straightforward
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Both the Holy Spirit and the Bible (translated correctly...ie not by js) have inspired me throughout this thread!
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Has anyone been thru a Mormon temple?
- Thread starter ladylove
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Both the Holy Spirit and the Bible (translated correctly...ie not by js) have inspired me throughout this thread!
rnmomof7
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You never herard this old Mormon Hymn?
If You Could Hie to KOLOB
_ If you could hie to Kolob in the twinkling of an eye,
_ ___ And then continue onward with the speed of light to fly**,
___ _ D'ye think that you could ever, through all eternity,
_____ Find out the generation where Gods began to be?
_ Or see the grand beginning, where space did not extend?
__ __ Or view the last creation where Gods and matter end?
___ _ Methinks the Spirit whispers, "No man has found 'pure space',"
___ _ Nor seen the outside curtains, where nothing has a place.
_ The works of God continue, and worlds and lives abound;
__ __ Improvement and progression have one eternal round.
___ _ There is no end to matter; there is no end to space;
___ _ There is no end to spirit; there is no end to race.
**__ Revision 6-8-2002
?_ If you could hie to Kolob:_ Listen to this .wav file_ ?
You really do not know??
Ask your mother
_
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Contents of the Book of Abraham
The book of Abraham in the Pearl of Great Price consists of an account of Abraham's experiences with the Lord in four lands: Chaldea, Haran, Canaan, and Egypt. This observation is consistent with the work's opening phrase, "In the land of." Except for events chronicled in the first chapter, Sarai (Sarah) shared fully the vicissitudes and triumphs of her husband.
As the work opens, Abraham is living among an idolatrous people in Chaldea (Abr. 1:1, 5-7). But because of severe persecution (1:12, 15) after having preached against their wickedness, he decides to emigrate. Resulting official opposition almost costs Abraham his life, as a human sacrifice (1:12-15). When he prays for divine help, an angel rescues him, promising that he will be led to a new land and receive the priesthood (1:15-19).
When the famine prophesied by the angel comes to Chaldea (1:29-30), Abraham departs with Sarai, his nephew Lot, and his family, with his father, Terah, following the company (2:4). After they settle in Haran, the Lord commands Abraham to continue on to Canaan and reveals to him the founding elements of the Abrahamic Covenant (2:6-11). Because of famine, Abraham goes to Egypt, where the Lord commands hima feature absent from Genesis 12:11-13to introduce Sarai as his sister so that the Egyptians will not kill him (2:21-25).
In the third chapter, Abraham describes a vision that he received through a Urim and Thummim concerning the worlds created by God, the premortal spirits of people, and the Council in Heaven wherein the gods (cf. John 1:1-4, 14; Heb. 1:1-3) planned the creation of the earth and humankind. The fourth and fifth chapters recount the completion of these plans and the placing of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.
By the book's account, Chaldea was under Egyptian hegemony during Abraham's lifetime. Local religion included Egyptian solar worship, the worship of Pharaoh, and human sacrifice. The discovery of the land of Egypt is attributed to Egyptus, daughter of Ham and Egyptus; her eldest son, whose name was Pharaoh, established its first government.
Doctrinal contributions of the book include a fuller explanation of Abraham's covenant and its relationship to the gospel (2:6-11), and a better understanding of premortal life (3:22-28). Concerning astronomy, it names the celestial body nearest God's abode, Kolob (3:2-4), and details the creation of the earth by a council of Gods in the fourth chapter. Abraham 1:26-27 has been interpreted by some as the scriptural basis for previously withholding the priesthood from blacks.
Concerning biblical connections, the idolatry of Terah (cf. Josh. 24:2) and the Lord's rescue of Abraham (cf. Isa. 29:22) are spelled out in the book of Abraham and in other ancient Abraham texts.
Many themes of the book appear in other ancient literatures, including Abraham's struggle against idolatry (Jubilees 12; Charlesworth, Vol. 2, pp. 79-80), the attempted sacrifice of Abraham (Pseudo-Philo 6; Charlesworth, Vol. 2, pp. 310-12), and Abraham's vision of God's dwelling place, events in the Garden of Eden, and premortal spirits (Apocalypse of Abraham 22-23; Charlesworth, Vol. 1, p. 700). God's instruction to Abraham to introduce Sarai as his sister is echoed in the Genesis Apocryphon (column 19) as having come through a dream. Abraham's teaching astronomy to Egyptians (Book of Abraham Facsimile 3) is described in Pseudo-Eupolemus 9.17.8 and 9.18.2 (Charlesworth, Vol. 2, pp. 881-82) and in Josephus (Antiquities 1.8.2).
