Trump will not grant temporary protected status to displaced Bahamians

Speedwell said:

Why all the bitterness?

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I suppose it does sound that way... I'll try to cheer up.

inquiring mind said:

Regardless of what’s actually been given at this point, Trump knows they’ll eventually get the estimated $92B damages, or a large portion of it anyway.

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Regardless of what's actually been given? No, Donald is claiming that $91 billion has already been given, which is counter-factual, i.e. a lie. In the real world about $11 billion has been given. We have no way of knowing how much in future decades will be given, but I truly doubt it will be nearly ten times more.

In contrast, we spent about $120 billion on fixing the devastation Hurricane Katrina wreaked.

But hey, who’s counting... the U.S. should pay for all catastrophic destruction in the entire world, upfront and immediately without oversight, even to those with questionably honest governments, and bring all their people here until we get off our lazy rear-ends and get their countries rebuilt for them, and that year after year... right?

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Puerto Rico is part of the United States, you know.

As for the Bahamas, sure, a modest island nation should be just as able as the richest nation in the world, the only super-power, to cope with an overwhelming natural disaster. If they are small and weak, then it must be because they are not worthy, eh?

DaisyDay said:

One form, yes.
Well, that seems like a fairly good reason to extend help.

Everyone who needs help.

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On that point....the world is filled with people who need help. Filled.

If needing help is your only criteria, you could easily spend all your time and resources helping others. Pursuing your own interests then necessitates not helping some people who need help. Figuring out who you should help and why are legitimate concerns.

I'm sure a part of you does think that; if you don't have empathy yourself, it probably seems suspect in others. However, that does doesn't mean you're correct.

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Perhaps I'm just less inclined to offer up the time and money of others as help. I'm also not sure those who want others to fix problems they're concerned about are exactly brimming with empathy and virtue.

98cwitr said:

Chapters and verses please. As I recall, Christ called us to make disciples of the nations, and to me, that sure does sound like getting in folks' business.

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Stay out of other people's business:
Romans 14:1-23 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. ...
perish but have eternal life.

Matthew 10:14 And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town.

Why aren't you helping others more?
Hebrews 13:16 Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

Philippians 2:4 Let each of you look not only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.

Luke 6:38 Give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”

1 John 3:17 But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him?

Galatians 6:2 Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

Proverbs 19:17 Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.

Acts 20:35 In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’”

Matthew 25:35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ ...

Well that was easy

98cwitr said:

Also, rather a false equivalency unless, in your mind, America is a theocracy. I do believe, as you probably do, that our churches and charities are the conduit to supporting those who are poor and in need. I also believe we have enough poor and in need Americans that we need to take care of. Let's clean up our own backyard before cleaning our neighbor's.

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When people say to stay out of other people's/countries' business, they are not talking about helping, they are talking about meddling, forcing, imposing, exploiting, using, pressuring and other uses of force and imposition. When the US does something stupid like create a war in Iraq we are not helping them but rather we are hurting them, and even killing them, literally. The US should stay out of their business in that way. Just as Christians are instructed not to judge other Christians on eating meat or days of the week, and we are not supposed to force or impose our beliefs on others (converting by the sword), but rather shake the dust from our feet and not quarrel or impose or force.

Nobody complains about ACTUAL HELP from another person or country.

That's the point.

Our churches and charities support those who are poor and in need. Our country can do the same and sometimes does. As Christians, we should encourage and support in every way possible that our country be one that supports Christian values, one of the biggest of which is serving others, particularly those who need help the most.

Yes, let's help the poor in America, I agree. But not "first"; ALSO. Saying we should help only the poor in America is like saying you should only help the fight against cancer and not the fight against MS or Alzheimer's. No, all who are in need should be helped. We should do all we can do.

Some of us in the US believe in helping all we can. As a Christian, I can't help but believe in supporting that whether through my Church, through a charity organization, or through our nation's wealth. If you disagree, that's your right, but you sure haven't given me any convincing reason why I should think like you do and support the political agenda you support; not even close.

DaisyDay said:

Regardless of what's actually been given? No, Donald is claiming that $91 billion has already been given, which is counter-factual, i.e. a lie. In the real world about $11 billion has been given. We have no way of knowing how much in future decades will be given, but I truly doubt it will be nearly ten times more.

In contrast, we spent about $120 billion on fixing the devastation Hurricane Katrina wreaked.


Puerto Rico is part of the United States, you know.

As for the Bahamas, sure, a modest island nation should be just as able as the richest nation in the world, the only super-power, to cope with an overwhelming natural disaster. If they are small and weak, then it must be because they are not worthy, eh?

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And, you would send this government $92B... hmm, I'm sure glad Trump's calling the shots here.
Opinion | Corruption in Puerto Rico—Gasp!

LaBèlla said:

How can the US employ Christian values when they never agreed to serve your God? How is a country subject to your truth when they haven’t accepted Christ as their Savior?

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The US can employ Christian values because we have a democratic process whereby the people can democratically support certain values to be carried out in the implementation of legislation. We the People determine the law of the land and as I am a Christian (and many others are) we can support policy and legislation that is aligned with Christian values.

LaBèlla said:

The Jews expected Him to overthrow Rome but it never happened. They wanted the same thing you’re referring to. But He said His kingdom is not of this world.

