What day is the sabath what day does the bible say?

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ViaCrucis

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as you have done in the past

False. I've never reported you in the past.

But I have grown impatient with repeated lying slander by those who know better, but do not care.

If you want to lie, slander, bear false witness, and all-around be miserable then do it somewhere else.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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Original Happy Camper

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False. I've never reported you in the past.

But I have grown impatient with repeated lying slander by those who know better, but do not care.

If you want to lie, slander, bear false witness, and all-around be miserable then do it somewhere else.

I feel the same way about you and most of your posts.

For your information I am not miserable and that statement indicates you psychic abilities to know that I am miserable is not working real well.

You just slandered me "If you want to lie, slander, bear false witness,"

should i stoop to your level and threaten you as bullies do.
 
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Semper-Fi

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"During the later periods of Roman history, sun worship gained in importance and ultimately led to what has been called a “solar monotheism.”

Nearly all the gods of the period were possessed of solar qualities, and both Christ and Mithra acquired the traits of solar deities.

The feast of Sol Invictus (Unconquered Sun) on December 25 was celebrated with great joy, and eventually this date was taken over by the Christians as Christmas, the birthday of Christ."
Sun worship | religion

www.britannica.com seems to be current
off line-unexpectedly closed the connection.
-

The Origins of Easter and sunrise service
Roman Rite - Wikipedia

The Roman Rite has been adapted over the centuries by the Catholic Church, following the old Antiquity of the Roman Mass a Liturgical_rite they adapted from times of old before Christ, it reads

"It is still redolent of that liturgy, of the days when Caesar ruled the world and thought he could stamp out the faith of Christ, when our fathers met together before dawn and sang a hymn to Christ as to a God."
-

Another result of the council was an agreement on when to celebrate Easter which is simply stated:

We also send you the good news of the settlement concerning the holy pasch, namely that in answer to your prayers this question also has been resolved. All the brethren in the East who have hitherto followed the Jewish practice will henceforth observe the custom of the Romans and of yourselves and of all of us (who from ancient times) have kept Easter together with you.[13]
-
It was changed to Easter, to observe a roman
costume that dates way before Christ was born
of a virgin.

Because the celebration of Easter was tied to the spring equinox, the Roman Catholic Church considered this steady drift in the date of Easter undesirable.
-

Polycarp and the Quartodeciman Controversy

After the death of the apostle John, a disciple of his, Polycarp, waged a controversy over the Passover-Easter question with the bishop of Rome, by then leader of the church

This theological battle was called the Quartodeciman Controversy.Polycrates contended, as Jesus and the original apostles taught, that the Passover should be observed in the new Christian form introduced by Jesus and by the apostle Paul (1 Corinthians 11),

using unleavened bread and wine instead of sacrificing a lamb, on the eve of the 14th Nisan (first month in the sacred calendar,occurring in the spring).

But [the Rome church] insisted that it be
observed on a Sunday.
Quartodecimanism - Wikipedia
Easter controversy - Wikipedia

Polycarp was a disciple of John the Apostle
Polycarp - Wikipedia
 
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klutedavid

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"During the later periods of Roman history, sun worship gained in importance and ultimately led to what has been called a “solar monotheism.”
That idea, solar monotheism, is a hypothesis and lacks the strong evidence.

According to one hypothesis about Christmas, it was set to 25 December because it was the date of the festival of Sol Invictus. This idea became popular especially in the 18th and 19th centuries. (wikipedia solar monotheism)
Nearly all the gods of the period were possessed of solar qualities, and both Christ and Mithra acquired the traits of solar deities.
What period of time are you referring to?
The feast of Sol Invictus (Unconquered Sun) on December 25 was celebrated with great joy, and eventually this date was taken over by the Christians as Christmas, the birthday of Christ."
Sun worship | religion
As I quoted above, that is an hypothesis. In other words, that is someone's idea and lacks the hard evidence to advance the idea, the idea of a Christian solar monotheism.
seems to be current off line-unexpectedly closed the connection.
The site or the connection?
The Origins of Easter and sunrise service
Roman Rite - Wikipedia
The origin of Easter?

