in that way?

In other words, that a Catholic wouldn't seek to establish a public secular (not church) law to outlaw something like adultery, because sin isn't controlled in reality by public laws, but instead by conversion?

I'm asking to better understand the Catholic view.

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Well all law is based on morality, on a concept of justice, and it comes down to where you get your morality from, from the Bible and the Christian community or from philosophers from the 1600’s?


Now there are other factors too, can the law be enforced and other practical concerns, this led to at some times prostitution being legal (though regulated to outside the city or other such restrictions) because it was assumed an outright ban would be impossible to enforce and it was seen as a way for sinful men to satisfy their urges without seducing innocent women.

Not saying that legal prostitution is a good idea, just pointing out that even medieval Europe understood that not everything sinful should necessarily be a crime

What is the Church? Is it just the clergy? No no no, it is the People of God.
now in a Christian nation the People of God would be in the clergy, but also family members, community members, business men, and government officials, all working in their own respective sphere of influence to encourage virtue and truth and discourage vice and falsehood

Rhamiel said:

Well all law is based on morality, on a concept of justice, and it comes down to where you get your morality from, from the Bible and the Christian community or from philosophers from the 1600’s?


Now there are other factors too, can the law be enforced and other practical concerns, this led to at some times prostitution being legal (though regulated to outside the city or other such restrictions) because it was assumed an outright ban would be impossible to enforce and it was seen as a way for sinful men to satisfy their urges without seducing innocent women.

Not saying that legal prostitution is a good idea, just pointing out that even medieval Europe understood that not everything sinful should necessarily be a crime

What is the Church? Is it just the clergy? No no no, it is the People of God.
now in a Christian nation the People of God would be in the clergy, but also family members, community members, business men, and government officials, all working in their own respective sphere of influence to encourage virtue and truth and discourage vice and falsehood

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In the "new Earth" to come, there we can look forward to the Ideal and perfect being the reality.

Halbhh said:

Well, I've been in many denominations, many churches in different cities over the years. I'd guess about 40-50 preachers... Heard at least 1,000 sermons in person I guess, or a good deal more if you count radio and internet.

And never heard one thing about it.

To "teach" it in any manner.... that would need some moment of saying words, wouldn't you agree? Or having posters. Or flyers. Or a class. Seen and read very very many, but not on that subject. Just missing.

I'd say they simply don't teach anything, predominately. Once in a blue moon?

Now someone can show up and say they heard something, lol. (or maybe very few ever have?)

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So I guess you would have to ask.

It sounds like it's not even on their moral radar to say anything about. Now before 1930, at the Anglican Lambeth Conference, EVERY Protestant denomination would have had it on their moral radar. You would have heard about it from the pulpit. But in 1930 the Anglican Lambeth Conference allowed contraception for some very rare exceptions. Then within a few years the whole of Protestantism decided contraception was no big deal.

The Catholic Church almost went along, and in 1968 was poised to abandon the ship the Protestants had already abandoned. Archbishop Karol Wojtyla sent a report to pope Paul VI advocating standing firm, while a commission of other Catholic experts encouraged the pope to abandon ship. The result was Humanae Vitae, which reaffirmed Christian teaching, which used to be universal Christian teaching, that contraception was immoral. The Protestants would have all agreed with that before 1930.

The Protestants pushed for passage of the Comstock Laws making contraception illegal. But society changed, and the Protestants changed with society. Lots of individual Catholics changed with the times too. It's probable that a majority of Catholics ignore Catholic teaching on contraception now.

So who was right? The old Protestants, or the new Protestants? The old ones made laws to bolster their position on contraception. The new ones repealed those same laws to bolster their position. Hey, contraception is just one example. Prohibition is another. So is the 'war on drugs' where we are now poised to legalize pot after imprisoning millions of people for pot. I think the criminalization of so many things was based on Puritanism, and the Puritans gave up their whole thing. I don't advocate pot, don't use it, consider it's use to be immoral, but I have to ask if incarcerating millions was the correct thing to do.

Codifying morality into law doesn't make people moral.

Halbhh said:

It might not be want you'd expect or guess, but I like that, and possibly because my very good, close Catholic friend explained the why of it to me -- to let this wonderful part of life be under God's control, instead of trying to control it ourselves.

I like that.

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There are two very compelling compilations of essays put together by Janet Smith that might be of interest to you. One titled 'Why Humanae Vitae Was Right' and the other 'Why Humanae Vitae Is Still Right'.

But....do modern Catholics much? Do they have the large families it leads to still these days? Or is there some other form of 'contraception' but by a different name ('natural family planning or whatever)? Or do they actually abstain? What about Catholics around the world though? Are they having the 6, 7...or more kids non contraception would naturally lead to in many nations?

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Modern Catholics, particularly in the USA, are almost all essentially Protestant in their morality. Some of us aren't but most contracept, many abort, many skip mass, many don't bother to confess a thing. But they still call themselves Catholic.

And this gets back to Joe Biden. He says he is a Catholic. Yet his positions on multiple moral issues is in absolute rebellion from Catholic teaching. His position on abortion has become ever more radical, and as long as he maintains that position publicly he should not be receiving communion. If he is too jaded from the truth to refrain from communion it should be withheld from him for the protection of his own immortal soul. It is right and proper to deny him communion. And it's wrong for anyone to vote for him while he advocates for immoral positions.

Halbhh said:

But....God had other plans it seems.

Though 2 doctors had said she could not get pregnant, she did, at 44, and we have a wonderful amazing beautiful daughter, and it's really a life-changing blessing. We've been feeling blessed over the years at how great a kid she is too.

It's really something. Because she's been so good for us. She's sorta this ideal, and it seems like we got really lucky. But now I guess I realize it might not be luck at all.

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Children are a blessing. Society treats children as a curse. That's really messed up. We are looking at demographic winter if we don't watch it. Many countries are in demographic winter right now. And that will be a curse.