Call transcript already Exonerates Trump

rambot said:

Wow. No.
He recognized the mindless, uncritical rabble that was following him at the time.

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You're right about that because his actual statement was...

"They say I have the most loyal people -- did you ever see that? -- where I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters," Trump said, illustrating his point by pulling his fingers into a gun shape. "Okay? It's like incredible." (emphasis added)

Source: Donald Trump: They say I could ‘shoot somebody’ and still have support

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:

You are the only one talking about Shokin.
FLASHBACK, 2018: Joe Biden Brags At CFR Meeting About Withholding Aid To Ukraine To Force Firing Of Prosecutor!

So what you are saying is that Joe must have been lying when he was bragging about getting a Ukrainian prosecutor fired by threatening to withhold federal funding.

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The United States government had concerns about corruption in the Attorney General's office in the Ukraine (haven't heard ANYONE contradict that as a fact at the time) so they put pressure on the government to fire Shokin.
There is 0 demonstrable or other evidence that it was to protect his son. And the tactic you use of misquoting your appointment is smacks of a desperate argument

Boy, you are being as obtuse as a liberal.

Aldebaran said:

His statement was, ""I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK? It's, like, incredible."
The idea was that he was doing well and had a solid base of voters behind him.

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Are you trying to convince yourself?

And, Trump would be getting away with murder with His supporters - as president, and given his track record with how he handles law, it is debatable whether or not he would actually go to prison for it. But, his god-like perfect status to his base was always the implication; no real citizen/patriot of the US would allow him to shoot someone and get away with it.


I can believe you are ignoring the message Trump is sending with that quote:

rambot said:

The United States government had concerns about corruption in the Attorney General's office in the Ukraine (haven't heard ANYONE contradict that as a fact at the time) so they put pressure on the government to fire Shokin.
There is 0 demonstrable or other evidence that it was to protect his son. And the tactic you use of misquoting your appointment is smacks of a desperate argument

Boy, you are being as obtuse as a liberal.

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Misquoting? I provided a citation.

Bobber said:

Sorry but that's nonsense! If a rich business person has only motivation to increase their position of wealth the last thing you'd do is become a politician which would compromise about half of your profits.

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That assumes that Trump is doing nearly as well as he claims. What we've seen proof of is that he lost more money than any other American in the 80s, and by the 90s, major US banks stopped loaning to him. We know that he inflates his asset valuation when he applies for a loan, and deflates those same assets when he files his taxes.

He's been using taxpayer dollars to fund his businesses since he entered office. It's nonsense to believe that becoming a politician would compromise his profits, and even if it somehow did, that "half" figure is pure rubbish. Most politicians (at least in the US) leave office with more wealth than they enter, including the ones that were already rich.

My sense is that he has significant debt outside of the US (he's the self-proclaimed "King of Debt"), and that the Presidency was a way for him to get our of that debt.

ChristianForCats said:

No, Trump refuses to reveal his tax returns because he does not pay taxes. He said so during a debate in 2016: "I don't pay taxes because I am smart."

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That's not a contradiction of Cow's claims. I think you're right that he doesn't pay taxes. I think he somehow manages to put forth business losses year after year (where does the funding keep coming from?) so he doesn't pay taxes.

Aldebaran said:

The reason he doesn't release them is most likely because the MSM will nitpick and each and every little thing they can find to make it look as if there's something wrong about it. Trump had been a business man for a long time, and therefore there would be much to work with. Seeing how the Press and political opponents have lied about and twisted things he has done and said, why would he want to give them more material to work with that can be misconstrued in any way an opponent can try to use to gain an advantage? They've already done it with a simple phone call. Imagine what could be done with years of tax returns of a businessman.

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Right on! Like the MSM lied and twisted Trump's claim about "I started with a small loan of $1 million" into some sort of lie, simply because he was given over $400 million from his father, and not just some "small $1 million loan" like he claims".

Oh, wait, that would make Trump a liar(which, of course, he is), not the MSM. I guess I need to find another example.

rjs330 said:

He is acting as a US citizen that is not required to release his tax returns. It's none of your business.

