Requirement to deny self keeping me from Kingdom

Bob8102

Active Member
Nov 9, 2019
213
121
66
Miami
✟39,620.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
As I wrote in my other post, I have been seeking salvation for ten years. One of the things that stymies me is the requirement to deny oneself. I, so far, just "cannot" seem to bring myself to do this. Just today, I was trying to get saved, repeating certain verses, as I often do. I had thought that I am just not looking beyond myself. I'm tied up in myself.

When seeking salvation, I try to do as little else as possible. But I have to do some things. Just today, after realizing I can't see beyond myself, I was taking care of a necessary task, all the while saying to Jesus, "You say to deny oneself." Because I had to concentrate on the task, I didn't think I was actually getting closer to denying myself; I just kept saying that to Jesus. I had the thought, can I deny myself and get saved while doing this task? But then I realized that even when I have no task to do, and can concentrate 100% on seeking salvation, I STILL do not deny myself and get saved even then. So, of course, while having to concentrate on a task, I'm not going to deny myself and get saved.

I have big tasks to attend to today, and possibly beyond. It has always bothered me, having to do some task, because I cannot concentrate on getting saved while doing it. When concentrating on getting saved, I do various things, such as repeating certain verses, and trying to "give my life to Christ." One verse I tend to repeat, for instance, is "this is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. So, sometimes, i say, "Jesus, I'm a sinner. Save me!" But I know He can't save someone who won't repent.

At other times, I consider and repeat the verse, "God now commands all men everywhere to repent." Then I try to repent, asking Jesus to "take me," because I know I can't do what He wants me to do on my own. But afterwards, I figure, "what if my words do not match what's going on in my heart? What if I say 'take me!" but in my heart I am not really yielding, submitting to the real Jesus? What if in my head I am 'submitting' to an imaginary Jesus?"

For a good while, during my ten year search, I had one or more misconceptions. A friend of mine cleared up one of them. I had the idea that, since people are sinners, God is into tormenting them. It was either become a Christian in this life, and let God torment you unbearably NOW, or don't become a Christian and He will torment you unbearably after death. It was natural to choose delayed torment. But a Christian friend, with whom I have communicated with for most or all of those ten years, cleared up that misconception. Christians may suffer, but God is not punishing them for their sins if they do.

Jesus says, count the cost. While realizing that suffering, persecution might or WILL come, I have THOUGHT I took that into account, then given my life to Christ. But I always doubt, later. I have OCD and this contributes to the problem.

But today, when I realized I could not see beyond myself, I temporarily gave up for the moment. It's like denying self is having to throw all your effort into having to move a huge weight. I just stopped trying to move it this morning, for the time being.

I'm afraid that I have been trying to approach Jesus and the Kingdom of Heaven, all the while having self on the throne. It's as if my number one thing is that Self has to rule. I filter everything, including the gospel, through the filter of self. I'm afraid that that's what's in my heart. Therefore, asking me to repent is like asking me to walk through a brick wall.

It's been a ten year frustration. Self has to get rid of self, and self is totally unwilling to do so. It's like being told to jump over a ten story building or you're going to hell. But you can only jump three inches.

Self has to get rid of self, but self is the Immovable Object.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2PhiloVoid

Sanoy

Well-Known Member
Apr 27, 2017
3,169
1,421
America
✟118,024.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
One becomes a Christian to be made perfect, not to be allowed because they are perfect. All that is required from you is the will and desire to surrender your nature to Christs nature. It is the Holy Spirit who will work out the transformation in your heart, not you alone.

We are not called to lose ourselves, but to fulfill ourselves through the conforming of our nature to His. That doesn't mean losing our personal identity, but fulfilling our identity. Each of us are meant to be stained glass windows through which Christ shines, not kitchen windows. We are to be transparent to light, not empty of individual substance.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: 2PhiloVoid
Upvote 0

Dave L

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 28, 2018
15,549
5,876
USA
✟580,140.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
As I wrote in my other post, I have been seeking salvation for ten years. One of the things that stymies me is the requirement to deny oneself. I, so far, just "cannot" seem to bring myself to do this. Just today, I was trying to get saved, repeating certain verses, as I often do. I had thought that I am just not looking beyond myself. I'm tied up in myself.

When seeking salvation, I try to do as little else as possible. But I have to do some things. Just today, after realizing I can't see beyond myself, I was taking care of a necessary task, all the while saying to Jesus, "You say to deny oneself." Because I had to concentrate on the task, I didn't think I was actually getting closer to denying myself; I just kept saying that to Jesus. I had the thought, can I deny myself and get saved while doing this task? But then I realized that even when I have no task to do, and can concentrate 100% on seeking salvation, I STILL do not deny myself and get saved even then. So, of course, while having to concentrate on a task, I'm not going to deny myself and get saved.

I have big tasks to attend to today, and possibly beyond. It has always bothered me, having to do some task, because I cannot concentrate on getting saved while doing it. When concentrating on getting saved, I do various things, such as repeating certain verses, and trying to "give my life to Christ." One verse I tend to repeat, for instance, is "this is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. So, sometimes, i say, "Jesus, I'm a sinner. Save me!" But I know He can't save someone who won't repent.