Link to LDS Book of Abraham
http://216.239.33.100/search?q=cach...+on+Kolob+Pearl+of+great+price&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
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Ah! that's a great hymn. I've played it before in Sacrament Meeting (kind of like Mass). I don't see what any of this has to do with your previous statement though. 
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rnmomof7
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Today at 07:28 PM jodrey said this in Post #244
Ah! that's a great hymn. I've played it before in Sacrament Meeting (kind of like Mass). I don't see what any of this has to do with your previous statement though.
Because when I said this on post #225 the conversation was the following
born in the planet Kolab though a sex act between the "Heavenly Father" and ONE of his wives.
You chose to play dumb and say this
I have no idea where you got any of that from.
Now if you would like me to bring the polgamy quotes here ..if that was what you didn't underrstand I can do that too.
I tried to tell you that I know your doctrine better than you do.
I also know the "speculation" that is off the books doctrine..
I have studied your doctrine, and find it false ,so there will be no mormon missionaries knocking at my door in the next life to offer me a second chance
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Yes, this is what I find incorrect. Who said Heavenly Father has many wives? Who said that Jesus was born on Kolob?
That's okay, I'm quite confident that you will change your mind once you see how the spirit world is. Just give me a hollar. Say, "Hey! Jodrey, I was wrong!" and I'll say, "Okay, I'll give you the missionary discussions," and then all will be good.
Ah, I have a headache. I was supposed to go to class tonight (a jewelry class, fun), but I'm too sick. I have this real bad cough. I can barely type! Well, I might go watch Rocky... That should heal my headache, shouldn't it?
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Wrigley
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Today at 08:02 PM jodrey said this in Post #246
That's okay, I'm quite confident that you will change your mind once you see how the spirit world is. Just give me a hollar. Say, "Hey! Jodrey, I was wrong!" and I'll say, "Okay, I'll give you the missionary discussions," and then all will be good.
I can assure you, Mom will not be needing that discussion. Nor will I for that matter.
Besides, the only people who get the opportunity according to your religion are those who DID NOT hear your teachings in this life. So only those who died or live in areas where the Mormons haven't been to yet will get this opportunity.
We Christians who have already rejected what you teach, won't get another chance. But since you know so much about what your religion teaches, you already knew that
Ah, I have a headache. I was supposed to go to class tonight (a jewelry class, fun), but I'm too sick. I have this real bad cough. I can barely type! Well, I might go watch Rocky... That should heal my headache, shouldn't it?
I can understand why you have a headache. With being exposed to your teaching and all.
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I'm not so sure about that... I mean, how can I really judge who has had the "chance"? How do we really define this "chance" anyway? I think it has more to do with actually hearing the message and being moved upon by the Holy Ghost than hearing, "*Knock, Knock* Hi, I'm Elder - *Slam!*" I mean, some people just put themselves so far away from the message that they will not hear it, but how would they know not to reject it unless they were already converted? In my opinion that would be kind of unfair. People need to first know exactly what they're rejecting before they reject it. Make sense?
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Wrigley
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Sigh.
Tell you what, I'll do a google search for you again and show you the article from one of your own presidents, seer, relevator and profit.
I'll take his word for it. I suspect he knows what he's talking about.
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Wrigley
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Source: http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/basic/afterlife/second_chance.htm
Read the article. Learn what your church teaches. There will be no second chances for those who have heard your message when they were alive.
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I don't see what your point is. My statement was quite clear and within the bounds of my religion.
I totally believe that. I was talking about the basis for acceptance, not acceptance itself. How can one accept the gospel unless he has heard it? How do you define that "hearing"? If the person, in this life, chooses not to hear it in the first place, that doesn't necessarily mean that they don't accept it. Everyone must hear it eventually, and that's the point. Then there is the choice of acceptance vs. denial.
It makes sense to me that all Christians should believe this principle. Is our God unjust? Is He merciless? Through Christ man may be saved, yet you know that there have been many, are many, and will be many who have not, do not, and will not have the opportunity to hear of Him and accept the atonement into their own lives. Will these people, many of them righteous, all go to hell?
I totally believe that. I was talking about the basis for acceptance, not acceptance itself. How can one accept the gospel unless he has heard it? How do you define that "hearing"? If the person, in this life, chooses not to hear it in the first place, that doesn't necessarily mean that they don't accept it. Everyone must hear it eventually, and that's the point. Then there is the choice of acceptance vs. denial.