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He's certainly not acting like a President that, as a candidate, promised to release his tax returns.

What's even funnier is how his supporters try claim that he's keeping all of his promises. What a joke.

Bobber said:

Well first let's keep things clear here based on the article. For John Kennedy to say there may have been quid pro quo isn't exactly the same declaration as yes there was that taking place. It's an argument which means to say even if there was A, B or C is also true.

So are you going to impeach a President on a "may have been" or a speculative idea?

As Cruz pointed out Q-P-Q it's not even illegal so you don't even have to defend yourself against that.

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No, I'm saying that we are at a point where the Democrats will be holding public hearings, the testimony will be out in the open, and we'll be able to judge for ourselves -- and will hopefully know the facts.

(° ͡ ͜ ͡ʖ ͡ °) (ᵔᴥᵔʋ) said:

Misquoting? I provided a citation.

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Yes. And just like a liberal, you misquoted your source.

whatbogsends said:

That assumes that Trump is doing nearly as well as he claims. What we've seen proof of is that he lost more money than any other American in the 80s, and by the 90s, major US banks stopped loaning to him. We know that he inflates his asset valuation when he applies for a loan, and deflates those same assets when he files his taxes.

He's been using taxpayer dollars to fund his businesses since he entered office. It's nonsense to believe that becoming a politician would compromise his profits, and even if it somehow did, that "half" figure is pure rubbish. Most politicians (at least in the US) leave office with more wealth than they enter, including the ones that were already rich.

My sense is that he has significant debt outside of the US (he's the self-proclaimed "King of Debt"), and that the Presidency was a way for him to get our of that debt.

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He's right that for MOST people becoming a polician would be an expense. But in America as long as you give the appearance of success you will be enamoured by superficial, simple people who don't care about facts and evidence.

You know people like Liberals who have been in "bliss" since Trump became president.

Aldebaran said:

His statement was, ""I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK? It's, like, incredible."
The idea was that he was doing well and had a solid base of voters behind him.

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Kaon said:

Are you trying to convince yourself?

And, Trump would be getting away with murder with His supporters - as president, and given his track record with how he handles law, it is debatable whether or not he would actually go to prison for it. But, his god-like perfect status to his base was always the implication; no real citizen/patriot of the US would allow him to shoot someone and get away with it.


I can believe you are ignoring the message Trump is sending with that quote:

"My base is so loyal to me that I can commit murder in one of the most populated areas of the world, and they would still support me as a murderer"
​

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Aldebaran said:

That's only if you take the statements as literal.

I'm not interested in an "Adam Shiff-style" rewrite when the actual statement can be readily found and quoted.​

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Funny that you should mention taking that statement literally because Trump's lawyer last Wed, said something like that in his argument in the NY court where he is fighting against handing over his tax returns.
It's also funny that literally every news site for three google pages worth are reporting this story but not Fox.

Judges from a three-member panel of the 2nd US Circuit Court of Appeals in downtown Manhattan challenged Trump's private attorney on key elements of his argument, primarily that the President enjoys absolute immunity from all criminal investigations while in office.

Asked by federal Judge Denny Chin about the limits of presidential immunity, and "the Fifth Avenue example," Trump attorney William Consovoy argued that local authorities in New York City could not prosecute the sitting president even if he shot someone in the street.
https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/10/23/po...n-appeal/index.html?r=https://www.google.com/

Trump couldn't be prosecuted if he shot someone on Fifth Avenue, lawyer claims

Aldebaran said:

You're jumping to a conclusion by assuming that, and it tends to be what the MSM has been doing in regards to pretty much everything on this subject. However, doing research on the purpose and meaning of ellipses shows us what the truth of the matter is.

This does not indicate that Trump was attempting to cover anything up. But those who are opposed to Trump and want to say/hear anything that can be said against him are going to follow that narrative.

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LOL So what if there are only three ellipses? You don't know how many words, phrases, or sentences are omitted by any of them. One reason for my early conclusion is they are all in a "The President" paragraph (which means you can't blame it on people not knowing Russian or anything Zelensky said).

