Is Shaking Under the Power of the Holy Spirit Demonic?

Oscarr said:

He is misquoting Scripture to try and show that jerking and shaking among believers was common among early church believers, which, according to Acts, and the teaching of Paul, it certainly wasn't.

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You are making the error of presuming that if scripture doesn't show it, it didn't happen.
Peter made the same mistake when he refused to "take eat" from a load of unclean animals, refusing to believe that God had also cleansed the gentiles.

The Scripture comments on the many miracles that Jesus did while in His earthly ministry, and there were so many of them in so many places, John could only write about the principal ones, which were examples that were repeated time and time again everywhere that Jesus went.

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Scripture is full of examples, where no previous evidence is found in the scriptures of the time.

Where did Elisha get the idea to do this outrageous nonsense from?
2Kings4v32When Elisha came into the house, behold the lad was dead and laid on his bed. 33So he entered and shut the door behind them both and prayed to the LORD. 34And he went up and lay on the child, and put his mouth on his mouth and his eyes on his eyes and his hands on his hands, and he stretched himself on him; and the flesh of the child became warm. 35Then he returned and walked in the house once back and forth, and went up and stretched himself on him; and the lad sneezed seven times and the lad opened his eyes.

If anyone was seen doing this today, he would probably arrested!

At Pentecost, the disciples were accused of being drunk, because what the onlookers could see, was behaviour that looked like drunkenness to them.
There are many different behavioural characteristics of being drunk with alcohol, and the same is true for someone who is drunk in the Spirit of God.

So for you to make judgements on what I experience when the Holy Spirit falls on me, is rather silly indeed.

timothyu said:

Man does, often to make a point.

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Except that scripture is not man's doing.
2Tim3v16All Scripture is inspired by God (God breathed) and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

Francis Drake said:

Except that scripture is not man's doing.

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Scripture is based on the word of God, inspired. Man did not take dictation from God in writing the four Gospels. There was a style of writing just as there always has been. Some to the point, some poetic just like in the OT. Exaggeration in this case to make a point. Otherwise everything would have resembled the Gospel of Thomas, a memo more than a literary work.

timothyu said:

Scripture is based on the word of God. Man did not take dictation from God in writing the four Gospels. There was a style of writing just as there always has been. Some to the point, some poetic just like in the OT. Exaggeration in this case to make a point. Otherwise everything would have resembled the Gospel of Thomas, a memo more than a literary work.

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I think we'll end this conversation here.

Francis Drake said:

I think we'll end this conversation here.

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Inspired being the key word.

Aldebaran said:

In the end, I was the last person standing there, which only underscored my disappointment and strengthened my belief that all the hoopla was man-made (or maybe even made by someone even worse).

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You had the nerve to not cave in to fit in. So it is with those of the Kingdom. Those of the Kingdom reject fitting in with the self serving world of man, thus becoming outcasts on the narrow path.

kundalini shenanigans

Francis Drake said:

Don't put words in my mouth @Oscarr, you should know better than that. And show me anywhere I misquoted scripture.​

You are making the error of presuming that if scripture doesn't show it, it didn't happen.
Peter made the same mistake when he refused to "take eat" from a load of unclean animals, refusing to believe that God had also cleansed the gentiles.

Scripture is full of examples, where no previous evidence is found in the scriptures of the time.

Where did Elisha get the idea to do this outrageous nonsense from?
2Kings4v32When Elisha came into the house, behold the lad was dead and laid on his bed. 33So he entered and shut the door behind them both and prayed to the LORD. 34And he went up and lay on the child, and put his mouth on his mouth and his eyes on his eyes and his hands on his hands, and he stretched himself on him; and the flesh of the child became warm. 35Then he returned and walked in the house once back and forth, and went up and stretched himself on him; and the lad sneezed seven times and the lad opened his eyes.

If anyone was seen doing this today, he would probably arrested!

At Pentecost, the disciples were accused of being drunk, because what the onlookers could see, was behaviour that looked like drunkenness to them.
There are many different behavioural characteristics of being drunk with alcohol, and the same is true for someone who is drunk in the Spirit of God.

So for you to make judgements on what I experience when the Holy Spirit falls on me, is rather silly indeed.

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Well, I side with Jonathan Edwards, who, in his New England ministry witnessed many such manifestations such as shaking, writhing around, falling down, etc. He was quite clear in his article on how the Holy Spirit acts on people, in that these manifestations happened when sinners' consciences were awakened to their sinful state and that the conviction of sin upon them was so intense that they were in agony and these manifestations occurred as they were crying out and pleading with God to show mercy on them.

He was quite clear in that there were "enthusiasts", as he called them, who manifested all sorts of outlandish "bodily affectations", which were not the result of conviction of sin, and he viewed them of being in the flesh and totally false.

Jesse Penn-Lewis, in her involvement with the Welsh Revival, was of the same opinion.