It makes sense to me that all Christians should believe this principle. Is our God unjust? Is He merciless? Through Christ man may be saved, yet you know that there have been many, are many, and will be many who have not, do not, and will not have the opportunity to hear of Him and accept the atonement into their own lives. Will these people, many of them righteous, all go to hell?
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rnmomof7
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Today at 08:02 PM jodrey said this in Post #246
Yes, this is what I find incorrect. Who said Heavenly Father has many wives? Who said that Jesus was born on Kolob?
That's okay, I'm quite confident that you will change your mind once you see how the spirit world is. Just give me a hollar. Say, "Hey! Jodrey, I was wrong!" and I'll say, "Okay, I'll give you the missionary discussions," and then all will be good.
Ah, I have a headache. I was supposed to go to class tonight (a jewelry class, fun), but I'm too sick. I have this real bad cough. I can barely type! Well, I might go watch Rocky... That should heal my headache, shouldn't it?
The D&C (Section 131) says that marriage is needed for exaltation.
Brigham Young made this uncompromising statement on August 19, 1866: "The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 11, page 269
"The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy" (August 19, 1866, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11, page 269).
Orson Pratt;
"In the Heaven where our spirits were born, there are many Gods, each one of whom has his own wife or wives which were given to him previous to his redemption, while yet in his mortal state.
"Each God, through his wife or wives, raises up a numerous family of sons and daughters; indeed, there will be no end to the increase of his own children: for each father and mother will be in a condition to multiply forever and ever.
"As soon as each God has begotten many millions of male and female spirits, and his Heavenly inheritance becomes too small, to comfortably accommodate his great family, he, in connection with his sons, organized a new world, after a similar order to the one which we now inhabit, where he sends both the male and female spirits to inhabit tabernacles of flesh and bones.
"Thus each God forms a world for the accommodation of his own sons and daughters who are sent froth in their times and seasons, and generations to be born into the same.
"The inhabitants of each world are required to rever¬ence, adore, and worship their own personal father who dwells in the Heaven which they formerly inhabited," (The Seer, p. 37; ).
Today the church teaches that those worthy elders of a century ago live with their polygamous families in the highest level of heaven. And polygamous weddings (or sealings, as we call them) are still performed in Mormon temples around the world today.
[...more...]
Polygamy Facts, Salt Lake Tribune, Dec. 29, 2000 (Letters
The reason "The Principle" (polgamy) has never beed withdrawn from the church doctrine (it is only suspended) is because the basic belief is that all men that desire to be gods will have to practice "the principal" in the celestial kingdom
That is why the fundamentalists live successful lives within the sight of the Mormon community. The observant Mormon is conflicted ..an eternal law as opposed to a Celestial one. While the majority of Mormon men do not practice it openly..and it would risk excommunication to practice it here. Mormon men talk about having many wives in the next life. (That is why Mormon woman can only be sealed to one man, but Mormon men may be sealed to many.
The understanding is God has wives..
These Gods, being redeemed from the grave with their wives [plural], are immortal and eternal, and will die no more. But they and their wives will be supremely happy. All the endearing ties of conjugal love which existed in their bosoms, when terrestrial and fallen beings [i.e. while alive], are now greatly increased and perfected which serve to swell their souls with feelings of rapturous delight, and unbounded love towards each other, and with joys that are everlasting." Orson Pratt's, The Seer, Vol. I, No. 2, pp. 23 - 24, February, 1853.
What an amazing enticement to the men of Mormonism. But, as a result, LDS women will essentially become members of a polygamous "celestial marriage," wherein they (and their husband's other wives) will be eternally pregnant!
"Supposing that I have a wife or a dozen of them.... Suppose that I lose the whole of them before I go into the spirit world, but that I have been a good, faithful man all the days of my life and lived my religion and had favour with God, and was kind to them, do you think I will be destitute there [in the spirit world]? No, the Lord says there are more [women] there [in the spirit world] than there are here. ...In the spirit world there is an increase of males and females, there are millions of them, and if I am faithful all the time, and continue right along with brother Brigham, we will go to brother Joseph [Smith] and say, `Here we are brother Joseph....' He will say to us, `...Where are your wives?' `They are back yonder; they would not follow us.' `Never mind,' says Joseph, `here are thousands, have all you want.' Perhaps some do not believe that, but I am just simple enough to believe it. ...I am looking for the day, and it is close at hand, when we will have a most heavenly time, one that will be romantic, one with all kinds of ups and downs, which is what I call romantic, for it will occupy in full all the time...." LDS "President" Heber C. Kimball, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, p. 209, 1857.
