Children in the Rapture?

ewq1938 · Oct 1, 2019

food4thought said:
How do we know that?

Because the 7th trump is when Christ returns:

Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

When the AC shows up we know it's 3 and a half years before the second coming, and the day the two prophets resurrect we know the second coming is that same day...in fact very soon after that earthquake.

The great tribulation is the day of the Lord, in which there will be darkness and not light, and He will punish the people of the earth with the Antichrist as well as His own judgments!

The day of the Lord is AFTER the tribulation when the wrath from God comes. The tribulation is the wrath of Satan against the people of God.

CharismaticLady · Oct 1, 2019

JacksBratt said:
This is going to explain it better than I can:What did Paul mean in 1 Corinthians 7: 14 when he said children of a believer are holy, not unclean?

While the believer’s conduct may be a powerful example for the unbelieving mate, he or she can usually go further than just setting an example to the children. A believing parent can actively teach them God’s way and directly develop their understanding and relationship with Him. Without the influence of a converted parent, children in the household would be no different from others who, in ignorance, disobey God and lead spiritually “unclean” lives. However, because of the parent’s conversion and relationship with God, such children are in a special category. Although not baptized, they are part of the “holy nation,” the Church (1 Peter 2:9). They also have special access to the knowledge of God’s way of life.

I hope that is all it means, but I can't be sure that all aborted babies go to heaven. Some in the early church by their writings did not believe so.

JacksBratt · Oct 1, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
I hope that is all it means, but I can't be sure that all aborted babies go to heaven. Some in the early church by their writings did not believe so.

I've never been one to care too much if "others didn't believe so".

A baby, infant, fetus, retarded person, CP child or whatever... never come to an age where they are capable of cognitive understanding of sin, repentance, faith, grace, mercy, salvation....

So, unless you think that Christ is going to condemn them because, if they had of had the mental ability.. they would have rejected Him.. kinda like the "Minority Report" movie with Tom "Scientologist moron" Cruise... Then you can have it... But I don't hold to that belief.

The "unclean" children are just those who's parents failed to teach them the gospel or the ways of Christ.... they are still held to the same judgement. They don't get off because they weren't taught right.. Unless they never reached the mental capacity of understanding.

So, two kids.. one in a Christian home.. one in the home of non believers. Until they are cognitive and can take on the responsibility of their fate... they are heaven bound.

When they come to the age of understanding.. they will either accept Christ.. or deny Him.. and face the fate of their choice at the time of their death.

CharismaticLady · Oct 1, 2019

JacksBratt said:
I've never been one to care too much if "others didn't believe so".

A baby, infant, fetus, retarded person, CP child or whatever... never come to an age where they are capable of cognitive understanding of sin, repentance, faith, grace, mercy, salvation....

So, unless you think that Christ is going to condemn them because, if they had of had the mental ability.. they would have rejected Him.. kinda like the "Minority Report" movie with Tom "Scientologist moron" Cruise... Then you can have it... But I don't hold to that belief.

The "unclean" children are just those who's parents failed to teach them the gospel or the ways of Christ.... they are still held to the same judgement. They don't get off because they weren't taught right.. Unless they never reached the mental capacity of understanding.

So, two kids.. one in a Christian home.. one in the home of non believers. Until they are cognitive and can take on the responsibility of their fate... they are heaven bound.

When they come to the age of understanding.. they will either accept Christ.. or deny Him.. and face the fate of their choice at the time of their death.

I'm like you, I don't really care what others think of me believing what the Word says, but I will not make up my own opinions from human reasoning. I like to teach others, but only what I can prove from the written Word. One meaning in the OT for the word "unclean" was pagan Gentiles of other gods. There were other temporary uncleanness, but that doesn't fit this child in Paul's epistle, whereas the first does. What do you think happened to all those children of those nations that God ordered killed, along with every man, woman and beast?

I like the forums because like everyone else, I don't know everything. And that is why I brought up this verse in 1 Cor. 7. As far as the mentally ill. That is a whole other subject, and the Word seems to be mute on the subject, unless you can direct me to a Scripture. I would very much appreciate that.

I never saw the "Minority Report." I too think Tom Cruise and John Travolta are sorely deluded, but I like their portrayal of characters in stories.

Charles Kanyuga · Oct 1, 2019

sdowney717 said:
1 Thessalonians 4:1 (NASB)
look at v17, it is harpazō

Strong's say, HARPAGESOMETHA as derived from HAIREOMAI. Lexicon says ARPAGESOMETHA.

Charles Kanyuga · Oct 1, 2019

ewq1938 said:
No, it's harpazo:

View attachment 264201
1Th 4:17 ThenG1899 weG2249 which are aliveG2198 and remainG4035 shall be caught upG726 togetherG260 withG4862 themG846 inG1722 the clouds,G3507 to meetG1519 G529 theG3588 LordG2962 inG1519 the air:G109 andG2532 soG3779 shall we everG3842 beG2071 withG4862 the Lord.G2962

G726
ἁρπάζω
harpazō
har-pad'-zo
From a derivative of G138; to seize (in various applications): - catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).
Total KJV occurrences: 13

726 harpázō – properly, seize by force; snatch up, suddenly and decisively – like someone seizing bounty (spoil, a prize); to take by an open display of force (i.e. not covertly or secretly).