Thanks for the link.

Hank77 said:

Funny that you should mention taking that statement literally because Trump's lawyer last Wed, said something like that in his argument in the NY court where he is fighting against handing over his tax returns.
It's also funny that literally every news site for three google pages worth are reporting this story but not Fox.

Judges from a three-member panel of the 2nd US Circuit Court of Appeals in downtown Manhattan challenged Trump's private attorney on key elements of his argument, primarily that the President enjoys absolute immunity from all criminal investigations while in office.

Asked by federal Judge Denny Chin about the limits of presidential immunity, and "the Fifth Avenue example," Trump attorney William Consovoy argued that local authorities in New York City could not prosecute the sitting president even if he shot someone in the street.
https://www-m.cnn.com/2019/10/23/politics/trump-tax-return-appeal/index.html?r=https://www.google.com/

Trump couldn't be prosecuted if he shot someone on Fifth Avenue, lawyer claims

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We would like to think Trump won't actually test his statement in real life. But let's be serious: Trump said more about his supporters than he did any criminal activity he would actually commit with that 5th avenue comment.

Aldebaran said:

That's only if you take the statements as literal.

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If you take it figuratively it should still be an insult: "My base is so stupid that they would follow me even if I committed a crime in front of tens of thousands of witnesses. I can do no wrong in their eyes."

You don't see that? What would you do if Obama said what Trump said?



Because you are being purposefully ignorant. You aren't stupid - I know that. You are choosing to ignore what is going on. That is why I usually don't even respond to you, because I know you know what you are doing. I am not sure if you are paid to do this, or if you actually believe what you are saying on these forums. I hope you are getting paid either way, because you are devout.

Kaon said:

If you take it figuratively it should still be an insult: "My base is so stupid that they would follow me even if I committed a crime in front of tens of thousands of witnesses. I can do no wrong in their eyes."

You don't see that? What would you do if Obama said what Trump said?

​

Because you are being purposefully ignorant. You aren't stupid - I know that. You are choosing to ignore what is going on. That is why I usually don't even respond to you, because I know you know what you are doing. I am not sure if you are paid to do this, or if you actually believe what you are saying on these forums. I hope you are getting paid either way, because you are devout.

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I suspect he's even shown us the strategy he'd use. First, he'd deny that he'd done it -- regardless of how many witnesses or if there were cameras. Then, he'd call out the witnesses, try to discredit them as "deep state" or anti-Trumpists. Next, he'd admit he did it but that the person was bad, was going to do something worse, and needed to be stopped before he could do it -- that Trump was a hero for doing it. And last, he'd maintain the mantra that he did it, but there was absolutely nothing wrong with it, it was a "perfect killing."

SimplyMe said:

I suspect he's even shown us the strategy he'd use. First, he'd deny that he'd done it -- regardless of how many witnesses or if there were cameras. Then, he'd call out the witnesses, try to discredit them as "deep state" or anti-Trumpists. Next, he'd admit he did it but that the person was bad, was going to do something worse, and needed to be stopped before he could do it -- that Trump was a hero for doing it. And last, he'd maintain the mantra that he did it, but there was absolutely nothing wrong with it, it was a "perfect killing."

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This should be hyperbole; instead, it simply is.

Kaon said:

This should be hyperbole; instead, it simply is.

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The key to it is the speed. He can’t allow his supporters to spend too much time dwelling on the basic facts so he has to make these fast, incremental moves to control the narrative. It’s a classic sales technique which is why he’s so good at it. People won’t accept the entire distance between start and finish position in one leap, but they will take small steps, and once they've started walking it becomes much easier to keep walking than to stop, especially when they're part of a crowd.

If I could ask one thing of Republican Trump supporters it would be that just one time they ignore Trump’s responses to an accusation and just carefully consider the facts without the bluster. I don’t think they’re immoral people at all, but once you get swept up in a movement, it’s very difficult to maintain critical thinking. Especially if your friends and family are part of it too.