Investigating WHO God has chosen and WHY

redleghunter · Nov 3, 2019

renniks said:
If we really make choices then Calvinism is wrong. Because it only allows for the illusion of choice.

I just made a choice to type here a response. We obviously have choices. What you fail to acknowledge is the choices we make are influenced by either being a child of God or a child of wrath.

redleghunter · Nov 3, 2019

Steven Beck said:
"No Calvinists take the Scriptures as written."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah right. Calvinists twist scripture to suit their narrative. Have you ever done any history?
You do know who John Calvin is? An authoritarian and unrepentant murderer. Got out debated so had his adversary burnt at a stake. Bad tree, bad fruit.

Was there an argument somewhere in that post?

Steven Beck · Nov 3, 2019

redleghunter said:
It’s according to His will and purpose. Period. There’s nothing that says foreknowledge is linked to any decision we make.

We know that God loved us first.

We know God chose Abraham and not some guy named Omar.

We know God chose Jacob over Esau before either of them did a thing.

God has revealed He is Sovereign over His Creation and He has a plan. A plan before He even created anything or anyone. That of course goes against everything our fallen nature of the knowledge of good and evil can stomach. A Glorious, All Powerful God Who does everything according to His will and purpose.

You are confusing earthly purpose which has nothing to do with salvation. God's general plan is everyone is to be saved although we all know that isn't happening. His earthly purposes for people are to help facilitate the general plan.

BCsenior · Nov 3, 2019

redleghunter said:
Now if God truly chooses us by looking into the future at some decision we make,
then it would be “post-destination” and not Predestination.

Cannot God predestine people according to His foreknowledge?

redleghunter · Nov 3, 2019

renniks said:
Chooses what? That those that are in Christ Wii be saved. Not a choice about individual salvation.
"In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to put our hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. 13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal the promised Holy Spirit,

You left this part out:

Ephesians 1: NASB

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms. 4For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love 5He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the Beloved One.

BCsenior · Nov 3, 2019

Steven Beck said:
God's general plan is everyone is to be saved although we all know that isn't happening.
His earthly purposes for people are to help facilitate the general plan.

God is NOT desiring that any should perish.
God desires than NONE should perish.
But, because of who some people are (or choose to be),
they are too proud to be willing to confess and repent of their sins!
Thus, IMO, they are rejected from receiving God's grace.
All before the foundation of the world.

redleghunter · Nov 3, 2019

Steven Beck said:
You are confusing earthly purpose which has nothing to do with salvation. God's general plan is everyone is to be saved although we all know that isn't happening. His earthly purposes for people are to help facilitate the general plan.

On the contrary, God’s plan was before Creation. See Ephesians 1. For the Good pleasure of His will.

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms. 4For He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love 5He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will, 6to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the Beloved One.

Steven Beck · Nov 3, 2019

BCsenior said:
God is NOT desiring that any should perish.
God desires than NONE should perish.
But, because of who some people are (or choose to be),
they are too proud to be willing to repent of their sins!
Thus, IMO, they are rejected from receiving God's grace.

Yeah so those people CHOOSE not to repent just as some people CHOOSE to repent. So in your own words there is NO ELECTION.

BCsenior · Nov 3, 2019

redleghunter said:
You left this part out: Ephesians 1:3-6 NASB

You left this part out: Ephesians 1:1 NASB
Paul was writing ONLY to "the faithful" believers in Ephesus!
Not to the unfaithful ones in the pews!

They had pews back then ... they were stone benches.
And they laid their heads on the laps of the wenches.
Everyone says the NT churches were better than ours!

aiki · Nov 3, 2019

www.soteriology.com - Traditionalism
www.reasonablefaith.org - Molinism

BCsenior · Nov 3, 2019

Steven Beck said:
So in your own words there is NO ELECTION.

God has His reasons for WHOM He elects.
Please go back to square one and figure out what people are saying.

redleghunter · Nov 3, 2019

BCsenior said:
Cannot God predestine people according to His foreknowledge?

Of course. However taking the giant leap that God uses His Omniscience of people coming to faith as the trigger to predestine them is nowhere taught in Scriptures. We do know God chooses according to His will and purpose. That is actually in Scriptures.

Some can’t handle this truth of a Sovereign God Who chooses not according to the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil but of the Tree of Life.

This is why we have fear of the Lord.

redleghunter · Nov 3, 2019

BCsenior said:
God is NOT desiring that any should perish.
God desires than NONE should perish.
But, because of who some people are (or choose to be),
they are too proud to be willing to confess and repent of their sins!
Thus, IMO, they are rejected from receiving God's grace.
All before the foundation of the world.

Jesus gave us the parable of soils or sower. Only one soil could receive the seed which produced an abundance.

How many were sitting there listening and saying “how unfair! What about the other soils!”

Jesus taught some have ears to hear and eyes to see and some don’t. Only God can open the ears and open the eyes.

redleghunter · Nov 3, 2019

Steven Beck said:
Yeah so those people CHOOSE not to repent just as some people CHOOSE to repent. So in your own words there is NO ELECTION.

There is election. Those who are elect come to faith and repent. That’s also in Ephesians 1.

redleghunter · Nov 3, 2019

BCsenior said:
You left this part out: Ephesians 1:1 NASB
Paul was writing ONLY to "the faithful" believers in Ephesus!
Not to the unfaithful ones in the pews!

They had pews back then ... they were stone benches.
And they laid their heads on the laps of the wenches.
Everyone says the NT churches were better than ours!

Yes it is quite plausible there were those who were not elect on the stone benches.

renniks · Nov 3, 2019

Dave L said:
Has it occured to you that even God does not have a free will?

Who is binding God's will?

renniks · Nov 3, 2019

Dave L said:
Can God fail? Then things are just as he wanted.

Not according to God. He spends a whole lot of time telling us that what we do isn't what he wants.

renniks · Nov 3, 2019

Su

redleghunter said:
I just made a choice to type here a response. We obviously have choices. What you fail to acknowledge is the choices we make are influenced by either being a child of God or a child of wrath.

Sure they are. Never said we weren't influenced. We live in a world at war. It's kinda like the matrix movie. What we see isn't the true reality. The war behind the scenes is reality. Our choices affect the unseen reality as we choose sides in this war. God will win because he is smarter and stronger than the opposition, but meanwhile, the battle is bloody.
What you imagine is God as the man behind the curtain, directing everything, good or evil. That's fatalism, not Christianity.

redleghunter · Nov 3, 2019

renniks said:
What you imagine is God as the man behind the curtain, directing everything, good or evil. That's fatalism, not Christianity.

No I confirmed what the Bible teaches. God is Sovereign over His creation. I have neither added nor subtracted from this Truth.

renniks · Nov 3, 2019

redleghunter said:
No I confirmed what the Bible teaches. God is Sovereign over His creation. I have neither added nor subtracted from this Truth.

What do you mean by sovereign? Control? God never claims to control everything in this world.

Investigating WHO God has chosen and WHY

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