Easter and the holidays that are related to it are moveable feasts which do not fall on a fixed date in the Gregorian or Julian calendars which follow only the cycle of the Sun; rather, its date is offset from the date of Passover and is therefore calculated based on a lunisolar calendar similar to the Hebrew calendar. (wikipedia)

The same goes for Sabbath days, the lunisolar calendar of the Jews does not match, the solar calendar of the Roman Empire.

There is a difference of eleven days between the solar and lunisolar calendars. This difference in the number of days (eleven) continually throws both calendars out of alignment.

The seventh day on a lunisolar calendar will not coincide with Saturn's day on the solar calendar, very often.
The Roman Rite has been adapted over the centuries by the Catholic Church, following the old Antiquity of the Roman Mass a Liturgical_rite they adapted from times of old before Christ, it reads

"It is still redolent of that liturgy, of the days when Caesar ruled the world and thought he could stamp out the faith of Christ, when our fathers met together before dawn and sang a hymn to Christ as to a God."
You need to quote the source.
Another result of the council was an agreement on when to celebrate Easter which is simply stated:

We also send you the good news of the settlement concerning the holy pasch, namely that in answer to your prayers this question also has been resolved. All the brethren in the East who have hitherto followed the Jewish practice will henceforth observe the custom of the Romans and of yourselves and of all of us (who from ancient times) have kept Easter together with you.[13]
What is the source?
It was changed to Easter, to observe a roman
costume that dates way before Christ was born
of a virgin.
Source?
Because the celebration of Easter was tied to the spring equinox, the Roman Catholic Church considered this steady drift in the date of Easter undesirable.
That's what happens when you try to use two different calendars, lunisolar and solar, they do not mesh together.
 
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klutedavid

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Saturday, Saturn worship and Saturnalia.

Roman pagans were the first to practice the holiday of Saturnalia. This feast was a week-long period of lawlessness celebrated between December 17-25. During this period, Roman courts were closed, and Roman law dictated that no one could be punished for damaging property or injuring people during the week long celebration. The feast began when Roman authorities chose the “Lord of Misrule.” The Lord of Misrule was appointed in the guise of the god Saturn. (Cepher.net)
 
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Yeshua HaDerekh

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The Origins of Easter and sunrise service
Another result of the council was an agreement on when to celebrate Easter which is simply stated:

We also send you the good news of the settlement concerning the holy pasch, namely that in answer to your prayers this question also has been resolved. All the brethren in the East who have hitherto followed the Jewish practice will henceforth observe the custom of the Romans and of yourselves and of all of us (who from ancient times) have kept Easter together with you.[13]
-
It was changed to Easter, to observe a roman costume that dates way before Christ was born
of a virgin.

Polycarp and the Quartodeciman Controversy

After the death of the apostle John, a disciple of his, Polycarp, waged a controversy over the Passover-Easter question with the bishop of Rome, by then leader of the church

Just some clarification, we in the East do not use the term Easter liturgically. We still use Pascha just as we always have for almost 2000 years. Also, the Roman bishop was ever the leader of the whole Church, he was leader of the faithful IN Rome. We have always had our own bishops. One of the reasons for the debate was WHEN to stop the Paschal fast, some did on the 14th, others after the paschal Sabbath of the 15th. Also, we do NOT, nor have we ever, held "sunrise" services. Our paschal services basically start after the Sabbath concludes then through midnight.
 
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Semper-Fi

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That idea, solar monotheism, is a
hypothesis and lacks the strong evidence.

Do you have a bible verse to keep x-mas ?
month and date of Jesus' birth are unknown.

This pratice did not come from the bible,
birthdays are not celebrated there.

What period of time are you referring to?

read the link given
"During the later periods of Roman history"

You need to quote the source.

you need to read the link provided

What is the source?

see link provided

That's what happens when you try to use two different calendars, lunisolar and solar, they do not mesh together.

