Dixibehr50
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Where is the biblical proof for a private prayer language in tongues?
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1 Corinthians 15:55-58:
55 "O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord."
My Commentary:
Verse 55:
In Verse 55, most Christians would agree that this is referring to gaining victory over death in the sense that believers will receive a new resurrected physical body (via by Christ) whereby we will live and reign with Christ for on the new earth for all eternity. On the new earth, there will be no more sorrow, pain, etc.; For Revelation 21 says,
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." (Revelation 21:4).
For the last enemy to be destroyed is death:
"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." (1 Corinthians 15:26).
"And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away." (Revelation 21:4).
For the last enemy to be destroyed is death:
"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." (1 Corinthians 15:26).
Verse 56:
In verse 56, the "death" being spoken of here is death or destruction that has everlasting consequences for the wicked. This is contrasted with eternal life. For the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). It is an end of the wicked for all time, which is the result of unrepentant sin and unbelief in the Lord. The sting of death or final annihilation of the wicked is a result of evil men who did not seek forgiveness with the Lord Jesus Christ and in living a changed life for Him.
In the latter half of verse 56, it talks about how the strength of sin is by the Law. This would be "Law Alone-ism" without God's grace and or what He has done for us with His death, burial, and resurrection. 1 Corinthians 15 stresses the importance of the gospel (Which is Christ's death, burial, and resurrection) and it focuses on correcting the error of those who were attempting to deny the resurrection. In the resurrection, we will be walking perfectly in newness of life and sin and death will be no more. As believers, Paul tells us in Romans 6, that we can walk in newness of life now, as well. We can walk in a newly resurrected life today.
We first believe the gospel, and then we obey the gospel, by applying the death and resurrection of Christ to our own lives (or our walk with God).
Also, which "Law" is Paul referring to in 1 Corinthians 15:56?
Based on Paul's condemnation of the Old Law in other passages like in Galatians 5:4 (cf. Galatians 5:2), Paul is referring in large part to the Old Law but yet this can include in this instance as a reference to all law (including NT Law). For without Christ's death, burial, and resurrection there is no grace and mercy so as to obey God. If we are to ignore an aspect of the gospel (i.e. to ignore the resurrection) which is a part of getting initially right with GOD, there is no true salvation to which to stand upon. Our past slate needs to be wiped out. Also, if a believer stumbles into sin again on rare occasion, how do they get clean? By going to the Savior, who is our advocate (1 John 2:1), who is our Heavenly High Priest (Hebrews 4:14). For if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). For while we are told to "sin not" (1 John 2:1), we are also told to boldly come before the throne of grace to find help in time of need (Hebrews 4:16). Only in grace centered salvation can one have the victory in obeying the Lord's commands that are in effect today (Which I believe are the commands that are found within the New Testament). The Law only has strength when we are not thankful for what Christ has done for us with His death, and resurrection. When we realize the depth of the Lord's love, pain, and suffering on our behalf so that we can be forgiven through Him, we seek to show our appreciation in return by doing what He says. For it was by the grace of God that Paul labored more abundantly than all his brethren (1 Corinthians 15:10).
In the latter half of verse 56, it talks about how the strength of sin is by the Law. This would be "Law Alone-ism" without God's grace and or what He has done for us with His death, burial, and resurrection. 1 Corinthians 15 stresses the importance of the gospel (Which is Christ's death, burial, and resurrection) and it focuses on correcting the error of those who were attempting to deny the resurrection. In the resurrection, we will be walking perfectly in newness of life and sin and death will be no more. As believers, Paul tells us in Romans 6, that we can walk in newness of life now, as well. We can walk in a newly resurrected life today.
4 "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Romans 6:4-7).
This is the obedience aspect of the gospel.5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Romans 6:4-7).
We first believe the gospel, and then we obey the gospel, by applying the death and resurrection of Christ to our own lives (or our walk with God).
Also, which "Law" is Paul referring to in 1 Corinthians 15:56?
