Were the angels lying?

brinny

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Dear Friend: Anything short of all remnant morsels of miracle fish and bread not being lost by the Master, I find it impossible to conceive of anything being lost by Him!

From Him ta panta, thru Him ta panta, to Him ta panta

None that are repentant and have accepted Him as Savior, that He has in the palm of His hand will be lost, for He has said so. He said NONE can pluck them from His hand.

GOOD news!!!!! Praise His name!!!

He is a GOOD God, amen?

This song comes to mind:

 
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Gideons300

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I have followed this thread with interest, because early in my Christian walk, the minister I sat under started preaching universalism.

I would in truth be thrilled if universalism were true. However, Jesus goes to great lengths to make sure we do not speculate such things. He clearly states that few will find life and shares extensively on hell. Most if not all of the scriptures used to defend universal salvation are not from Jesus Himself, which I find telling.

But.... even if it were true..... is the OP somehow convinced this understanding will make Christians more hungry for holiness and desire to be more single eyed, more devoted?

And to those outside the church, will preaching universalism make them give up their sinful lives and live for Jesus?

I suspect the answer to both is no. The next question must then be asked. Why then share it? At best it is a grey area, with no positive effects on either believers or unbelievers, and the truth is, it can instead be a stumbling block to those seeking God's face to relax in their sin, because after all, we all are good, right?

That is dangerous ground, my friend.

blessings,

Gideon
 
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brinny

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Dear FineLinen, don't you realise that the target that God is aiming for, is to save all of mankind (eventually) apparently he will miss that target, by a very wide margin....apparently.

Hey, isn't there a term for missing the mark?
Would you care to clarify?

Thanks.
 
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FineLinen

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I have followed this thread with interest, because early in my Christian walk, the minister I sat under started preaching universalism.

I would in truth be thrilled if universalism were true. However, Jesus goes to great lengths to make sure we do not speculate such things. He clearly states that few will find life and shares extensively on hell. Most if not all of the scriptures used to defend universal salvation are not from Jesus Himself, which I find telling.

But.... even if it were true..... is the OP somehow convinced this understanding will make Christians more hungry for holiness and desire to be more single eyed, more devoted?

And to those outside the church, will preaching universalism make them give up their sinful lives and live for Jesus?

I suspect the answer to both is no. The next question must then be asked. Why then share it? At best it is a grey area, with no positive effects on either believers or unbelievers, and the truth is, it can instead be a stumbling block to those seeking God's face to relax in their sin, because after all, we all are good, right?

That is dangerous ground, my friend.

blessings,

Gideon

Dear Gideon: There is only one way any individual moves into an expansion of where they dwell. That Royal Road is a personal encounter with the Livng God, anything less will leave you in your present scope of Him.

Are you aware of some of the individuals who have been grasped by the realization that our Father has a more expansive purpose than salvation in all its varied dimensions? Take a boo at the Wm. Law's, the Hannah W. Smith's, and the author of over 750 hymns we sing, Isaac Watts. These righteous individuals had an encounter with Divinity into the dangereous ground of transformation.
 
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LightLoveHope

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God is not the god of riddles.

This is an interesting statement. Jesus is a teacher in parables.
The gospel is full of contradictions. Jesus is a human sacrifice that atones for our sins yet no human sacrifices are allowed. And how does a sacrifice forgive sin and cleanse the heart and make us pure?

How can a seed that has sprouted and have life, yet die and fail to be fruitful? How can fruit be the whole reason we are in Christ, to be a full display of His love and His grace?

How can hurt defended people become those from whom love and living water flow, where hurts can be taken and bared, while love is given in response as a testimony of the transformation God has done in our hearts.

Paul described this very wisdom in the gospel as foolishness to the wise, yet the wisdom of the world is foolishness to those who know God.
 
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brinny

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martymonster said:
Dear FineLinen, don't you realise that the target that God is aiming for, is to save all of mankind (eventually) apparently he will miss that target, by a very wide margin....apparently.

Hey, isn't there a term for missing the mark?
What about it needs clarification?
About God "missing the target".

It is said about sinners who "miss the mark".

God never "misses the mark", does He?

