Which Impeachment charge to use?

wing2000 · Nov 12, 2019

Albion said:
Not according to the Constitution. And if the House majority has any hopes of the Senate taking up the action decided upon by the House, they had better find something that sounds like a crime. They are very much aware of this.

The Constitution specifically task the legislative branch with the impeachment process. The only role the Judiciary has is the Chief Justice presiding over the Senate trial.

Three articles of impeachment were submitted by the Judiciary Committee prior to Nixon resigning.

Watergate Articles Of Impeachment

Albion · Nov 12, 2019

wing2000 said:
Three articles of impeachment were submitted by the Judiciary Committee prior to Nixon resigning.

Watergate Articles Of Impeachment

By bolding that word, I think you mean to emphasize that point. However, it misses the point of the thread.

The Democrats who are leading the effort are debating how to market the impeachment, how to make it seem legitimate. What claim should they go with, having no actual impeachable offense to lay at the president's feet? It is not me who is wrestling with this problem; it's the people who are in charge of the impeachment effort themselves!

So if they had three bona fide crimes, then three would be appropriate. But when it's actually none, then what allegation are they going to make and vote on?

They have to have something...and it has to at least sound good. That's the origin of the poll which I meant only to be a pleasant little exercise for us here, not a segue into one more battle. :sigh:

wing2000 · Nov 12, 2019

Albion said:
By bolding that word, I think you mean to emphasize that point. However, it misses the point of the thread.

The Democrats who are leading the effort are debating how to market the impeachment, how to make it seem legitimate. What claim should they go with, having no actual impeachable offense to lay at the president's feet? It is not me who is wrestling with this problem; it's the people who are in charge of the impeachment effort themselves!

So if they had three bona fide crimes, then three would be appropriate. But when it's actually none, then what allegation are they going to make and vote on?

They have to have something...and it has to at least sound good. That's the origin of the poll which I meant only to be a pleasant little exercise for us here, not a segue into one more battle.

Oh I see your point. And I reject your premise.

Albion · Nov 12, 2019

miamited said:
Hi again albion,

I expect that by now you've decided that all of my posts are 'off topic' and, therefore, undeserving of any response from you.

That's nonsense. I just asked that you stay on topic.

As has been pointed out, there are often several articles of impeachment brought against an elected official...Similarly, in an impeachment, an article of impeachment can be written for each of several possible infractions and such a practice is not usually, as you claim, an effort to weaken a position, but rather to strengthen said position.

I didn't say that.

Albion · Nov 12, 2019

Interestingly enough, the answer "abuse of power" won the poll (as of this time), and that was the most probable choice according to Byron York, writing for the Washington Examiner, from which the story about the discussion being held among leaders of the impeachment effort came.

Also interesting is the fact that "abuse of power" is the vaguest, least specific, of all the choices under consideration.

dqhall · Nov 12, 2019

Kentonio said:
What he did could be seen as either bribery or extortion. Personally I think it’s extortion considering it was a demand made under duress. Obstruction is a completely separate charge that he should also be impeached on multiple counts of, so this should really have been a multiple choice poll.

Also you missed out a number of other crimes he’s committed such as witness intimidation.

New York is investigating him for tax evasion.
Newly uncovered tax documents show Trump kept '2 sets of books' and may have committed financial fraud

durangodawood · Nov 12, 2019

Albion said:
....Also interesting is the fact that "abuse of power" is the vaguest, least specific, of all the choices under consideration.

Like I said elsewhere, if you can find a pithy phrase for "soliciting foreign assistance in a US election, and holding up legally mandated military aid as leverage"..... I'm all ears.

miamited · Nov 12, 2019

Hi albion,

I posted: ...an article of impeachment can be written for each of several possible infractions and such a practice is not usually, as you claim, an effort to weaken a position, but rather to strengthen said position.

You responded: an article of impeachment can be written for each of several possible infractions and such a practice is not usually, as you claim, an effort to weaken a position, but rather to strengthen said position. (bolding the part that you intended to address)

You addressed that bolded part:

Albion said:
I didn't say that.

So, I had to go back and do your work for you:

Albion said:
I suppose that a shotgun approach with a batch of complaints would weaken, not strengthen, the credibility of any impeachment resolution coming from the committee.

(bolding mine)

Sadly, I find myself in these discussions with those who support the current administration, to often be with people who can't seem to keep up and make logical connections. Look, if you want to support President Trump in his lying and extortion and ill-mannered commentary, fine. I don't believe that God has called me to be supportive of such a person. I understand that when Paul wrote to the Romans that we were not only going to do wicked things, but give approval of those who did them...that he was referencing activities and practices just such as we're seeing today in this administration.

I'm not going to stick my neck out and say that I support someone who constantly lies and makes up his own facts to suit his position. Truth means a little more to me than that and the fact that others use truth is also important to me in the things that I will support that others do.

Being civil to others and treating them and speaking to and about them in a civil and well-mannered way is also important to me. I think it would be hard for someone who believes in such a principle to tell their children, "Look, you shouldn't call people derogatory names and make fun of them. However, it is ok that the leader of our nation does it." Somehow that just rings of such deep hypocrisy to me.