Based on Paul's condemnation of the Old Law in other passages like in Galatians 5:4 (cf. Galatians 5:2), Paul is referring in large part to the Old Law but yet this can include in this instance as a reference to all law (including NT Law). For without Christ's death, burial, and resurrection there is no grace and mercy so as to obey God. If we are to ignore an aspect of the gospel (i.e. to ignore the resurrection) which is a part of getting initially right with GOD, there is no true salvation to which to stand upon. Our past slate needs to be wiped out. Also, if a believer stumbles into sin again on rare occasion, how do they get clean? By going to the Savior, who is our advocate (1 John 2:1), who is our Heavenly High Priest (Hebrews 4:14). For if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). For while we are told to "sin not" (1 John 2:1), we are also told to boldly come before the throne of grace to find help in time of need (Hebrews 4:16). Only in grace centered salvation can one have the victory in obeying the Lord's commands that are in effect today (Which I believe are the commands that are found within the New Testament). The Law only has strength when we are not thankful for what Christ has done for us with His death, and resurrection. When we realize the depth of the Lord's love, pain, and suffering on our behalf so that we can be forgiven through Him, we seek to show our appreciation in return by doing what He says. For it was by the grace of God that Paul labored more abundantly than all his brethren (1 Corinthians 15:10).
Verse 57:
In verse 57, it says:
"But thanks be to God,
which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."
(1 Corinthians 15:57).
While Paul struggled with trying to keep the Law as a Pharisee before his life as a Christian (See: Romans 7:14-24), he now is thankful that he has victory through Jesus Christ (Romans 7:25) (See 1 Corinthians 15:57). For Paul tells us to put on Christ (like a cloak) so as not to fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Romans 13:14). So the strength of the chains of the Law Alone Salvationism had no more hold on Paul. They were broken by God's grace (1 Corinthians 15:10). This is not to say that Paul could think that he could sin and still be saved (by having a belief alone on Jesus) or that his future sin was forgiven him. No, no. Most certainly not. Paul was able to be grateful that his past slate of sins were forgiven, which then pushed him on in thankfulness towards his Savior. We see this with the woman who could not stop kissing the feet of Jesus and who was anointing them with her tears. She was constantly loving Jesus by her actions in the fact that she was grateful that her past sins were forgiven. She was forgiven much, and because of such, her love was great for the Savior (Which showed forth in her actions). In that moment of being grateful to Jesus, she had victory through her Lord Jesus Christ. Men have trouble when they take their eyes off what Jesus did for us. Like the Israelites were told to look at the serpent on the pole so as to have life, Jesus was uplifted upon the cross for men to gaze at so as to have eternal life and love in the Savior. Taking our eyes off Jesus leads to sin and death (Hence why even some good men of God have stumbled).
"But thanks be to God,
which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ."
(1 Corinthians 15:57).
While Paul struggled with trying to keep the Law as a Pharisee before his life as a Christian (See: Romans 7:14-24), he now is thankful that he has victory through Jesus Christ (Romans 7:25) (See 1 Corinthians 15:57). For Paul tells us to put on Christ (like a cloak) so as not to fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Romans 13:14). So the strength of the chains of the Law Alone Salvationism had no more hold on Paul. They were broken by God's grace (1 Corinthians 15:10). This is not to say that Paul could think that he could sin and still be saved (by having a belief alone on Jesus) or that his future sin was forgiven him. No, no. Most certainly not. Paul was able to be grateful that his past slate of sins were forgiven, which then pushed him on in thankfulness towards his Savior. We see this with the woman who could not stop kissing the feet of Jesus and who was anointing them with her tears. She was constantly loving Jesus by her actions in the fact that she was grateful that her past sins were forgiven. She was forgiven much, and because of such, her love was great for the Savior (Which showed forth in her actions). In that moment of being grateful to Jesus, she had victory through her Lord Jesus Christ. Men have trouble when they take their eyes off what Jesus did for us. Like the Israelites were told to look at the serpent on the pole so as to have life, Jesus was uplifted upon the cross for men to gaze at so as to have eternal life and love in the Savior. Taking our eyes off Jesus leads to sin and death (Hence why even some good men of God have stumbled).
Verse 58:
"Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord." (1 Corinthians 15:58).
