Carl Emerson
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I don't think that is what it means.
I think it means that only Jesus has descended and only Jesus has ascended.
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When did Christ descend from heaven then ascend back to heaven before His crucifiction?
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I don't think that is what it means.
I think it means that only Jesus has descended and only Jesus has ascended.
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“Six days later Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John his brother, and led them up on a high mountain by themselves. And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light. And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. Peter said to Jesus, "Lord, it is good for us to be here; if You wish, I will make three tabernacles here, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah."”
Matthew 17:1-4 NASB
“Some eight days after these sayings, He took along Peter and John and James, and went up on the mountain to pray. And while He was praying, the appearance of His face became different, and His clothing became white and gleaming. And behold, two men were talking with Him; and they were Moses and Elijah, who, appearing in glory, were speaking of His departure which He was about to accomplish at Jerusalem. Now Peter and his companions had been overcome with sleep; but when they were fully awake, they saw His glory and the two men standing with Him. And as these were leaving Him, Peter said to Jesus, "Master, it is good for us to be here; let us make three tabernacles: one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah"-not realizing what he was saying. While he was saying this, a cloud formed and began to overshadow them; and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!" And when the voice had spoken, Jesus was found alone. And they kept silent, and reported to no one in those days any of the things which they had seen.”
Luke 9:28-36 NASB
“Six days later, Jesus took with Him Peter and James and John, and brought them up on a high mountain by themselves. And He was transfigured before them; and His garments became radiant and exceedingly white, as no launderer on earth can whiten them. Elijah appeared to them along with Moses; and they were talking with Jesus. Peter said to Jesus, "Rabbi, it is good for us to be here; let us make three tabernacles, one for You, and one for Moses, and one for Elijah." For he did not know what to answer; for they became terrified. Then a cloud formed, overshadowing them, and a voice came out of the cloud, "This is My beloved Son, listen to Him!" All at once they looked around and saw no one with them anymore, except Jesus alone. As they were coming down from the mountain, He gave them orders not to relate to anyone what they had seen, until the Son of Man rose from the dead.”
Mark 9:2-9 NASB
I don’t see any mention of them going to heaven to talk and angels have been coming down from heaven giving messages since creation.
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Or as One who was like THE FATHER...
As Exodus 6:2-3 reads, that One appeared to them "as God Almighty" but as for His "name" or His, or that One's, "true identity" (as the Holy Spirit) He, or that One, or that, was not known to them (at that time), etc...
Jesus revealed it/Him (or that One) as the Holy Spirit, or the Spirit of God The Father, for before that or Him (Jesus) this/that was not known (yet or at that time)...
God Bless!
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The Israelites being monotheists would assume anyone claiming to be God would be God The Father.
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Carl Emerson
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Albion
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Not "like." The verses don't leave any room for such a notion. In particular, in that verse from Genesis, it says that he appeared AS God, meaning that God presented himself and was seen to BE God, not something else. What they did not connect that with was THE NAME JEHOVAH.
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I’m simply examining evidence. I’m not trying to form any doctrines here just asking for help in search of evidence.
Not sure why you have to take such a condescending tone my friend.
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As for Jesus, He was born of The Father, (came from Him), by or through the Holy Spirit, or the Spirit (form) of God The Father (or Jehovah) who impregnated His (Jesus) mother Mary... The Son of Man who was also the/a Son of God... The first one to be that way, etc... Except for Adam in the very beginning, etc...
Jesus never claimed to literally be The Father, but that One's Son, by whom us seeing could see or know the Father, but not literally the Father, but came to make Him (The Father God) known to us, etc, by the Holy Spirit, etc... Through and by Himself (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit in Him (Jesus), but not literally Him (the Father God), (Jesus), etc...
Jesus was in the beginning with the Father God and the Holy Spirit, etc, but was not literally Him or Them (The Father God, or the Holy Spirit)... They are three distinct persons or entities, all three each God, and each equally God, but in various forms that were not always each equal to each other or one another in every single way, etc... That came later on, etc...
God Bless!
Jesus never claimed to literally be The Father, but that One's Son, by whom us seeing could see or know the Father, but not literally the Father, but came to make Him (The Father God) known to us, etc, by the Holy Spirit, etc... Through and by Himself (Jesus) and the Holy Spirit in Him (Jesus), but not literally Him (the Father God), (Jesus), etc...
Jesus was in the beginning with the Father God and the Holy Spirit, etc, but was not literally Him or Them (The Father God, or the Holy Spirit)... They are three distinct persons or entities, all three each God, and each equally God, but in various forms that were not always each equal to each other or one another in every single way, etc... That came later on, etc...
God Bless!
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It says "appeared as", but "whose true identity (name) was not known to them" (at that time, etc)...
(In Hebrew a "name" was the same thing as one's "identity", it "defined" them, etc) (and "that" (it says) was not known to them when He "appeared as" God Almighty to them, etc)...
God Bless!
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Bruce Leiter
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He descended when he, the second Person of God, became Jesus as he was conceived in Mary's womb by the Holy Spirit.
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Jesus is God, but God in a particular form...
Are the "forms" of God (3) were, or were they all each always equal always and the exact same in every single way always...? Or were there some maybe minor differences at some points in time, or at all ever, etc...?
Either way, Jesus "form" can show us tangibly, in this world or this reality or this existence, who the other two are, etc, part of what makes Him God, etc...
You cannot see, smell, taste or touch "Spirit", and you certainly cannot "The Father God" either, but we can with Jesus, which is part of what makes Him God and how He shows us the other two, etc...
Even in Heaven, we will still be dependent upon our "bodies" and our senses to us what we know, or can know, and that will always be Christ, etc, whether here, or in the life after here, etc...
God Bless!
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That’s exactly my point. They wouldn’t have known the difference between God The Father and Jesus who is also God.
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No, it means, He appeared "as God" (Almighty) ("as" the number one and absolute Highest Himself literally) to them, but whose true identity (name) (or who and what He really was) was unknown (to them) and still remained to be seen (at that time, etc)... (and was only able to be revealed at a later time) (only in and with Christ, etc)...
The "Trinity" was not to be explained or gone into in the OT, but would only come with, and could only come with, "Christ", etc... It could not be explained back then in the OT (yet)...
So the Holy Spirit appeared as the Father God to them, until Christ came and it could be explained (to them) (and to us), etc...
God Bless!
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