Christian nationalism

"slow decay" ? From bad to worse ?

I'm a 'Christian Nationalist' in that I believe America is a nation blessed by God and given to the descendants of Israel, principally of Joseph. Of course it is slipping away as we are unable to appreciate and maintain it. That said our possession of it is not based on any virtue of our own but of the 'right of the firstborn' in this regard. It was also not given 'in perpetuity'.

Nick Moser said:

Well throughout history Christian countries have been nationalistic. Eva today you see if countries such as Catholic Hungry, Protestant America,Orthodox Russia. I also hear Christian praise nationalistic leaders such as DollfußAustria), Codreanu(Romania),Salazar(Portugal), Metaxas(Greece), and of course, Franco(Spain). At the same time I hear Christians denounce this idea. I personally think that nationalism is preferable to Marxism, which even today is killing our world. Also nationalism comes from the so-called Enlightenment. The influence of this movement has cause a slow decay of traditional society and spirituality.

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Their are aspects of nationalism that precede the Enlightenment. Armenia's identity as "the first Christian nation" goes back to 301. Great Britain's identity goes back King Alfred in the Early Middle Ages and so on.

As far as decay etc. goes we see some early nationalism in the Bible with Israel as a nation and the Jews as a nationality. I actually believe a certain amount of nationalism is part of God's plan. While the other parts can be chalked up to how the Fall corrupts every aspect of creation.

Nick Moser said:

Well throughout history Christian countries have been nationalistic. Eva today you see if countries such as Catholic Hungry, Protestant America,Orthodox Russia. I also hear Christian praise nationalistic leaders such as DollfußAustria), Codreanu(Romania),Salazar(Portugal), Metaxas(Greece), and of course, Franco(Spain). At the same time I hear Christians denounce this idea. I personally think that nationalism is preferable to Marxism, which even today is killing our world. Also nationalism comes from the so-called Enlightenment. The influence of this movement has cause a slow decay of traditional society and spirituality.

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Franco was a dictator who had more than 22,000 people shot after the Civil War. I am troubled if Christians think such a figure is worthy of praise.

OldWiseGuy said:

I'm a 'Christian Nationalist' in that I believe America is a nation blessed by God and given to the descendants of Israel, principally of Joseph. Of course it is slipping away as we are unable to appreciate and maintain it. That said our possession of it is not based on any virtue of own but of the 'right of the firstborn' in this regard. It was also not given 'in perpetuity'.

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Virtually no one living in America is descended from Jacob/Israel.

Nick Moser said:

Well throughout history Christian countries have been nationalistic. Eva today you see if countries such as Catholic Hungry, Protestant America,Orthodox Russia. I also hear Christian praise nationalistic leaders such as DollfußAustria), Codreanu(Romania),Salazar(Portugal), Metaxas(Greece), and of course, Franco(Spain). At the same time I hear Christians denounce this idea. I personally think that nationalism is preferable to Marxism, which even today is killing our world. Also nationalism comes from the so-called Enlightenment. The influence of this movement has cause a slow decay of traditional society and spirituality.

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When most of us hear the word 'nationalism' we think of the normal, classic meaning, as normally used in America --

Nationalism: identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations.

Notice that last key part: "to the exclusion or detriment of other nations"

So, a mutually beneficial pact between 2 nations is not normally thought of as nationalism. If America does something in its own interest that also benefits the other nations involved, that's not usually called "nationalism".

A strong example of actual nationalism in actual practice:

Nationalism in 1939: Germany invades Poland --

"To Hitler, the conquest of Poland would bring Lebensraum, or “living space,” for the German people. According to his plan, the “racially superior” Germans would colonize the territory and the native Slavs would be enslaved. German expansion had begun in 1938 with the annexation of Austria and then continued with the occupation of the Sudetenland and then all of Czechoslovakia in 1939. Both had been accomplished without igniting hostilities with the major powers, and Hitler hoped that his invasion of Poland would likewise be tolerated."
https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/germans-invade-poland

This was a strong example of nationalistic action: it was only for the benefit of Germany, and at the detriment of Poland.

So, when you use the word 'nationalism' this is the kind of meaning the word has for many Americans.

I think what you really meant was an entirely different thing though.... Would you like to tell us more exactly what you meant?

Nick Moser said:

But many of the people who were executed for communist revolutionaries

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What is a "communist revolutionary"? A political opponent? The losing side of a civil war? The wounds from the Spanish Civil War almost a century ago have not healed--if you listen to Catalan separatists and the way they talk about the king sometimes, they sound like they stepped out of the early 20th century. I know people in Andalucía who are still bitter at the Catholic Church for its complicity during the Franco years.

