Will people go to Hell for worshipping on Sunday?

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

I said no Jew PHYSICALLY killed Yeshua.

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Here is your quote that I responded to, from post 393.

I don't remember one Jew killing Yeshua...lots of Romans, yes.

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Here is what the scripture says -


The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree. Acts 5:30


Hopefully now your memory has been refreshed and you can see the error of your statement.



JLB

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Are you grafted into Israel? There is no lie. Yeshua said the Sabbath was made for Adam...we are ALL Adam's children...

There is no scripture that He says not too...and the Sabbath was a commandment from His Father...Yeshua did and taught what the Father willed and commanded...

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Please show me the scripture where Jesus commanded the Church to worship only on the Sabbath.





JLB

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Yah is the poetic form...it is a SUFFIX. So you agree with Yahweh? YeHoshua...YeHonatan…YeHoram

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Yahweh would be more accurate than Yehovah, because there’s no V in Hebrew. That’s a modern letter.

If Yah is the poetic form of Yehovah, wouldn’t it be Yeh? That doesn’t make sense. Also, why use a different form of the name to end the name, when you use different letters to start a name when referencing the same name?

that’s very confusing...

Psalm 68:4, call him by his name, YAH.

It doesn’t make sense to say HALLELUYAH, which means praise YAH, and then turn right around and say his name is YEHovah.

if his name is YEHovah, why not say halleluYEH?

Erik Nelson said:

God the Father created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1) through / by means of / via His Word (Genesis 1:3+)

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Genesis 1:1 certainly does not say God the Father created the heavens and the earth, brother.


In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1


God, in this verse is Elohim, which refers to the Godhead.


But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And:
“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands. Hebrews 1:8-10


This is a quote from Zechariah.


The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: Zechariah 12:1


YHWH the Lord God is speaking through the mouth of Zechariah the prophet.



He goes on to say in verse 10 -



“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10



Jesus Christ is YHWH, the Lord God.

His Spirit was in the Old Testament prophets, speaking forth through them.


Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.
1 Peter 1:10-11





JLB

Erik Nelson said:

and the Rabbis have recorded the received vowels & pronunciation going along with those four letters, which is "Yehovah" or "Yehowah"

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Brother, Yehovah is. Not the name of God.


Yehovah is a compound word, made up of:

Yah the shortened form for Lord. Strongs H3050

Example: Halleluyah

Praise the Lord.


Hovah means - wickedness or ruin - Strongs H1943


Now do you think God is the Lord of wickedness?




JLB

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

So I assume you have no idea regarding Theophoric prefixes and suffixes in Hebrew names...yeah I thought so

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Go look up what hovah means in Hebrew.


Strongs # 1943



JLB

JLB777 said:

Please show me the scripture where Jesus commanded the Church to worship only on the Sabbath

JLB

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Show us where the Messiah said to not keep the Sabbath holy...

also, show us where any apostle or even the Messiah himself went to a church on Sunday and instructed people to forsake keeping the Sabbath holy, and to start going to church on “the Lord’s day”.

worship is supposed to be every day.

the sabbath is about RESTING...

Dkh587 said:

Show us where the Messiah said to not keep the Sabbath holy...

also, show us where any apostle or even the Messiah himself went to a church on Sunday and instructed people to forsake keeping the Sabbath holy, and to start going to church on “the Lord’s day”.

worship is supposed to be every day.

the sabbath is about RESTING...

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There is no scripture where Jesus commands us to worship on the Sabbath.


Jesus fulfilled the Sabbath, as He is our peace and our rest.


Now that the law of Moses has been abolished, the Sabbath is simply a day for man to rest.




JLB

Der Alter said:

Hebrew names have meaning. What is the meaning of Yehovah in Hebrew. YOu and others who staunchly insist the God's name is Jehovah, Yehovah etc. might want to read the 1917 Jewish Encyclopedia.