If He did He'd be as a sinner, needing a Savior, just like us, wouldn't He?

(That's why i asked for clarification.)
 
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LightLoveHope

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Actually I've noticed more what the Bible states, that there is a battle between the kingdom of God and the darkness until the Lord's return.
Jesus and the bible warned heresies would infiltrate the churches, false prophets and false teachers would appear , some even producing signs and wonders almost deceiving even the elect.
The Bible tells us to be salt and light but it doesn't tell us to be Polly-anna. We are to occupy until He comes? that is a military term, why would that be? because we are in enemy territory but the Lord will take His bride & He will return and win the final battle and His kingdom will be on earth for 1000 yrs.

The temptations of Jesus were about wealth, power, provisions, security from harm. They are all centred around His attitude to the Father. That is our spiritual war, not with the world or the enemy, but to stay true to the King and approach things within His will. God bless you
 
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Kaon

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But if more are destined to eternal separation from God, surely that would be rigging in favor of the enemy. God will save most. This I believe

I don't think I am being clear:

The election is a REMNANT of the biological entities on this plane of existence called Earth. The Hebrews used to be The Definition of that remnant - until we went whoring against the Most High God.

The election have ALWAYS been with the Most High God, which is why not even a Universal Curse started by an archons can keep us separated from Him; He still made a way for us to be back with Him.

Every other entity that is not part of the election is categorically NOT a son of God, and was NOT part of His election from the beginning.

The election is under a curse of ignorance; very few actually know who they are and what is expected of them.

Therefore, 100% of the election will be saved. Indeed 100% have been redeemed through the actions of the Word of God.

Read the parable of the Sower, and pay close attention to see as sown on rock. There is only ONE good soil, and it represents at MOST 1/4 of everything... 3/4 is tossed.

The Word of God told us the path to destruction is narrow. Many people follow it thinking they are Believers.
 
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FineLinen

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Dear FineLinen, don't you realise that the target that God is aiming for, is to save all of mankind (eventually) apparently he will miss that target, by a very wide margin....apparently.

Hey, isn't there a term for missing the mark?
Dear FineLinen, don't you realise that the target that God is aiming for, is to save all of mankind (eventually) apparently he will miss that target, by a very wide margin....apparently.

Hey, isn't there a term for missing the mark?

Dear Marty: It is always a delight crossing paths with you!

There is indeed a word for missing the mark. We in our broken state continually miss the target with our self-originated nature that is not of faith or empowered by God by His inworked persuasion. And yes, Marty, it is a brand of sin.

The word is hamartia
 
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friend of

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Read the parable of the Sower, and pay close attention to see as sown on rock. There is only ONE good soil, and it represents at MOST 1/4 of everything... 3/4 is tossed.

But in the procession of time, as one grows in their faith, it's possible for those called to the faith to at times be as infertile soil. It's not a stagnate state. Many believers have, on reflection, realized the state of their soil and endeavored to be more productive. I feel like the parable of the souls is there to remind us to persevere until we come to the point where we are confident that we are the type of soil God desires us to be. A man may profess to be Christian at one point but then in growth led by the Spirit, come to realize how far off the mark he is, strives to attain the standing of that profitable soil. The parable does not say that those called to faith must remain as one type of soil forever. Faith is the key and the infantile of the faith may be tossed to and fro by the winds of calamity, but God wills and works in ways to bring the infantile to maturity.

I must disagree that God would cast off so many as that would be a concession to His enemy. We must keep in mind that we do not fully grasp the Judgement or how it will be. I think it is in line with a Merciful God that many will be made righteous through their testimony on that Great Day.

Further, in regard to the remnant, I believe this is speaking about the end times when the world itself will display open hostility to Jesus. Only a remnant then will be saved before Christ's glorious return. It isn't, then, speaking about the recent past nor perhaps even the here and now, but of a future. If those days be not shortened no flesh would survive. Only a remnant then will be. But it is not speaking of the totality of them chosen before the foundation of the world.
 
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Pedra

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This is an interesting statement. Jesus is a teacher in parables.
The gospel is full of contradictions. Jesus is a human sacrifice that atones for our sins yet no human sacrifices are allowed. And how does a sacrifice forgive sin and cleanse the heart and make us pure?