LittleLambofJesus · Oct 2, 2019

sdowney717 said:
Luke 17, body is corpse, eagles are VULTURES!
Read it for yourself!
Luke 17:1 (NASB)
Genesis 1:1 (NASB)
Genesis 1:1 (NASB)

I just happen to have a thread on that for those interested........

"WHERE THE BODY is, there the EAGLES be gathered" Matt 24 Luke 17-- and Revelation

4430. ptoma pto'-mah from the alternate of 4098; a ruin, i.e. (specially), lifeless body (corpse, carrion):--dead body, carcase, corpse.

Matthew 24:28
for wherever the corpse<4430> may be, there shall the eagles/vultures<105> be gathered together.

It is used in 3 other verses......
The body of John the Baptist in Mark 6, and bodies of 2 witnesses in Revelation 11.

Mark 6:
24 And she went forth, and said unto her mother, What shall I ask? And she said, The head of John the Baptist.
27 And immediately the king sent an executioner, and commanded his head to be brought: and he went and beheaded him in the prison,
29 And when is disciples heard of it, they came
and took up His corpse, G4430 and laid it in a tomb.

Revelation 11:
8 And their dead corpses G4430 shall lie in the street<4113> of the great City, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their corpses G4430 three days and an half, and shall not suffer their corpses G4430 to be put in a tomb<3418>
================================
Luke uses G4983

4983. soma so'-mah from 4982; the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively:--bodily, body, slave

Luke 17:37
And they answering say to him, 'Where, sir?'
and He saith to them, 'Where the body<4983> is, there will the eagles/vultures<105> be gathered together.'

Which is used in 1 verse of Revelation concerning the destruction of the "Great City/Harlot/Queen"

Revelation 18:13
and cinnamon, and odours, and ointment, and frankincense,
and wine, and oil,
and fine flour, and wheat,
and cattle, and sheep,
and of horses, and of chariots,
and of bodies<4983> and souls<5590> of men.
=========================

Is Luke 17:37 the prophecy of 70ad desruction of Jerusalem?
Edit

*
Yes it is
4 vote(s)
36.4%
No it's not
4 vote(s)
36.4%
It certainly could be
1 vote(s)
9.1%
Never thought of it that way
0 vote(s)
0.0%
I don't know
2 vote(s)
18.2%
Other
0 vote(s)
0.0%

JacksBratt · Oct 2, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
I'm like you, I don't really care what others think of me believing what the Word says, but I will not make up my own opinions from human reasoning. I like to teach others, but only what I can prove from the written Word. One meaning in the OT for the word "unclean" was pagan Gentiles of other gods. There were other temporary uncleanness, but that doesn't fit this child in Paul's epistle, whereas the first does. What do you think happened to all those children of those nations that God ordered killed, along with every man, woman and beast?

I don't know what happened to all of those children... However, I am 100% sure that it was righteous and just as that is what our creator is. Much of that was done before Christ and outside of the age of grace.

However, if I was to comment on my guess... I would guess that what I told you before would hold. Nobody will be condemned if they are not cognitive of sin, repentance, and whatever existed in their time on this earth for the covering of sins... But... that's just my opinion.

CharismaticLady said:
I like the forums because like everyone else, I don't know everything. And that is why I brought up this verse in 1 Cor. 7. As far as the mentally ill. That is a whole other subject, and the Word seems to be mute on the subject, unless you can direct me to a Scripture. I would very much appreciate that.

I never saw the "Minority Report." I too think Tom Cruise and John Travolta are sorely deluded, but I like their portrayal of characters in stories.

I cannot find any scripture that indicates that children and those without the ability to grasp the concepts of sin and repentance... are condemned.

One verse that would back me up would be when Christ, on the cross, said "forgive them for they know not what they do".... Would this not fit for infants and mentally ill or brain damaged humans?

Also, it's not in God's nature.

Minority Report is a movie about a future time where 4 or 5 "beings" constantly monitor the future. When they see someone commit a crime, in the future, the present time police go and arrest them just before they commit the crime.

food4thought · Oct 2, 2019

ewq1938 said:
Because the 7th trump is when Christ returns:

Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

When the AC shows up we know it's 3 and a half years before the second coming, and the day the two prophets resurrect we know the second coming is that same day...in fact very soon after that earthquake.

The day of the Lord is AFTER the tribulation when the wrath from God comes. The tribulation is the wrath of Satan against the people of God.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, brother. May God bless you as you seek to please Him;
Michael

CharismaticLady · Oct 2, 2019

nolidad · Oct 2, 2019

JacksBratt said:
I, personally, believe that people that never ever heard the gospel... will be held to their attitude.. not their works.

We know that we can do nothing to save ourselves... However, what of those that don't hear of Christ and therefore, of no fault of their own, cannot believe in something that they have not been made aware.