I understand that the reason Donald Trump shut down his charitable foundation is that he made a deal with the court that he would do that if they would drop their investigation. I'm not going to be supportive of someone that I know uses a charitable foundation in the way that he does. I'm just not going to do that. You, however, are free to.

There are just far too many moral failures that our current president finds to be just the way that things are done, that I'm unable to support. I'm sorry. Since you can't actually change history, I can assure you that you can write all the posts you want trying to get those who are against the president to 'see' how they are wrong, but I'm not. I know that I'm not. I will not support anyone, in any position of public trust, and if I have anything to do about it anyone in private business, that so easily practices such deceptive and dishonest ways.

So, I don't really care what or how many articles of impeachment are brought against the president, or if any articles of impeachment are brought against the president...I'm not going to support the man. I believe that for the benefit of our nation and our people, the sooner we can get this clown out of office, the better off we'll all be. That's what I believe about Donald J. Trump. He is PT Barnum on steroids.

God bless,
In Christ, ted

DaisyDay · Nov 12, 2019

Albion said:
By bolding that word, I think you mean to emphasize that point. However, it misses the point of the thread.

The Democrats who are leading the effort are debating how to market the impeachment, how to make it seem legitimate. What claim should they go with, having no actual impeachable offense to lay at the president's feet? It is not me who is wrestling with this problem; it's the people who are in charge of the impeachment effort themselves!

So if they had three bona fide crimes, then three would be appropriate. But when it's actually none, then what allegation are they going to make and vote on?

They have to have something...and it has to at least sound good. That's the origin of the poll which I meant only to be a pleasant little exercise for us here, not a segue into one more battle.

Are you even aware that Schiff's Intelligence Committee is only one of several House committees holding impeachment inquiries? So far, this one has got all the thunder, but the other ones are chugging away. Who knows what the Ways and Means Committee will find out once New York State forwards Donald's tax returns to it.

Basil the Great · Nov 12, 2019

Maybe the House Dems will file multiple charges, in the hope that the more counts that pass, the more likely that public opinion might pressure the Senate?

cow451 · Nov 12, 2019

Albion said:
Democrats involved in the Impeachment process reportedly are having a hard time deciding what to say the President did that is impeachable in the absence of any actual crime. As a result some of the suggestions are being tested out. The poll here lists alternatives that they have debated using. Which do you think would be the most saleable?

You forgot “All the above”.

GodLovesCats · Nov 12, 2019

Basil the Great said:
Maybe the House Dems will file multiple charges, in the hope that the more counts that pass, the more likely that public opinion might pressure the Senate?

It is not just about how many, but what charges are the articles of impeachment.

Albion · Nov 12, 2019

Basil the Great said:
Maybe the House Dems will file multiple charges, in the hope that the more counts that pass, the more likely that public opinion might pressure the Senate?

Initially, I didn't think along those lines, but I suppose it's possible.

Thanks for your input.

JohnAshton · Nov 12, 2019

Bribery
Obstruction
Abuse of Power

Sparagmos · Nov 13, 2019

Albion said:
The Democrats who are leading the effort are debating how to market the impeachment, how to make it seem legitimate

I’ll ask again, what is your source for this claim?

KCfromNC · Nov 13, 2019

Bobber said:
I think the Dems will go with abuse of power but the question will be asked if they're not the ones who are rightly guilty of doing that.

Yeah, the right-wing propaganda hasn't seemed to come up with an actual legitimate explanation of Donald's actions, so no surprise it would continue to try and distract rather than address what's actually going on.

I mean, given the polling it hasn't exactly worked well so far. But what other choice is there? It isn't as if the testimony or facts help Donald's case.

KCfromNC · Nov 13, 2019

Albion said:
The Democrats who are leading the effort are debating how to market the impeachment, how to make it seem legitimate.

Yep. Their tactic so far seems to be to have Donald's employees testify he broke the law.

Threads like these, with the implication that there needs to be a lot of spin and marketing to convince people that Donald did break the law seem to just be an attempt to distract from the reality of the situation.

KCfromNC · Nov 13, 2019

JohnAshton said:
Bribery

Obstruction

Abuse of Power

Does witness intimidation fit under #2, or is that a separate count?

Bobber · Nov 13, 2019

KCfromNC said:
Yeah, the right-wing propaganda hasn't seemed to come up with an actual legitimate explanation of Donald's actions, so no surprise it would continue to try and distract rather than address what's actually going on.

Sorry but I'd say your strong assertions above doesn't mean you're correct.

KCfromNC · Nov 13, 2019

Bobber said:
Sorry but I'd say your strong assertions above doesn't mean you're correct.

It's the lack of legitimate explanations for Donald's actions that makes me correct in pointing out that the far right talking points are attempts at distractions rather than addressing the facts at hand.

Which Impeachment charge to use?

Which charge would most be the most effective in sounding criminal?

Bribery

Extortion

Obstruction

Dereliction of Duty

Abuse of Power

Other

E pluribus unum

Facilitator

E pluribus unum

Facilitator

Facilitator

Well-Known Member

Dis Member

Ted

I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State

Well-Known Member

Standing with Ukraine.

Well-Known Member

Facilitator

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Regular Member

Well-Known Member

Regular Member

Similar threads