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Talyn
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whoa
they really believe that? hmmm My best friend is a mormon. I had asked her once how she manages to survive all the **** that she has been thru lately. She told me that her faith is what keeps her going. When she said that, I was thinking about checking it out.
It's kinda ironic though, she was the one who told me about this site.
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I will answer this the best I know how. First off, who was Brigham Young addressing and in what time? I'd like to see the context there.
Actually, I find it more scary than enticing, and don't really find it enticing in the least, nor did most, if not all, of those who practiced it in the early Church. Joseph Smith himself nearly refused to recite the commandment to the people. Again, I don't like the term, "get to" when speaking of polygamy.
Basically, I don't know how to answer most of that. Happily, I have decided that apologetics isn't my department.
I have already posted several sites for the defence of what you call "Mormonism," and I'm sure you can find all your answers there. My purpose on this thread is to state that people shouldn't attack other religions. I have heard more attacks of my own church here than I have heard promotions of other types of Christianity, by a very large extent. I've been finding that modern Christians are more content to attack than to defend, or to destroy than build. Why not tell me what you believe? Why not show me the right way instead of repeatedly telling me I'm wrong? Or is there just not much to it that needs to be said? Believe in Jesus: that's what you'll say. Is there any more to it? Or maybe you'll be happy if I'm anything Christians but Mormon? Yes, I think that's your frame of mind.You have yet to tell me how you know the Bible to be true and Jesus to be the Christ. Don't use circular reasoning on me now; tell me how I can know.
Talyn, who is your friend? I didn't know there were any other LDS members here.
(And yes, I do plan to look into all the writings of Brigham Young eventually.
)So you mean there is no intermediary state between heaven or hell and our mortal lives, right? Yes, in that case I have several. The spirit world is actually similar to what the Catholics call purgatory. I got a nice lesson on it elsewhere. Quite helpful, really. There are several scriptural references to it. Here is what Karla wrote regarding that intermediary state:
I think my question to you should be, "How can you not believe in such a thing?"
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Jodrey, you are a sincere guy. I can see that. Thank you for sticking this out with us. I will be happy to answer your certain questions below. But when I give the answers, I would like a decision from you as to who Jesus Christ really is for there is historical proof and many Christians have staked their lives on it in the past and will again by the millions in the future because of it.
I am sorry that you feel we are attacking you. It is understandable why you feel that way. I apologize to you for myself and my Christian couterparts here. However, we are attempting to contrast what biblical Christianity states as to who Jesus really is compared to how Mormonism views Jesus. Jodrey, they both cannot be true. You know that. Can you examine what we say as to who Jesus is objectively? I hope you can.
Oh no, we would not be happy unless you understood who Jesus really is and what He has done for you. Once you understand that, then you will understand things much differently, by the grace of God.
Question: Who is Jesus, really?
Jesus is and always has been eternally God. He has the complete charatacterics of God in every way. He is a Divine and Supreme Being.
Jesus took on flesh and blood of humanity. Jesus came to take on the identity of man so that he could identify with man in every way except one.
The one exception that he did not take on in his humanity is the sinful human nature. Jesus was the only person ever to be born without a nature to sin. Jesus was perfectly sinless.
This charateristic of Jesus' sinless nature uniquely qualfied Him to be the perfect provision to remove our sins in the sight of God. Therefore, Jesus volutarily put Himself upon the cross as our provisional substitute by dying in our place before God. This was God's plan and because Jesus willingly did this, God accept that provision from Jesus by raising Him from the dead in bodily form three days later. This is historical fact and the cornerstone of biblical Christianity. This is why Christians joyfully celebrate Easter!!!
Great question!!!
Question: Why is only that the Bible is true as opposed to other religious writings?
The Bible is the only infallibable Word of God because it was written over thousands of years, by many different human authors yet has maintained its literary integrity. How can that be? Because the Supreme Author was none other than God Himself. He indeed protects His Word from corruption. There have been no material revisions to the principles in the Bible -- ever!!!!
So now you know what is held by biblical Christains regarding the identity of Jesus and why only the Bible is true and the ultimate authority for Christian faith and practice.
Now this is in opposition to what Mormons believe about Jesus and the Bible. So what is true, Jodrey?