YHWH.
Of the names of God in the Old Testament, that which occurs most frequently (6,823 times) is the so-called Tetragrammaton, Yhwh (יהוה), the distinctive personal name of the God of Israel. This name is commonly represented in modern translations by the form "Jehovah," which, however, is a philological impossibility (see Jehovah). This form has arisen through attempting to pronounce the consonants of the name with the vowels of Adonai (אדני = "Lord"), which the Masorites have inserted in the text, indicating thereby that Adonai was to be read (as a "keri perpetuum") instead of Yhwh. When the name Adonai itself precedes, to avoid repetition of this name, Yhwh is written by the Masorites with the vowels of Elohim, in which case Elohim is read instead of Yhwh. In consequence of this Masoretic reading the authorized and revised English versions (though not the American edition of the revised version) render Yhwh by the word "Lord" in the great majority of cases.
In appearance, Yhwh (יהוה) is the third person singular imperfect "kal" of the verb ( הוה ("to be"), meaning, therefore, "He is," or "He will be," or, perhaps, "He lives," the root idea of the word being, probably, "to blow," "to breathe," and hence, "to live." With this explanation agrees the meaning of the name given in Ex. iii. 14, where God is represented as speaking, and hence as using the first person—"I am" (אהיה, from ( היה, the later equivalent of the archaic stem ( הוה). The meaning would, therefore, be "He who is self-existing, self-sufficient," or, more concretely, "He who lives," the abstract conception of pure existence being foreign to Hebrew thought. There is no doubt that the idea of life was intimately connected with the name Yhwh from early times. He is the living God, as contrasted with the lifeless gods of the heathen, and He is the source and author of life (comp. I Kings xviii.; Isa. xli. 26-29, xliv. 6-20; Jer. x. 10, 14; Gen. ii. 7; etc.). So familiar is this conception of God to the Hebrew mind that it appears in the common formula of an oath, "hai Yhwh" ( חי־יהוה = "as Yhwh lives"; Ruth iii. 13; I Sam. xiv. 45; etc.).
If the explanation of the form above given be the true one, the original pronunciation must have been Yahweh ((יהוה) or Yahaweh (יהוה). From this the contracted form Jah or Yah (יה ) is most readily explained, and also the forms Jeho or Yeho (יהו ), and Jo or Yo (יו contracted from יהו , which the word assumes in combination in the first part of compound proper names, and Yahu or Yah (יהו ) in the second part of such names. The fact may also be mentioned that in Samaritan poetry יהוה rimes with words similar in ending to Yahweh, and Theodoret ("Quæst. 15 in Exodum") states that the Samaritans pronounced the name Iαβέ. Epiphanius ascribes the same pronunciation to an early Christian sect. Clement of Alexandria, still more exactly, pronounces 'Iαουέ or 'Iαουαί, and Origen, 'Iα. Aquila wrote the name in archaic Hebrew letters. In the Jewish-Egyptian magic-papyri it appears as Ιαωουηε. At least as early as the third century B.C. the name seems to have been regarded by the Jews as a "nomen ineffabile," on the basis of a somewhat extreme interpretation of Ex. xx. 7 and Lev. xxiv. 11 (see Philo, "De Vita Mosis," iii. 519, 529). Written only in consonants, the true pronunciation was forgotten by them. The Septuagint, and after it the New Testament, invariably render κύριος ("the Lord").
Jewish Encyclopedia online​

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well, that is 180-degrees backwards from what Nehemia Gordon claims

He addresses this very issue, but observes that the vowels of "Adonai" are A-O-A whereas the correct form is E-O-A

When you say "Adonai", you don't utter "Eh-donai" but "Ah-donai" hence "Yah-weh" instead of "Yeh-oweh"

I don't see how what you quoted can possibly be correct -- inserting the vowels of "Ah-doh-nI" into YHWH = YAH... not YEH...

Nehemia Gordon says everything you just quoted, except the other way around, the pronunciation cannot possibly be "Yahweh" because the vowels don't line up for complicated grammatical reasons, etc.

klutedavid said:

Is that what you were taught?

Leviticus 12:1-3
Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the sons of Israel, saying: ‘When a woman gives birth and bears a male child, then she shall be unclean for seven days, as in the days of her menstruation she shall be unclean. On the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

If the law of circumcision has passed, then obviously, a letter (iota) of the law has passed.