Franco has been dead for decades and is still tearing Spain apart. That is what nationalism does.

Also, it's valuable to be aware of another wording/language issue: many Christians think of "Christian Nationalism" to be kind of practically competing religion where nation is elevated above God. Above.

For example: a friend I know in church was recently invited to visit another church one Sunday for something, and it was a large church, and he told me they had put a large American flag over the cross at the front of the church.

You could only see the flag, instead of the cross, though it's outline was slightly visible. The cross was covered over.

This is a strong example. Of course a church doesn't have to cover over the cross with a flag to be nationalistic (in the normal meaning of the word), putting the worldly above the things of God. Covering the cross with a flag is just a very easy example.

Again, this may not be what you really mean to be referring to, so it could be helpful to tell us more precisely and exactly what you really mean, with precise example of what it looks like in actual practice.

You may be thinking of something different from what we know locally as "Christian nationalism".

Nick Moser said:

Well throughout history Christian countries have been nationalistic. Eva today you see if countries such as Catholic Hungry, Protestant America,Orthodox Russia. I also hear Christian praise nationalistic leaders such as DollfußAustria), Codreanu(Romania),Salazar(Portugal), Metaxas(Greece), and of course, Franco(Spain). At the same time I hear Christians denounce this idea. I personally think that nationalism is preferable to Marxism, which even today is killing our world. Also nationalism comes from the so-called Enlightenment. The influence of this movement has cause a slow decay of traditional society and spirituality.

Click to expand...

Nick Moser said:

Well throughout history Christian countries have been nationalistic. Eva today you see if countries such as Catholic Hungry, Protestant America,Orthodox Russia. I also hear Christian praise nationalistic leaders such as DollfußAustria), Codreanu(Romania),Salazar(Portugal), Metaxas(Greece), and of course, Franco(Spain). At the same time I hear Christians denounce this idea. I personally think that nationalism is preferable to Marxism, which even today is killing our world. Also nationalism comes from the so-called Enlightenment. The influence of this movement has cause a slow decay of traditional society and spirituality.

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Christian Nationalism is not the "Good News" so best to stick with what Jesus Christ of Nazareth commanded us to do.
Blessings

Two things: as far as I know in all of human history there has never been such a thing as a "Christian nation" Not even once.
And second: there's never going to BE such a thing in human history as a Christian nation.
tulc(just thought that should be pointed out)

I don't think Nationalism is bad. Its sad that media made a nationalist or patriot for his country,culture,heritage,history to feel as Nazi which is completely different thing. I think there is nothing bad to be pround to be Black,white,asian or what ever, to be Mexican,European,Africa. Every country every race is unique in its way and God made us all different and i think we should preserve who we are and what we have. Its the Devil that want to distroy all cultures,races and eliminate humans to be no gender no race. The story is repeating it self.

Nick Moser said:

I agree. Mind you that the goal of the satanic cult known as Communism/Progressivism/Socialism is to make everyone the same so they can control us.

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Nationalism doesn't always have to have a ugly ring to the definition, but in today's culture? Depending on who's speaking about it? That's when people decide whether it is evil or not. If it is said within the person's tribe its fine, but outside the tribe? It's evil. At different times in history - like WWII - it did have a negative definition most definitely.

I don't know about the satanic cult portion of your comment, but I do see tribes breaking out which are intended divide the country and its people. It used to be just political parties, but today isn't broken down into smaller pieces - or tribes.

If one tribe says this is the definition then another claims its not - and offers its own definition and then tells the first tribe that's what they really meant. Tribalism tends to take on the negative definition of nationalism today. Let's take the definition that was supplied for nationalism below and replace the words:

Tribalism: identification with one's own tribe and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other tribes. Any ideologies that undercut or contradict the tribe are opposed.

Nationalism can have a negative aspect to it, but it doesn't always have to. The push to use Nazism today towards anything one tribe disagrees with towards another? Yes, you will always have a negative connotation to it.

People claim that nationalism is what is tearing everything apart, but I see tribalism in this time in history that tends to do the better job at it. You have different tribes within political parties today, and then you have different tribes within tribes as well. All use stereotypes (bigotry) towards other tribes whilst claiming tolerance and acceptance within its own for other tribes. The arrogance today is what is rotting the country from within. It's not just one tribe, but all do it seems to me that does this.

It reminds me of a tree that fell down on our property this week. The tree looked beautiful while it was standing - green leaves and healthy branches. WHen a storm came? It fell and the rotted interior told a different story.

In todays society if you say your patriot you are already labeled as far right or nationalist almost nazi by the media and social justice warriors.