That's what happens when someone
does not want to follow Gods Holydays,
and decide to make there own tradition.
 
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klutedavid

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Do you have a bible verse to keep x-mas ?
I don't celebrate Christmas.
month and date of Jesus' birth are unknown.
So is the date of the crucifixion.
This pratice did not come from the bible,
birthdays are not celebrated there.
Agree.
That's what happens when someone
does not want to follow Gods Holydays,
and decide to make there own tradition.
You don't follow all the holy days mentioned in the Old Testament. So why point the finger?

The letter of the law is not for Christians, the letter of the law is for murderers and evil people.
 
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Semper-Fi

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There is a difference of eleven days between the solar and lunisolar calendars. This difference in the number of days (eleven) continually throws both calendars out of alignment.

It does not matter how many days are in a month, or year. In the weekly cycle, there is no break.

Was not The seventh day set apart
and made holy at creation?

The weekly cycle has not changed. the break between the shift from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar?

There was a well known break of 10 days.

In 1582, that Thursday the 4th was followed by Friday the 15th. The weekly cycle was not interrupted. Now take a look at 1752, Wednesday the 2nd was followed by Thursday the 14th.

Again, the calendar had to be adjusted to correct it to the seasons but the weekly cycle remained unchanged.

The weekly cycle can be traced back to the time of Christ, the Sabbath day he keep, it has not changed.
 
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Semper-Fi

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You don't follow all the holy days mentioned in the Old Testament.

You have no idea if I do or not correctly..
The Apostles keep Gods Holy convocations.
The Jews have preserved the Oracles of God.
 
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NeedyFollower

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In 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to have a holy conduct for God is holy, which you are using as justification for keeping every day holy, however, that is a quote from Leviticus where God was giving instructions for how to have a holy conduct, which did not include keeping every day holy, but rather it includes keeping God's Sabbaths holy:

Leviticus 19:2-3 Speak to all the congregation of the people of Israel and say to them, You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy. 3 Every one of you shall revere his mother and his father, and you shall keep my Sabbaths: I am the Lord your God.

And includes refrain from eating unclean animals:

Leviticus 11:44-45 For I am the Lord your God. Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy, for I am holy. You shall not defile yourselves with any swarming thing that crawls on the ground. 45 For I am the Lord who brought you up out of the land of Egypt to be your God. You shall therefore be holy, for I am holy.”

So keeping God's Sabbaths holy does not mean that we should keep every day holy and does not mean that we shouldn't live holy lives on every day, such as by refraining from eating unclean animals on every day. If we did on every day what God wants us to do on His Sabbaths, then we would do no work, but God also wants us to work.

Do you recognize the difference between speaking about holy days that God commanded and speaking about days that man has esteemed as a matter of opinion? We should be careful not to mistake something that was only said against following man's opinion as being against obeying what God has commanded.

Jesus was one of many who fulfilled the Law by teaching how to correctly understand and obey it by word and by example. So I agree that keeping God's Sabbath holy without love is worthless especially because keeping God's Sabbaths holy was intended to be a conduit of how we are to express our love.

Or haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priest in the temple profane the Sabbath and yet are innocent ? Matthew 12:5

I am of the belief until the Lord shows me differently that the Old Covenant was replaced by a new a better covenant which goes beyond the Old Covenant for the Old Covenant brought death and the new covenant is life .
I am thankful that Paul was an apostle to the gentiles for he lived blamelessly in the fulfilling of the the Old covenant and it brought death as the letter of the law always will . So whereas the old covenant Sabbath is still Saturday ( Friday night at sundown until Saturday night at sundown ) , the new covenant Sabbath is Jesus Christ . Without the new covenant it is against the Law for Christ to be our high priest . This is how it is possible to keep every jot and tittle . To abide in Christ .
Are we not part of the royal priesthood and the body of Christ 7 days per week ? This is the day the Lord has made . Christ is set apart ...sanctified . It is a better covenant .
The concern I have for those who would be under the law is Christ is made none effect . A fetish is taking a truth and making it the truth and we know that Jesus Christ is the TRUTH and the way and the Life .
It will lead to spiritual pride because it will become part of salvation and blinds us to other things which are contrary to God's law ..for example , covetousness and love for the world . I may pursue the "American Dream " provided we do church on the real sabbath . A heart filled with those things which shall perish while keeping certain parts of law is an equally dangerous path in my observation .
I am often told that God will bless us when we start keeping his day Holy . This teaching will not pass muster in North Korea . We can not keep anything holy apart from Jesus Christ for in our flesh dwells no good thing . The only thing worthy of God is from God . So , yes , the sabbath ( Friday to Saturday ) is Holy because of Jesus Christ but not because of anything we can do or have done . By Him , through Him and for Him to the Glory of God , the Father .
 