What we do in this life truly matters. It is a matter of spiritual life and death. While we are saved by God's grace, we also need to enter into the Sanctification process as a part of eternal life.
"But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you,
brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through
sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth"
(2 Thessalonians 2:13).
"Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain." (Philippians 2:16).
"His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord." (Matthew 25:21).
"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30).
But it is more than just doing good works. One has to live pure or live holy in this life (whereby they do not justify grievous sin). For it is written:
"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).
And Jesus said to those believers who did wonderful works in His name to depart from Him because they also worked iniquity or sin (See: Matthew 7:23).
For we know that the work of the Lord is never in vain (in the most purest and true sense).
For the work of the Lord (done through us) is a part of eternal life.
For Hebrews 5:9 essentially says that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him.
What we do in this life truly matters. It is a matter of spiritual life and death. While we are saved by God's grace, we also need to enter into the Sanctification process as a part of eternal life.
"But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you,
brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through
sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth"
(2 Thessalonians 2:13).
"Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain." (Philippians 2:16).
"His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord." (Matthew 25:21).
"And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." (Matthew 25:30).
But it is more than just doing good works. One has to live pure or live holy in this life (whereby they do not justify grievous sin). For it is written:
"Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).
And Jesus said to those believers who did wonderful works in His name to depart from Him because they also worked iniquity or sin (See: Matthew 7:23).
For we know that the work of the Lord is never in vain (in the most purest and true sense).
For the work of the Lord (done through us) is a part of eternal life.
For Hebrews 5:9 essentially says that Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him.
You said:
I believe the Royal Law is a New Covenant Law because it is called the perfect Law of Liberty in James 1:25. I believe this Royal Law to be a focus on love. Loving God and loving others. For the Royal Law is defined as loving your neighbor as yourself (James 2:8), and loving your neighbor is one way we can also show that we are loving God (Please carefully re-read: Matthew 25:31-46, and Luke 10:25-28).
James is not referring to the Old Law here. For Paul says the Old Law made nothing perfect (Hebrews 7:19). Yet, James says that there is a PERFECT law of liberty. Liberty means freedom. This surely was not the Old Law because the Old Law was not about freedom but a strict adherence to God's laws with physical death as the punishment if you disobeyed such laws. But we are now under a New Covenant, with New Commands. We are to obey those commands that come from Jesus and His followers.
"For the law was given by Moses,
but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ."
(John 1:17).
You said:
I believe loving God and loving our neighbor fulfills that aspect of the Moral Law that can be found in the Old Law. This Moral Law existed before the Law of Moses, and it still exists today. Paul says if we love our neighbor we will not break the Moral Law like: Do not steal, do not murder, do not covet, etc. (See Romans 13:8-10).
I agree with your words here. It appears we are on the same page on this point.
You said:
Thank you;
And may God bless you this fine day today.
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Dixibehr50
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In the words of St. Paul, it it only to YOU that the Word of God has come?
There are various kinds of the gift on tongues.
One is St. Innocent Veniaminov, who went to Alaska as chaplain to the Russian American company, but stayed to lead the native peoples to Christ.
He was the FIRST European to learn their language, translated the NT into it, the Divine Liturgy and other services, as well as instructional materials.
Another with a similar story is St. Nicholas Kassatkin of Japan.
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This has nothing to do with Biblical tongues spoken on the Day of Pentecost.
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Dixibehr50
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Hence, why God is not the author of confusion.
This means that there is no private prayer tongues language.
Public prayer in tongues was the only kind of tongues that existed and it only existed for the early church as a part of a sign of judgment to the Jews.
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They were not human languages. But heard as such by those who had the gift of interpretation.
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NeedyFollower
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Hi Brother ...I am aware that the gifts of the spirit debate, specifically tongues may be a reaction to the Pentecostalism/ charismatic , etc. movements . I have visited those congregations that emphasize the continuation of the gifts , specifically tongues so I am also skeptical as to their value .
From the scriptures however , it seems clear that there was such a thing for otherwise Paul would not acknowledge their abuse .
I do want to point out a potential error though . Paul never said that speaking tongues without an interpreter is confusion. He said it is unfruitful .