Matthew 5:18
For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Not the smallest letter of the law will pass unless all is accomplished or fulfilled by Jesus.

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Matthew 5:18 was spoken to ethnic Jewish Israelites, not to gentiles

Jesus spoke to basically no gentiles face to face

ethnically Jewish Christians always kept the whole law, that's why Paul was forced to take Nazirite vows when he returned to Jerusalem, and why he circumcised Timothy who was ethnically Jewish (yes?)

ethnic Jews, as descendants of those who received the Laws of Moses at Sinai, had to continue keeping all of those laws

ethnic gentiles, as descendants "only" of Noah, "only" had to keep the Laws of Noah after the flood (Gen 9:4-6)

"different strokes for different folks" but all according to the immutable Torah

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

I am not speaking of Judaizing...Yeshua taught Torah...do you disagree?

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yes but that Torah teaches that more laws apply to ethnic Jews than to anyone else

ethnic gentiles "only" had to keep the Laws of Noah and be "Righteous gentiles", not Righteous Jews

the Church might (say) initially adopt pagan holidays as Saints' feast days, with the aim of gradually converting them all the way to a more complete Christianity... but I know of no evidence that the early Church was doing the same for Judaism, trying to gradually convert gentiles all the way to full Mosaic Torah observance

thought Saint Paul, Saint James and the 50 AD Jerusalem Council of Acts 15 made it clear ?

Erik Nelson said:

well, that is 180-degrees backwards from what Nehemia Gordon claims

He addresses this very issue, but observes that the vowels of "Adonai" are A-O-A whereas the correct form is E-O-A

When you say "Adonai", you don't utter "Eh-donai" but "Ah-donai" hence "Yah-weh" instead of "Yeh-oweh"

I don't see how what you quoted can possibly be correct -- inserting the vowels of "Ah-doh-nI" into YHWH = YAH... not YEH...

Nehemia Gordon says everything you just quoted, except the other way around, the pronunciation cannot possibly be "Yahweh" because the vowels don't line up for complicated grammatical reasons, etc.

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Nehemiah Gordon is an anti-Messiah. He has no authority on God’s name. If you don’t have the Son, you don’t have the Father. Nehemiah has neither.

JLB777 said:

Genesis 1:1 certainly does not say God the Father created the heavens and the earth, brother.


In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1:1


God, in this verse is Elohim, which refers to the Godhead.


But to the Son He says:
“Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;
A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your kingdom.
You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God, Your God, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
And:
“You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth,
And the heavens are the work of Your hands. Hebrews 1:8-10


This is a quote from Zechariah.


The burden of the word of the Lord against Israel. Thus says the Lord, who stretches out the heavens, lays the foundation of the earth, and forms the spirit of man within him: Zechariah 12:1


YHWH the Lord God is speaking through the mouth of Zechariah the prophet.



He goes on to say in verse 10 -



“And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. Zechariah 12:10



Jesus Christ is YHWH, the Lord God.

His Spirit was in the Old Testament prophets, speaking forth through them.


Of this salvation the prophets have inquired and searched carefully, who prophesied of the grace that would come to you, searching what, or what manner of time, the Spirit of Christ who was in them was indicating when He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.
1 Peter 1:10-11





JLB

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but in Genesis 2:7 it says "And formed YHWH-Elohim the man from the dust of the ground..."

so the actual creator is YHWH, the Father

this is the original, ancient, understanding of Scripture


The Word of God incarnated into Jesus in Judea 2000 years ago, and the Word of God pre-incarnated as the "Angel (Messenger) of YHWH" which carried YHWH's Name as it led the Israelites out of Egypt (Jude 1:5) with the power to forgive sins (Exodus 23:21)

The Word of God = Angel of YHWH = Messenger of the Father

• carries the Father's sacred Name from heaven
• has authority over humans sins on earth

The Father gave His Name to Jesus to carry (John 17:11), but it wasn't natively Jesus' personal possession

The. Father. is. not. the. Son.
The. Word of God. is. not. God Himself.
The. visible immanent Messenger of God on earth. is. not. the. invisible transcendent God Himself in heaven

please acknowledge?