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Soyeong

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Or haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priest in the temple profane the Sabbath and yet are innocent ? Matthew 12:5

A number of God's laws appear to conflict with each other, such as what happened when someone wanted to circumcise their baby on the 8th day and it happened to fall on the Sabbath. However, it was not the case that they were forced to sin by breaking one of the two commandments no matter what they chose to do, but that one of the commandments was never intended to prevent the other from being obeyed. This is why priest were held innocent for performing their duties on the Sabbath and why David and his men were held innocent for eating the bread of the Presence (Matthew 12:3-7).

I am of the belief until the Lord shows me differently that the Old Covenant was replaced by a new a better covenant which goes beyond the Old Covenant for the Old Covenant brought death and the new covenant is life .
I am thankful that Paul was an apostle to the gentiles for he lived blamelessly in the fulfilling of the the Old covenant and it brought death as the letter of the law always will . So whereas the old covenant Sabbath is still Saturday ( Friday night at sundown until Saturday night at sundown ) , the new covenant Sabbath is Jesus Christ . Without the new covenant it is against the Law for Christ to be our high priest . This is how it is possible to keep every jot and tittle . To abide in Christ .
Are we not part of the royal priesthood and the body of Christ 7 days per week ? This is the day the Lord has made . Christ is set apart ...sanctified . It is a better covenant .
The concern I have for those who would be under the law is Christ is made none effect . A fetish is taking a truth and making it the truth and we know that Jesus Christ is the TRUTH and the way and the Life .
It will lead to spiritual pride because it will become part of salvation and blinds us to other things which are contrary to God's law ..for example , covetousness and love for the world . I may pursue the "American Dream " provided we do church on the real sabbath . A heart filled with those things which shall perish while keeping certain parts of law is an equally dangerous path in my observation .
I am often told that God will bless us when we start keeping his day Holy . This teaching will not pass muster in North Korea . We can not keep anything holy apart from Jesus Christ for in our flesh dwells no good thing . The only thing worthy of God is from God . So , yes , the sabbath ( Friday to Saturday ) is Holy because of Jesus Christ but not because of anything we can do or have done . By Him , through Him and for Him to the Glory of God , the Father .

While we are under the New Covenant and not the Mosaic Covenant, we are nevertheless still under the same God with the same nature and therefore the same instructions for how to walk in the same ways and express the same character traits. For example, the way to act in accordance with God's righteousness is straightforwardly based on God's righteousness, not on any particular covenant, and God's righteousness is eternal, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to do what is righteous are eternal valid regardless of which covenant we are under, though as part of the New Covenant those who do not follow those instructions are not children of God (1 John 3:10). Likewise, sin was in the world before the Law was given (Romans 5:13), so there were no actions that became righteous or sinful when the Law was given, but rather the Law revealed what has always been and will always be the way to do that. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant still involves following God's Law.

Jesus set a perfect example of how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law, which means that he would have still taught full obedience to it by example even if he had said nothing, including keeping the Sabbath holy, and as his followers we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22). In Matthew 11:28-30, Jesus was inviting people to become his followers and to learn from him how to obey the Mosaic Law. By saying that we would find rest for our souls, he remezed Jeremiah 6:16-19, where the Mosaic Law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith was one of the weightier matters of the Law, so this rest for our souls comes through having faith in God to guide us in how to rightly live through His Law. Matthew 11:28-30 should not be interpreted as Jesus teaching his audience to rebel against what the Father has commanded.