I am sorry that you feel we are attacking you. It is understandable why you feel that way. I apologize to you for myself and my Christian couterparts here. However, we are attempting to contrast what biblical Christianity states as to who Jesus really is compared to how Mormonism views Jesus. Jodrey, they both cannot be true. You know that. Can you examine what we say as to who Jesus is objectively? I hope you can.
Oh no, we would not be happy unless you understood who Jesus really is and what He has done for you. Once you understand that, then you will understand things much differently, by the grace of God.
Question: Who is Jesus, really?
Jesus is and always has been eternally God. He has the complete charatacterics of God in every way. He is a Divine and Supreme Being.
Jesus took on flesh and blood of humanity. Jesus came to take on the identity of man so that he could identify with man in every way except one.
The one exception that he did not take on in his humanity is the sinful human nature. Jesus was the only person ever to be born without a nature to sin. Jesus was perfectly sinless.
This charateristic of Jesus' sinless nature uniquely qualfied Him to be the perfect provision to remove our sins in the sight of God. Therefore, Jesus volutarily put Himself upon the cross as our provisional substitute by dying in our place before God. This was God's plan and because Jesus willingly did this, God accept that provision from Jesus by raising Him from the dead in bodily form three days later. This is historical fact and the cornerstone of biblical Christianity. This is why Christians joyfully celebrate Easter!!!
Great question!!!
Question: Why is only that the Bible is true as opposed to other religious writings?
The Bible is the only infallibable Word of God because it was written over thousands of years, by many different human authors yet has maintained its literary integrity. How can that be? Because the Supreme Author was none other than God Himself. He indeed protects His Word from corruption. There have been no material revisions to the principles in the Bible -- ever!!!!
So now you know what is held by biblical Christains regarding the identity of Jesus and why only the Bible is true and the ultimate authority for Christian faith and practice.
Now this is in opposition to what Mormons believe about Jesus and the Bible. So what is true, Jodrey?
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straightforward
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Jodrey...before we knew the Light...we knew darkness. Until we realize that we are in the darkness we will not know that we need to find the light.
see John. If you are afraid of different translations...as I was because of all I had been told about bad translations...try a literal translation bible. That is why I use the NASB it is as literal as I can get and it has alot of footnotes to help me see if there are any other questionable meanings for words and alot of reading helps. I would also recommend reading and comparing more than one bible to help assure you are getting the true message...but that can be really time consumming.
In the mean time:
Galatians 2:15- 21 "We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles; nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified. But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be! For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."
Galatians 5:16-21 "But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another so that you may not do the things that you please. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, IDOLATRY (worship of a false deity), SORCERY (like seeing stones?), enmities, strife, jealousy, outburests of anger, disputes, dissensions, FACTIONS (heresies), envying, drunkeness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."
Please tell me...do you think that a seeing stone is a tool of divination?
Check out Deut. 18:10 where God says it is detestable to Him.
see John. If you are afraid of different translations...as I was because of all I had been told about bad translations...try a literal translation bible. That is why I use the NASB it is as literal as I can get and it has alot of footnotes to help me see if there are any other questionable meanings for words and alot of reading helps. I would also recommend reading and comparing more than one bible to help assure you are getting the true message...but that can be really time consumming.
In the mean time:
Galatians 2:15- 21 "We are Jews by nature and not sinners from among the Gentiles; nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified. But if, while seeking to be justified in Christ, we ourselves have also been found sinners, is Christ then a minister of sin? May it never be! For if I rebuild what I have once destroyed, I prove myself to be a transgressor. For through the Law I died to the Law, so that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."
Galatians 5:16-21 "But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh. For the flesh sets its desire against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another so that you may not do the things that you please. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the Law. Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, IDOLATRY (worship of a false deity), SORCERY (like seeing stones?), enmities, strife, jealousy, outburests of anger, disputes, dissensions, FACTIONS (heresies), envying, drunkeness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God."
Please tell me...do you think that a seeing stone is a tool of divination?
Check out Deut. 18:10 where God says it is detestable to Him.
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taps
Who wants to dance?<img src="http://www3.christian
Jodrey, I think you are calling out for help. Here some things you need to know about becoming a follower a Christ. (How shall I explain this?) Please keep in mind that our goal in becoming "christian" but to develop an intimate relationship with Christ and to live with the Father. Please follow up on everything I type. Search the scriptures for yourself attend a bible study, talk and discuss salvation and love with other Christians and not just the one's on this forum. Search for the truth.
The book of Romans is great, it has everything a new believer needs to know.
3:23 For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned
6:23 For the wages of sin is death {eteranl seperation from God} but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners Christ died for us.
10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10:13 Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
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