Paul was actually referring to the instructions of letting the prophets speaking one by one and letting the others judge . Letting everything be done decently and in order . For example , if one who sits by has a revelation ..let the first sit down and allow the other to share . As he goes on to say " For you may all prophecy one by one . As a matter of fact elsewhere Paul says if an unbeliever or one unlearned comes in and all prophecy , he being convicted by all , will fall on his face and declare that surely God is among you .
So , the scriptures are clear but we just don't follow them in many things because it is not familiar nor comfortable .
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Singing and prayer are not exactly the same thing.
Also, I understand what I am singing, though; So it is not vain.
To my knowledge: The tongues speakers that have been analyzed today is speaking repeated words that is not based upon any real or coherent language, too.
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Dixibehr50
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Do you know of any church who is following the rules of 1 Corinthians 14 correctly?
Do they keep silent if there is no interpreter?
Do they speak at most in tongues by 2-3 people?
Do they speak in order (i.e. take turns in speaking)?
Are they speaking a real foreign language and not some jumbled words that are repeated in a haphazard fashion (that is not a real language)?
The point of the tongues speaking was for evangelism purposes.
Is that why tongues are spoken at the church you seen?
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Not interested in what some saint (outside the Bible) said. The only thing that matters is what does God's Word (the Bible) say on this matter.
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Why would I be biased? So far, folks have only brought forth two verses for their support biblically and these verses could easily be talking about something else besides a private prayer in tongues. I think it is dangerous to build a spiritual belief or practice based on such scant biblical evidence.
You said:
Surely it is not wrong of me to clarify what proper tongues speaking was so as to correct a current unbiblical belief.
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Dixibehr50
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It's funny how so many people who say that ignore verses in the Bible they don't like.
Have you ever noticed how many of the Psalms, which were intended to be sung, are actually prayers?
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This is the only place that tells us about some kind of angelic language. However, IMO it has been severely misunderstood. Angels, who are messengers of God, have always spoken in the language of the person they were delivering a message to. So in short, there is no angel language.
"1Co13:1 "If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal."
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Right. There was no instance where an angel spoke some angelic language to humans whereby they could not understand them. Granted, this is not to say that there is not an angelic language in existence, but the idea here is that Paul is using a metaphor to make a point. He is trying to say if we speak in an unknown tongue we are not truly loving and we are just a noisy musical instrument. 1 Corinthians 13 also says that we may understand all mysteries, etc. Surely this is not possible. So it is a metaphor being spoken by Paul here. He is using exaggeration to make a point about how we need to love and not speak in tongues without an interpreter whereby we would be the author of confusion. This is important to understand because Scripture says God is not the author of confusion.
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This is not biblical evidence in support for a private prayer done in tongues.
Oh, and please take note that I am always open to hearing what the Bible says. I have even changed my beliefs based on the light of what Scripture says. However, the problem you run into is that I know that you will not find such a clear verse or two to support a private prayer language in tongues.
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NeedyFollower
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No , they all have "a" preacher . They did not prophecy one by one so that all could benefit as Paul indicated . I am not aware of any body of believers who practice this . I don't attend a charismatic church but in keeping with the thread , I put a lot of stock into what Paul said . He said not to forbid the speaking in tongues so I don't . He also said that tongues was the least of the gifts . Prophesying being the most valuable .
Are their false prophets ? Yes . Are their false teachers ? Yes . Is there false tongues . Yes . False assemblies . ( according to Jesus and revelation , yes . )
Is false tongue speaking the problem ? No ...it is only a symptom .
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This is my take on the subject of tongues and just so I do not get scolded by others, I spoke in tongues in the early 80's at the moment of conversion and I knew nothing about it at the time, it just happened. That being said, as a new believer I took that experience with me privately during my morning worship. Everyday I would say things without my understanding. Finally after a period of time I realized that I was not speaking to God because He could not understand me, it was fruitless. This is precisely what Paul was speaking of when he said "to pray with your understanding". Though he said it was between you and God, I would say how can anyone speak to God without their understanding.
Now I know I run the risk of push back on this but I must tell the truth of this matter when it pertains to my own experience.
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