Aldebaran said:

This is true of adults too. I used to go to churches with a friend of mine who became pentecostal. I found it discouraging and depressing because everyone around me seemed to be in on some sort of secret that was being kept from me. They all had joy and excitement while I had nothing but emptiness. My friend told me that I should walk up to the front for the pastor to lay his hands on me and pray for me like others were doing during the worship, and would fall down backwards afterwards. I decided to go for it. The pastor kept nudging me backwards to get me to fall, but I didn't fall. I certainly wasn't going to fall down intentionally just to fit in. In the end, I was the last person standing there, which only underscored my disappointment and strengthened my belief that all the hoopla was man-made (or maybe even made by someone even worse).

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The only time people fell backwards in Scripture accounts was when the mob came to arrest Jesus. These were evil men who fell back under the power when Jesus identified Himself. All the other times when people fell down under the power of God was that they fell on their faces in worship or conviction. There is absolutely no evidence anywhere in Scripture where a person under the power of the Holy Spirit fell backwards. Oh yes! Old Eli, when he heard that his sons were dead and the ark of the Covenant was taken by the Philistines, he fell backwards off his seat, broke his neck and died.

Oscarr said:

Well, I side with Jonathan Edwards, who, in his New England ministry witnessed many such manifestations such as shaking, writhing around, falling down, etc.

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Nobody authorised Jonathan Edwards to become the benchmark of what happens when the Holy Spirit falls on them. Everybody is different and their reactions can be different.

When the Toronto revival hit the scenes, I pointed out from the very beginning that many of the manifestations were actually demons within the believers, manifesting in reaction to the presence of the Holy Spirit. This reaction can be seen in Jesus's ministry.

The problem with Toronto, in my opinion, was the extreme naivete of the believers when it came to spiritual warfare and demonology. Like many Christians, they rejected the idea that any Christian could possibly have a demon, so to them, the only source of the shakes and jerking or writhing on the floor had to be God.
I had been involved with casting demons out of Christians far too many years to fall for that silliness.
Over time as they grew in wisdom, and started doing the deliverance necessary, then the demonic reactions started to recede, but much of the Holy Spirit reactions remained.
But to throw the baby out with the bathwater, by calling everything demonic, is as stupid as calling everything Godly.
Both attitudes lack discernment or maturity.

He was quite clear in his article on how the Holy Spirit acts on people, in that these manifestations happened when sinners' consciences were awakened to their sinful state and that the conviction of sin upon them was so intense that they were in agony and these manifestations occurred as they were crying out and pleading with God to show mercy on them.

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Of course this is true for some people when they are convicted of sin. But that does not exclude there being a visible physical reaction when the Holy Spirit falls on Godly people, as happened with the accusations of drunkenness against the disciples at Pentecost.

He was quite clear in that there were "enthusiasts", as he called them, who manifested all sorts of outlandish "bodily affectations", which were not the result of conviction of sin, and he viewed them of being in the flesh and totally false.

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Again, so what?
"Somebody on another continent, in another era, did something we don't approve of, therefore you, in your own home, in today's time, must be sinful or deceived."

Long before Jonathan Edwards, the Quakers got called Quakers because they shook when the Holy Spirit fell on them!

People question how the elect will be deceived. Here’s your answer. One you accept a lie you’re forced to defend it and others follow.

Aldebaran said:

He told me about the manifestations and made it all sound so great.

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People get caught up in politics too. Some need to base their identity on others.

Daniel Marsh said:

why is there jerking and shaking in worship services?

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The question I ask is there a presence of the Holy Spirit when it happens? I have seen this happen and it was of the flesh and I have seen it happen when the Holy Spirit was present and it was not of man's flesh.
Most of what I have seen today is that people fall under the anointing of the Holy Spirit.
Whether it is genuine or not is not my place to say.
I have experienced the Holy Spirit's presence and broke out in laughter and couldn't stop until the anointing left. I had never laughed out loud in my life and had prayed and asked God for laughter in my life....and that night I was overcome with laughter...in fact everyone at the alter with me were soon overcome with it.
That's my only experience....it wasn't shaking but it was powerful!

It seems that many here are so filled with unbelief that they have lost contact with some basic truths.
Lk11v9And I say to you: Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and it will be opened to you. 10For everyone asking receives; and the one seeking finds; and to the one knocking, it will be opened.

And if you seek God for the Holy Spirit, you get the Holy Spirit, not demons.

11And which father among you, if the son will ask for a fish, and instead of a fish, will give to him a serpent?
12Or also if he will ask for an egg, will he give to him a scorpion?
13Therefore if you, being evil, know to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the Father who is in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those asking Him!”

And in the previous chapter, Jesus reveals that by "serpents and scorpions" he was talking about evil spirits, demons.-
Lk10v19Behold, I give you the authority to tread upon "serpents and scorpions", and upon all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you.

Those who constantly warn against many of the manifestations described so far, are standing squarely against God.
Your heavenly Father gives the Holy Spirit to those who ask.
Those insisting that it is another spirit are on very dangerous ground.
As I said previously, demons within believers may well manifest in reaction to the presence of God, just as the gospels show. These demons should obviously be discerned and thrown out.
But to claim that all reactions are wrong, fleshly, demonic, attention seeking, etc. just shows extreme ignorance