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Where did I refer to Jesus "overthrowing" the US government? They didn't want "the same thing I'm referring to". You grossly misunderstood me, apparently.

LaBèlla said:

I understand what you mean in principle. I get it. But there’s no biblical precedent for its enforcement. We are expected to adhere to His precepts and be an example for others. But we can’t enforce the same on the wider populace.

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I don't think you do. I'm not looking for a theocracy. I'm using my vote, my say, to influence this nation to do what pleases God and I know there are many other Christians who will support the same policies. At the same time, I know there are many Christians who will not support the same policies. Doesn't matter - I am a Christian and I will support those things that serve God and do His Will. Somehow you think that means I want God to overthrow the US Government and establish a theocracy. I don't know how you got that idea.

ArmenianJohn said:

The US can employ Christian values because we have a democratic process whereby the people can democratically support certain values to be carried out in the implementation of legislation. We the People determine the law of the land and as I am a Christian (and many others are) we can support policy and legislation that is aligned with Christian values.

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I don't think any of us are against reasonable assistance to anyone, but like I said in a previous post, if you continue with your 'unlimited giving' and 'open arms policy to any and all,' at every occurrence, then the Christian influence (you're even speaking of) will eventually cease to determine the law of the land because of the numbers. It's like you're paying no attention to what we're saying.

ArmenianJohn said:

I'm using my vote, my say, to influence this nation to do what pleases God and I know there are many other Christians who will support the same policies.

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Again, just use common sense. What do you think your vote is going to be worth when the numbers are in favor of non-Christians. Wake up!... before you make us a Third World country.

inquiring mind said:

I don't think any of us are against reasonable assistance to anyone, but like I said in a previous post, if you continue with your 'unlimited giving' and 'open arms policy to any and all,' at every occurrence, then the Christian influence (you're even speaking of) will eventually cease to determine the law of the land because of the numbers. It's like you're paying no attention to what we're saying.

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You mean we'll be broke and won't be able to help any more?

inquiring mind said:

Again, just use common sense. What do you think your vote is going to be worth when the numbers are in favor of non-Christians. Wake up!... before you make us a Third World country.

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Many third world countries are substantially Christian, even to the point of having Christianity as their official religion. There appears to be no relationship between whether a country is economically "third world" or not and the number of Christians in it.

DaisyDay said:

Some people are saying that it is because there are Haitians among them and without documents we can't properly sort them, so they can rot will receive aid where they are.

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Trump's ancestors were in the KKK... the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Speedwell said:

Many third world countries are substantially Christian, even to the point of having Christianity as their official religion. There appears to be no relationship between whether a country is economically "third world" or not and the number of Christians in it.

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It's apparently hard for some of you to follow, but I'm discussing two things, our fiscal situation and/or our Christian status (or loss of it). By 'Third World,' I'm referring to our fiscal status.

FireDragon76 said:

Trump's ancestors were in the KKK... the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

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Uh oh! The Klan and Race card... the other talking points are no longer relevant.

inquiring mind said:

It's apparently hard for some of you to follow, but I'm discussing two things, our fiscal situation and/or our Christian status (or loss of it). By 'Third World,' I'm referring to our fiscal status.

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We have not got "Christian status" as such. This is not Christian nation. It is a secular nation with a lot of Christians living in it. The number of Christians will vary with circumstances but that variation will have little or no effect on our economic status. In any case, if we take in refugees from various nations in distress, some of them will be Christians and some not, so the effect on the number of Christians living here will be minimal.

Yes, I am having a hard time understanding what point you are trying to make.

Speedwell said:

We have not got "Christian status" as such. This is not Christian nation. It is a secular nation with a lot of Christians living in it. The number of Christians will vary with circumstances but that variation will have little or no effect on our economic status. In any case, if we take in refugees from various nations in distress, some of them will be Christians and some not, so the effect on the number of Christians living here will be minimal.

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Dream on.

Speedwell said:

Yes, I am having a hard time understanding what point you are trying to make.

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Yes, I can tell.

inquiring mind said:

Dream on.

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Not a dream; plain facts.

Here's another fact for you: Bahamanians are 86% Christian.

Yes, I can tell.

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Don't be so coy.

Speedwell said:

Not a dream; plain facts.
Here's another fact for you: Bahamanians are 86% Christian.

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There you go... just playing one side of the coin (fiscal & Christian). You just don't get it, do you???

Speedwell said:

Don't be so coy.

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Just fact.

inquiring mind said:

And, you would send this government $92B... hmm, I'm sure glad Trump's calling the shots here.
Opinion | Corruption in Puerto Rico—Gasp!

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Straw man with regards with what "I" would send them. This kind of argument does not help your credibility.

This government - that governor is no longer governor, their federal government is our federal government and Puerto Rico has no control over FEMA corruption.

FEMA Officials Arrested on Fraud Charges Linked to Puerto Rico Hurricane Maria Aid

FireDragon76 said:

Trump's ancestors were in the KKK... the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

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I don't see how that could be true - the part about the ancestors - as Donald's paternal grandparents were from Germany and his mother was born in Scotland. Um, were you joking?

I knew when the 'race' and 'twist it' cards were played... this discussion will be incoherent from here on.