At other times, I consider and repeat the verse, "God now commands all men everywhere to repent." Then I try to repent, asking Jesus to "take me," because I know I can't do what He wants me to do on my own. But afterwards, I figure, "what if my words do not match what's going on in my heart? What if I say 'take me!" but in my heart I am not really yielding, submitting to the real Jesus? What if in my head I am 'submitting' to an imaginary Jesus?"

For a good while, during my ten year search, I had one or more misconceptions. A friend of mine cleared up one of them. I had the idea that, since people are sinners, God is into tormenting them. It was either become a Christian in this life, and let God torment you unbearably NOW, or don't become a Christian and He will torment you unbearably after death. It was natural to choose delayed torment. But a Christian friend, with whom I have communicated with for most or all of those ten years, cleared up that misconception. Christians may suffer, but God is not punishing them for their sins if they do.

Jesus says, count the cost. While realizing that suffering, persecution might or WILL come, I have THOUGHT I took that into account, then given my life to Christ. But I always doubt, later. I have OCD and this contributes to the problem.

But today, when I realized I could not see beyond myself, I temporarily gave up for the moment. It's like denying self is having to throw all your effort into having to move a huge weight. I just stopped trying to move it this morning, for the time being.

I'm afraid that I have been trying to approach Jesus and the Kingdom of Heaven, all the while having self on the throne. It's as if my number one thing is that Self has to rule. I filter everything, including the gospel, through the filter of self. I'm afraid that that's what's in my heart. Therefore, asking me to repent is like asking me to walk through a brick wall.

It's been a ten year frustration. Self has to get rid of self, and self is totally unwilling to do so. It's like being told to jump over a ten story building or you're going to hell. But you can only jump three inches.

Self has to get rid of self, but self is the Immovable Object.
I feel sorry for those who were taught that they could push certain buttons, or partake of sacraments, or make decisions in order to experience salvation. And it is good for these to bottom out. Because as Luther found out, it is only in this bottomed out position that salvation occurs.

"First, God has promised certainly His grace to the humbled: that is, to the self-deploring and despairing. But a man cannot be thoroughly humbled, until he comes to know that his salvation is utterly beyond his own powers, counsel, endeavours, will, and works, and absolutely depending on the will, counsel, pleasure, and work of another, that is, of God only. For if, as long as he has any persuasion that he can do even the least thing himself towards his own salvation, he retain a confidence in himself and do not utterly despair in himself, so long he is not humbled before God; but he proposes to himself some place, some time, or some work, whereby he may at length attain unto salvation. But he who hesitates not to depend wholly upon the good-will of God, he totally despairs in himself, chooses nothing for himself, but waits for God to work in him; and such an one, is the nearest unto grace, that he might be saved."

Martin Luther. (n.d.). The Bondage of the Will.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sanoy
Upvote 0

HTacianas

Well-Known Member
Jul 9, 2018
8,520
9,015
Florida
✟325,251.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
As I wrote in my other post, I have been seeking salvation for ten years. One of the things that stymies me is the requirement to deny oneself. I, so far, just "cannot" seem to bring myself to do this. Just today, I was trying to get saved, repeating certain verses, as I often do. I had thought that I am just not looking beyond myself. I'm tied up in myself.

When seeking salvation, I try to do as little else as possible. But I have to do some things. Just today, after realizing I can't see beyond myself, I was taking care of a necessary task, all the while saying to Jesus, "You say to deny oneself." Because I had to concentrate on the task, I didn't think I was actually getting closer to denying myself; I just kept saying that to Jesus. I had the thought, can I deny myself and get saved while doing this task? But then I realized that even when I have no task to do, and can concentrate 100% on seeking salvation, I STILL do not deny myself and get saved even then. So, of course, while having to concentrate on a task, I'm not going to deny myself and get saved.

I have big tasks to attend to today, and possibly beyond. It has always bothered me, having to do some task, because I cannot concentrate on getting saved while doing it. When concentrating on getting saved, I do various things, such as repeating certain verses, and trying to "give my life to Christ." One verse I tend to repeat, for instance, is "this is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. So, sometimes, i say, "Jesus, I'm a sinner. Save me!" But I know He can't save someone who won't repent.

At other times, I consider and repeat the verse, "God now commands all men everywhere to repent." Then I try to repent, asking Jesus to "take me," because I know I can't do what He wants me to do on my own. But afterwards, I figure, "what if my words do not match what's going on in my heart? What if I say 'take me!" but in my heart I am not really yielding, submitting to the real Jesus? What if in my head I am 'submitting' to an imaginary Jesus?"

For a good while, during my ten year search, I had one or more misconceptions. A friend of mine cleared up one of them. I had the idea that, since people are sinners, God is into tormenting them. It was either become a Christian in this life, and let God torment you unbearably NOW, or don't become a Christian and He will torment you unbearably after death. It was natural to choose delayed torment. But a Christian friend, with whom I have communicated with for most or all of those ten years, cleared up that misconception. Christians may suffer, but God is not punishing them for their sins if they do.