Dkh587 said:

Nehemiah Gordon is an anti-Messiah. He has no authority on God’s name. If you don’t have the Son, you don’t have the Father. Nehemiah has neither.

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how do you know?

Erik Nelson said:

how do you know?

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He denies that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah

Erik Nelson said:

but in Genesis 2:7 it says "And formed YHWH-Elohim the man from the dust of the ground..."

so the actual creator is YHWH, the Father

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I would disagree with what you wrote. The creator is YHWH obviously but YHWH is not the Father.

The visions of YHWH in the Old Testament are of one who has the appearance of a man, that man is seated on the throne.

The Father is invisible and no one has ever seen the Father. Nor has anyone ever heard the Father speak or even known the Father.

Colossians 1:16
For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities, all things have been created through Him and for Him.

Adam and Eve were created through Jesus and for Jesus, they spoke only to Jesus.

YHWH was the preincarnate Christ, the WORD.

1213 said:

Don't think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn't come to destroy, but to fulfill. For most assuredly, I tell you, until heaven and earth pass away, not even one smallest letter or one tiny pen stroke shall in any way pass away from the law, until all things are accomplished. Whoever, therefore, shall break one of these least commandments, and teach others to do so, shall be called least in the Kingdom of Heaven; but whoever shall do and teach them shall be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.
Mat. 5:17-19

I think that means all the commandments God has given in the Bible, also the new one that Jesus declared.

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We can never keep the commandments..that is why we need a Savior ... Jesus kept the commandments for us...

The purpose of the commandments was just that ...they should drive us to our knees in thanksgiving for the one who could keep them for us.. That was their purpose

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

klutedavid said:

I would disagree with what you wrote. The creator is YHWH obviously but YHWH is not the Father.

The visions of YHWH in the Old Testament are of one who has the appearance of a man, that man is seated on the throne.

The Father is invisible and no one has ever seen the Father. Nor has anyone ever heard the Father speak or even known the Father.

Colossians 1:16
For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities, all things have been created through Him and for Him.

Adam and Eve were created through Jesus and for Jesus, they spoke only to Jesus.

YHWH was the preincarnate Christ, the WORD.

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Thank you.... not everyone possesses that knowledge...1Corinthians 8:7

JLB777 said:

Here is your quote that I responded to, from post 393.
Here is what the scripture says -
The God of our fathers raised up Jesus whom you murdered by hanging on a tree. Acts 5:30
Hopefully now your memory has been refreshed and you can see the error of your statement.
JLB

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I see you are good at straining at gnats. If you have to have the last word, by all means fulfill your obsessive compulsive disorder. I added that no Jew PHYSICALLY killed Him right after that post to clarify what I meant...

Dkh587 said:

Yahweh would be more accurate than Yehovah, because there’s no V in Hebrew. That’s a modern letter.

If Yah is the poetic form of Yehovah, wouldn’t it be Yeh? That doesn’t make sense. Also, why use a different form of the name to end the name, when you use different letters to start a name when referencing the same name?

that’s very confusing...

Psalm 68:4, call him by his name, YAH.

It doesn’t make sense to say HALLELUYAH, which means praise YAH, and then turn right around and say his name is YEHovah.

if his name is YEHovah, why not say halleluYEH?

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Because that is not how Hebrew works, now or then...
You would have a better case if you said something like YaHoWeH, but that would not be correct either. In Hebrew the emphasis on the vowel changes depending on where it is in the word. The vowel kamatz of YaH changes to sheva when the word is elongated. The word "gadol" turns into "gedolim" and "YaH" turns into "YeHoVaH". Anytime a theophoric prefix is used in a name it is always "YeHo". In HalleluYaH, the emphasis is on the YaH. YaH has a kamatz while Yahweh uses a patakh. NOT the same thing. The kamatz is used in HalleluYah...