where did the devil come from?

white gardenia said:

Yeah I actually had the same thought...
Its interesting that the Bible details the origins of nearly everything...the earth, the sun, the sky, the sea...exactly how and why Adam and Eve were created...
But there is little or nothing about where the devil came from. It might be that he's just not that important.

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THOMAS AQUINAS IN 50 PAGES by DR. TAYLOR MARSHALL

HOW THE EVIL ANGELS BECAME DEMONS

Thomas teaches there are good angels and bad angels. The bifurcation of angels into good angels (like Saint Michael) and bad angels (like Satan) is discussed by Saint Thomas at Summa theologiae I, qq. 63-64. Following passages from the Old and New Testament, Thomas teaches the angels were tested. Some angels adhered to God and were rewarded with the beatific vision of God’s essence (good angels) and some rebelled and lost grace (bad angels or demons). According to Christian tradition, Satan was once a seraph and the highest of angel of all...

A defect appeared in the bad angels. Thomas cites Job 4:18: “In His angels, He found wickedness.” When they were first created, the angels did not have the beatific vision of God’s essence. They were literally blind to the vision of God. They were first tested (some say by a vision of Christ incarnate in Mary, see Revelation chapter 12) and certain angels could not accept serving God if it entailed serving a lower species—namely the human species.

Thomas quotes Saint Augustine who says the devil “is not a fornicator nor a drunkard nor anything of the like sort, yet he is proud and envious.” Lucifer and one third of the angels fell on account of pride and envy. Thomas explains the devil wanted to be [like] God and he cites Isaiah 14:13-14: “I will ascend into Heaven...I will be like the Most High.” Saint Augustine also confirms that Satan “wished to be called God.”

Saint Augustine relates the fall of the evil angels to the book of Genesis: “And God saw the light that it was good, and He divided the light from the darkness” (Genesis 1:4, D-R). Thomas picks up this allegory from Augustine, and identifies the separation here as the division of the good angels from the bad angels who became “dark.”

All this means that the devils are not naturally wicked. God did not give certain angels a wicked nature. Just like humans, God originally made angels good and then some of them chose to become evil. By choosing themselves, rather than God as their final cause, the demons thwarted their angelic natures. They became dark and turned in on themselves. Although they do not have lust for material objects, the demons have spiritual greed. They desire to be God. They desire to be worshiped. This is the final and eternal decision of their free wills.

BobRyan said:

Ezek 28:14 “You were the anointed cherub who covers;
I established you;
You were on the holy mountain of God;
You walked back and forth in the midst of fiery stones.
15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created,
Till iniquity was found in you.



16 “By the abundance of your trading
You became filled with violence within,
And you sinned;
Therefore I cast you as a profane thing
Out of the mountain of God;
And I destroyed you, O covering cherub,
From the midst of the fiery stones.

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some kind of allusion to Adam & Eve "covering" themselves after eating the forbidden fruit ??

BobRyan said:

And will be defeated again at the 2nd coming for we see in Rev 20 he is to be bound and chained

And then again - at the end of the 1000 years an ultimate defeat.

7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

So the defeat is in "stages".

1. He loses his place in heaven and cannot gain entrance back into the heavenly city. When he initially loses the war in heaven itself. But that war continued only on a wider stage.
2. He loses in his debate with God over Job - in Job 1 and 2. There he debates God before the heavenly intelligences as he claims to come to that meeting representing Earth. (At the temptation of Christ he reminds Christ that the earth has been given to him.. and he can give it to whomever he wishes). 2 Cor 4:4 he is called "the god of this world" -- even after the cross.
3. He loses at the cross - where his doom is made certain and his freedom to roam beyond earth and its territory is removed .. as Rev 12 states.
As we see in Rev 20
5. He loses again at the end of the 1000 years where he is consumed in the lake of fire.



Indeed - on this earth - he is free to move around .. he can also go pretty much wherever man can go .. so that means our solar system.



If your view of war - is that war can only have one battle -- then you must be fairly new to planet earth..

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JackRT said:

So Satan's defeat is in four stages? This calls into question not just the omnipotence but also the competence of God. Perhaps there is a better understanding?

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Yes... a "better understanding" when given the facts above in my post - would be that "God is explaining over time" so that as Jesus said in John 16 "I have many more things to tell you but you cannot bear them now" --

All of this is trivial to God - but His objective is not "how much of this do I understand?" but rather "how much of this do others understand?" without simply mind-zapping them with understanding.

A ok.. yes as with all the angels God made them. If one was to see him.. one would know where pride his pride came from. Full of wisdom... and sin was found in him. His fall seem to have happen before man.

But.. so much more of this would be speculation. Its something that has no effect on us in this world. So after this..then we will know the what where and why. He is everything God/Christ is not. No truth in him. So other then this... JESUS is king of kings lord of lords. HE is what I look at. He took care of Satan.

There are a few references here which give a Catholic understanding of the fall of Satan and the angels who fell with him (the demons). One of the things that you might find interesting is that the angels were not in heaven before the fall.

Once a soul reaches heaven, it cannot sin. It perceives the beatific vision of God, and is inexorably drawn towards God's perfection and love.

Therefore the angels were not in heaven when they fell and became demons.

The fall of the angels - The Catholic Leader

The Devil, the Fallen Angel

Another question is why was the demons' choice unforgivable? The answer lies with their superior intelligence. They knew precisely what they were risking, and decided to go ahead with their rebellion anyway.

And since they were then pitted against the Almighty Himself, they needed to find the strongest leader amongst themselves to lead them. Hence Satan's captaincy of Hell.

But since they have rejected love, it cannot be love that binds them together. Their bond is hatred of God, and because of God's abiding interest in us to the point of sacrificing Himself for us in the form of His Son, they hate us with a passion also, since there is no way back for them.

But why weren’t the devils given a second chance, or many chances, as we are?

The answer lies in the superior understanding of the angels’ mind. They understood perfectly from the outset the consequences of their choice, were they to reject God. They knew they had only one opportunity and that their choice was irrevocable.

The Catechism says, quoting St John Damascene: “It is the irrevocable character of their choice, and not a defect in the infinite divine mercy, that makes the angels’ sin unforgivable. ‘There is no repentance for the angels after their fall, just as there is no repentance for men after death’” (De Fide orth. 2, 4; CCC 393).

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Bob Crowley said:

the angels were not in heaven before the fall.

Once a soul reaches heaven, it cannot sin. It perceives the beatific vision of God, and is inexorably drawn towards God's perfection and love.

Therefore the angels were not in heaven when they fell and became demons.

The fall of the angels - The Catholic Leader

The Devil, the Fallen Angel

Another question is why was the demons' choice unforgivable? The answer lies with their superior intelligence. They knew precisely what they were risking, and decided to go ahead with their rebellion anyway.

And since they were then pitted against the Almighty Himself, they needed to find the strongest leader amongst themselves to lead them. Hence Satan's captaincy of Hell.

But since they have rejected love, it cannot be love that binds them together. Their bond is hatred of God, and because of God's abiding interest in us to the point of sacrificing Himself for us in the form of His Son, they hate us with a passion also, since there is no way back for them.

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Technically, not in the "3rd heaven" ?

(And not in the "1st heaven" (earth's atmosphere) either?)

from Humanity!