I believe that this is what is meant about those that still have no excuse. They see the grandeur of the universe and the complexity of nature. They have the knowledge of right and wrong and they will live with the attitude based on this.. they will either, by nature, treat others the way they want to be treated, kind and generous... Not because they are earning anything because they have no knowledge of anything that is to be earned... But just out of an attitude and loving heart...

This is different than those who think that they should be saved because they are good... or deny Christ's work and state that they "should be good enough"...

These are people who have no knowledge of eternal life, salvation and damnation... yet do kindness out of their own... More or less obedient to these things that God wrote on the hearts of men.

But, that's just my opinion.

You are correct, it is your opinion! It is contrary to teh clear teaching of Scripture!

Just make sure you do not tell people your opinion as a fact of God- Paul had many bad things to say about people who do that in Galatians!

keras · Oct 2, 2019

ewq1938 said:
No, that doesn't happen when Christ comes. He comes to rule over the nations. He only destroys the army of the beast and he doesn't use fire to do that.

But the Lord will send fire to destroy His enemies BEFORE He Returns. The Sixth Seal worldwide disaster by fire from the sun, will change the world and commence all the prophesied things, leading up to the glorious Return.
Isaiah 66:15-17, Zephaniah 3:8, Amos 1 & 2:1-5, 2 Peter 2:7, + over 70 other verses.

JacksBratt · Oct 3, 2019

nolidad said:
You are correct, it is your opinion! It is contrary to teh clear teaching of Scripture!

And, that's you opinion.

nolidad · Oct 3, 2019

JacksBratt said:
I, personally, believe that people that never ever heard the gospel... will be held to their attitude.. not their works.

We know that we can do nothing to save ourselves... However, what of those that don't hear of Christ and therefore, of no fault of their own, cannot believe in something that they have not been made aware.

I believe that this is what is meant about those that still have no excuse. They see the grandeur of the universe and the complexity of nature. They have the knowledge of right and wrong and they will live with the attitude based on this.. they will either, by nature, treat others the way they want to be treated, kind and generous... Not because they are earning anything because they have no knowledge of anything that is to be earned... But just out of an attitude and loving heart...

This is different than those who think that they should be saved because they are good... or deny Christ's work and state that they "should be good enough"...

These are people who have no knowledge of eternal life, salvation and damnation... yet do kindness out of their own... More or less obedient to these things that God wrote on the hearts of men.

But, that's just my opinion.

Well you are free to believe what you want- but just know that your opinion runs contrary to what teh clear teaching of the Word of God!

Rom.10:9-13
Acts 4:12
John 3:36
Eph. 2 should make it clear that apart from Trust in teh death and resurrection of Jesus there is no salvation.

nolidad · Oct 3, 2019

JacksBratt said:
And, that's you opinion.

No it is the clear teaching of SCripture!

John 3:36 King James Version (KJV)
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Romans 10:9-14 King James Version (KJV)
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Unless you can show me god made a mistake when He inspired these words or spoke them, if someone doesn't believe they cannot be saved! Even with a good attitude!

Romans 3:10-12 King James Version (KJV)
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Ephesians 2:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

See God has told us that no one is good, and that by nature we are objects of wrath- just like by nature a dog is a dog!

ewq1938 · Oct 3, 2019

nolidad said:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

See God has told us that no one is good, and that by nature we are objects of wrath

It says WERE children of wrath not ARE objects of wrath.

JacksBratt · Oct 3, 2019

nolidad said:
No it is the clear teaching of SCripture!

John 3:36 King James Version (KJV)
36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Romans 10:9-14 King James Version (KJV)
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Unless you can show me god made a mistake when He inspired these words or spoke them, if someone doesn't believe they cannot be saved! Even with a good attitude!

Romans 3:10-12 King James Version (KJV)
10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Ephesians 2:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

See God has told us that no one is good, and that by nature we are objects of wrath- just like by nature a dog is a dog!

Christ stated "Forgive them, they no not what they do"... Do you think that these people, that didn't know what they were doing... are different than any other human that is ignorant of what they are doing?

nolidad · Oct 4, 2019

ewq1938 said:
It says WERE children of wrath not ARE objects of wrath.

Ephesians 2 King James Version (KJV)
2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

If you notice, Paul is talking to people who are saved gentiles! Telling them by nature they were once objects of wrath(prior to them being saved) even as others (the unsaved) are now objects of wrath.

C'mon man- that is basic grammar!

nolidad · Oct 4, 2019

JacksBratt said:
Christ stated "Forgive them, they no not what they do"... Do you think that these people, that didn't know what they were doing... are different than any other human that is ignorant of what they are doing?

That forgiveness was to the Romans only and it wasn't eternal forgiveness- it was forgiving them for crucifying God the Son! It was a conditional temporary forgiveness for them to know what really happened! It wasn't for the Pharisees, they knew they were crucifying the Son of God!

JacksBratt · Oct 4, 2019

nolidad said:
That forgiveness was to the Romans only and it wasn't eternal forgiveness- it was forgiving them for crucifying God the Son! It was a conditional temporary forgiveness for them to know what really happened! It wasn't for the Pharisees, they knew they were crucifying the Son of God!

It was for people who were ignorant of what they were doing.

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