Under Grace
Humble and Repentful
- Jan 28, 2010
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You say there was no intent of murder AND killings were not for personal reasons BUT you provide no proof. The original thread on the killing of Ashraf was to show that no mention is made of muhammad FIRST OBTAINING HIS "ALLAH'S" APPROVAL FOR THE KILLING. You then say he acted in capacity of a "political leader" but this was not his title. His title was "prophet of "allah"" which means he was supposed to act according to "allah's" commands. Perhaps I could lend more examples where there is NO discussion with "allah" before killing....... If so, this could hardly be considered some random killing (ie murder), but a legitimate act of war against an enemy combatant. And as we know, the Prophets of old, especially those who have been tasked with forming a community, were allowed to engage in combat. Just because Isa
didn't engage in combat doesn't mean it's the normative for the Abrahamic religions. Even Christian theologians have adopted policies of just war.
As for the references, I would have to see something more specific to read the original Arabic. "Tabari #45I34532I2I538U" doesn't mean anything to anyone. In general, it can be said that yes, the Prophet did order that certain enemies be killed. However, this was not for any personal reasons, nor did these incidents increase his power (Muslims did not attain sociopolitical dominance until after the Treaty of Hudaibiya, during a two-year armistice when their numbers reached critical mass as a result of effective preaching). Rather, it was done in the capacity of a political leader responsible for the security of an entire community. All of the enemies of the Muslims whom were killed and we know by name were either direct aggressors or responsible for either inciting or lending support to the aggression of others.
Here they seem to enjoy killing...
Ishaq:470 "We attacked them fully armed, swords in hand, cutting through heads and skulls."
Here the prophet is speaking for "allah" and not "allah" speaking to him.
Ishaq:324 "He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion, and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no rivals.'"
Here it is the religion that is important. Not a command from "allah" to fight.
Ishaq:325 "Muslims, fight in Allah's Cause. Stand firm and you will prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and your religion will be victorious."
Here is a classic. muhammad takes revenge on an outspoken woman. Where is the order from his "allah"?
Ishaq: 676 "'You obey a stranger who encourages you to murder for booty. You are greedy men. Is there no honor among you?' Upon hearing those lines Muhammad said, 'Will no one rid me of this woman?' Umayr, a zealous Muslim, decided to execute the Prophet's wishes. That very night he crept into the writer's home while she lay sleeping surrounded by her young children. There was one at her breast. Umayr removed the suckling babe and then plunged his sword into the poet. The next morning in the mosque, Muhammad, who was aware of the assassination, said, 'You have helped Allah and His Apostle.' Umayr said. 'She had five sons; should I feel guilty?' 'No,' the Prophet answered. 'Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.'"
Here muhammad murders people who at first accepted his religion but later rejected it. Why did they reject it you wonder? They knew the religion BETTER THAN ANY MUSLIM ALIVE TODAY but they later rejected it.
Tabari VIII:178
Ishaq:550 "Muhammad ordered that certain men should be assassinated even if they were found behind the curtains of the Ka'aba. Among them was Abdallah bin Sa'd [the Qur'an's one and only scribe]. The reason that Allah's Messenger ordered that he should be slain was because he had become a Muslim and used to write down Qur'an Revelation. Then he apostatized [rejected Islam]."
Here muhammad murders an outspoken BLIND man. Where is the order to kill from his "allah"?
Tabari VII:112
Ishaq:372 "When a blind Jew became aware of the presence of the Messenger and the Muslims he rose and threw dust in their faces, saying, 'Even if you are a prophet, I will not allow you into my garden!' I was told that he took a handful of dirt and said, 'If only I knew that I would not hit anyone else, Muhammad, I would throw it in your face.' Sa'd rushed in and hit him on the head with his bow and split the Jew's head open."
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