Jesus says, count the cost. While realizing that suffering, persecution might or WILL come, I have THOUGHT I took that into account, then given my life to Christ. But I always doubt, later. I have OCD and this contributes to the problem.

But today, when I realized I could not see beyond myself, I temporarily gave up for the moment. It's like denying self is having to throw all your effort into having to move a huge weight. I just stopped trying to move it this morning, for the time being.

I'm afraid that I have been trying to approach Jesus and the Kingdom of Heaven, all the while having self on the throne. It's as if my number one thing is that Self has to rule. I filter everything, including the gospel, through the filter of self. I'm afraid that that's what's in my heart. Therefore, asking me to repent is like asking me to walk through a brick wall.

It's been a ten year frustration. Self has to get rid of self, and self is totally unwilling to do so. It's like being told to jump over a ten story building or you're going to hell. But you can only jump three inches.

Self has to get rid of self, but self is the Immovable Object.

To deny oneself is to give something up. The Church fasts together to exercise that.

What you are describing is, rather than denial of self, is the total denial of self. It's a thing only some are given to do. Monks deny themselves totally, most laymen don't.

Download an Orthodox calendar and participate in the fasts and readings every day. The rest will come.
 
Upvote 0

“Paisios”

Sinner
Site Supporter
Aug 8, 2014
2,876
4,622
55
✟594,142.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
As I wrote in my other post, I have been seeking salvation for ten years. One of the things that stymies me is the requirement to deny oneself. I, so far, just "cannot" seem to bring myself to do this. Just today, I was trying to get saved, repeating certain verses, as I often do. I had thought that I am just not looking beyond myself. I'm tied up in myself.

When seeking salvation, I try to do as little else as possible. But I have to do some things. Just today, after realizing I can't see beyond myself, I was taking care of a necessary task, all the while saying to Jesus, "You say to deny oneself." Because I had to concentrate on the task, I didn't think I was actually getting closer to denying myself; I just kept saying that to Jesus. I had the thought, can I deny myself and get saved while doing this task? But then I realized that even when I have no task to do, and can concentrate 100% on seeking salvation, I STILL do not deny myself and get saved even then. So, of course, while having to concentrate on a task, I'm not going to deny myself and get saved.

I have big tasks to attend to today, and possibly beyond. It has always bothered me, having to do some task, because I cannot concentrate on getting saved while doing it. When concentrating on getting saved, I do various things, such as repeating certain verses, and trying to "give my life to Christ." One verse I tend to repeat, for instance, is "this is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners. So, sometimes, i say, "Jesus, I'm a sinner. Save me!" But I know He can't save someone who won't repent.

At other times, I consider and repeat the verse, "God now commands all men everywhere to repent." Then I try to repent, asking Jesus to "take me," because I know I can't do what He wants me to do on my own. But afterwards, I figure, "what if my words do not match what's going on in my heart? What if I say 'take me!" but in my heart I am not really yielding, submitting to the real Jesus? What if in my head I am 'submitting' to an imaginary Jesus?"

For a good while, during my ten year search, I had one or more misconceptions. A friend of mine cleared up one of them. I had the idea that, since people are sinners, God is into tormenting them. It was either become a Christian in this life, and let God torment you unbearably NOW, or don't become a Christian and He will torment you unbearably after death. It was natural to choose delayed torment. But a Christian friend, with whom I have communicated with for most or all of those ten years, cleared up that misconception. Christians may suffer, but God is not punishing them for their sins if they do.

Jesus says, count the cost. While realizing that suffering, persecution might or WILL come, I have THOUGHT I took that into account, then given my life to Christ. But I always doubt, later. I have OCD and this contributes to the problem.

But today, when I realized I could not see beyond myself, I temporarily gave up for the moment. It's like denying self is having to throw all your effort into having to move a huge weight. I just stopped trying to move it this morning, for the time being.

I'm afraid that I have been trying to approach Jesus and the Kingdom of Heaven, all the while having self on the throne. It's as if my number one thing is that Self has to rule. I filter everything, including the gospel, through the filter of self. I'm afraid that that's what's in my heart. Therefore, asking me to repent is like asking me to walk through a brick wall.

It's been a ten year frustration. Self has to get rid of self, and self is totally unwilling to do so. It's like being told to jump over a ten story building or you're going to hell. But you can only jump three inches.

Self has to get rid of self, but self is the Immovable Object.

I have heard that denying self involves turning your vision and your service outwards, first to God, then to your neighbor. Love God and love your neighbor, as much as possible in all that you do. In doing that, your thoughts and actions will turn away from yourself and thus denial of self.

(Or so I’ve been told. How would I know, selfish sinner that I am?)
 
Upvote 0

Bob8102

Active Member
Nov 9, 2019
213
121
66
Miami
✟39,620.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Another thing I've tried....Jesus gives the parable of the tax collector and the Pharisee. The Pharisee said 'I tithe, I fast...' etc. The tax collector beat his breast and said, "God, be merciful to me a sinner!" Jesus said the tax collector "went down to his house justified." I've sincerely cried out the same thing. Later, I think, maybe I am not repenting. God can't have mercy on and save one who doesn't repent.
 
Upvote 0