All throughout the Bible, God wanted His people to repent from their sins and to return to obedience to His Law, and even Christ began his ministry with that message, so it would be absurd to interpret Galatians 5:4 as Paul warning us against doing that and saying that we will be cut off from Christ if we follow Christ. In Psalms 119:29, David wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His Law, so likewise it would be absurd to interpret that as David wanting God to be gracious to him by teaching him how to fall from grace. Paul problem with the Galatians was not that followers of God were being taught how to obey His commands as though obedience to God were somehow a negative thing, but rather his problem was that Gentiles were being taught that they needed to obey works of the law in order to become justified.

In regard to Leviticus 19:2-3, we should honor our parents on every day, so we we should have a holy conduct on every day, but that does not exclude also keeping God's Sabbaths holy.
 
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helmut

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So you are a proponent of the lunar sabbath? The continual 7 count would be disrupted if that were true...
The connection between sabbaths and new moon, as seen in several OT verses, supports the assumption that the lunar sabbath was original, and the later continuous count a later (well, over 2,500 years ago ...) development.
It is impossible to give a proof to this (maybe some archeological discover can decide this point in the future?).
 
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helmut

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The Lord's day is not the Sabbath day, unless the apostle John renamed the Sabbath day.
This is too simple. There is the phrase "the day of the Lord" which denotes the Sabbath in the decalogue, and the day of judgement in several prophetic books.

And there is a phrase that can be literally translated as "the lordish day" (using the adjective kyriakos which is derived from kyrios, Lord), which denotes the Sunday.

Both are translated as "the Lord's day" in some translations.
 
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helmut

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The Hebrew calendar has a 19-year time cycle made up of 12 common years (with 12 months) and 7 leap years (with 13 months).
Well, this the today's Jews calendar, in Jesus' time (as can be read in Josephus and AFAIK even in the Talmood) the new moon was determined by observance: When there were two witness that have seen the new moon, the evening they saw it was the beginning of the first day of the now month.

There was a dispute between Pharisees and Sadducees what to do when the new moon was discovered on a Sabbath. This may account for the difference in dating of the crucifiction between the synoptic Gospels (Jesus, and Pharisees) and John (High Priest, i.e. Sadducees). It would be interesting to hear what Judaism after 70 AD thought about that matter.
 
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helmut

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What was the Hebrew calendar?
As to moons, they just looked at the new moon to decide when the next month started. This has been replaced later by a calendar which decides which month as 29 and which month has 30 days.

Whether the ancient Israelites knew the metonic cycle (19 year cycle) is not known. The Jews in the time of Jesus certainly had heard about it (maybe even the Jews who returned from Babylon), it is quite possible that they used it.

What was the Julian calendar?
The Egyptian calendar introduced to Rome by Caesar, and emended by August, who introduced the leap year to get the calendar in sync with the lunar year.

Why was the Gregorian calendar introduced?
The Julian calendar emended by Pope Silvester to get the Easter calendar in accordance to the decrees of the Nicene council, hence the equinox of the Gregorian calendar is (roughly) at the date it was in the Julian calendar at 325 AD.
 
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helmut

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Can you explain to me what luni-solar or lunisolar means
Lunisolar means, that the month are in sync with the moon and the years in sync with the sun.

The Muslim calendar is a lunar calendar, with twelve lunar months each year (no leap month). Which means, that the Muslim year is about 354 day long, out of sync with the sun. A calendar which uses leap months (13th months, sometimes called double 12th months) to keep in sync with the sun is called lunisolar.
 
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helmut

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A lunar month is different to a solar month.
There is no solar month, there are only moths in a solar calendar. The sun gives no signs that can be used to determine months.

Well precisely speaking, there is a sort of cycle of 28 days in the magnetic field of the sun, but this was only detected some decades ago, co calendar takes heed of it.
 
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