How can a seed that has sprouted and have life, yet die and fail to be fruitful? How can fruit be the whole reason we are in Christ, to be a full display of His love and His grace?

How can hurt defended people become those from whom love and living water flow, where hurts can be taken and bared, while love is given in response as a testimony of the transformation God has done in our hearts.

Paul described this very wisdom in the gospel as foolishness to the wise, yet the wisdom of the world is foolishness to those who know God.
Same as we are supposed to read and understand the BIble in context, you need to stop taking my post out of the context which it was written.
 
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Mathetes66

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"All true, but the message that everyone is saved is a False Gospel and it needs to be rebuked."

And that is why it says to warn a false teacher twice and THEN have no more to to with them. You have indeed been faithful to accurately handle the word of truth. You are to be commended!
 
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Pedra

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And that is why it says to warn a false teacher twice and THEN have no more to to with them. You have indeed been faithful to accurately handle the word of truth. You are to be commended!
Thank you Brother! The Holy Spirit has certainly taught me through His word since He saved me. I feel like I'm in a battle contending for our faith every day. I'm blessed to do so to serve our Lord. Jesus.
 
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"The angel said to them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people."

Fear not= phobeō mē

Glad tidings = euaggelizō

Great = megas

Joy = chara

Shall be = esomai

To all people = pas laos

The angel said, “Don’t be afraid. I’m here to announce a great and joyful event that is meant for everybody, worldwide: A Savior has just been born in David’s town, a Savior who is Messiah and Master.

Questions

1. Were the angels lying?

2. Is the mega joy announced truly for all people?

3. What does all mean?

Fear not =

Be not afraid.

Be not seized with alarm.

Be not struck with amazement.

Glad tidings=

God's kindness

Great=

Numerous/ large/ spacious/ abundant.

Intensity & degrees of great effort.

Highly esteemed by its excellence.

Exceedingly great>>>>

**Splendid: Prepared on a grand scale**

Joy=

Cause/ occasion of joy.

Cheerfulness/ calm delight.

Exceeding fulness.

Shall be=

Shall come to pass.

To all people=

The radical all of pas.

Linked with ta panta/ the all.
 
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brinny

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Fear not =

Be not afraid.

Be not seized with alarm.

Be not struck with amazement.

Glad tidings=

God's kindness

Great=

Numerous/ large/ spacious/ abundant.

Intensity & degrees of great effort.

Highly esteemed by its excellence.

Exceedingly great>>>>

**Splendid: Prepared on a grand scale**

Joy=

Cause/ occasion of joy.

Cheerfulness/ calm delight.

Exceeding fulness.

Shall be=

Shall come to pass.

To all people=

The radical all of pas.

Linked with ta panta/ the all.
The glad tidings and good news is that a Savior is born Who will reunite the repentant with a Holy God.

Praying.

Let it rain.
 
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Kaon

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But in the procession of time, as one grows in their faith, it's possible for those called to the faith to at times be as infertile soil. It's not a stagnate state. Many believers have, on reflection, realized the state of their soil and endeavored to be more productive. I feel like the parable of the souls is there to remind us to persevere until we come to the point where we are confident that we are the type of soil God desires us to be. A man may profess to be Christian at one point but then in growth led by the Spirit, come to realize how far off the mark he is, strives to attain the standing of that profitable soil. The parable does not say that those called to faith must remain as one type of soil forever. Faith is the key and the infantile of the faith may be tossed to and fro by the winds of calamity, but God wills and works in ways to bring the infantile to maturity.

I must disagree that God would cast off so many as that would be a concession to His enemy. We must keep in mind that we do not fully grasp the Judgement or how it will be. I think it is in line with a Merciful God that many will be made righteous through their testimony on that Great Day.

Further, in regard to the remnant, I believe this is speaking about the end times when the world itself will display open hostility to Jesus. Only a remnant then will be saved before Christ's glorious return. It isn't, then, speaking about the recent past nor perhaps even the here and now, but of a future. If those days be not shortened no flesh would survive. Only a remnant then will be. But it is not speaking of the totality of them chosen before the foundation of the world.

Everything that will happen has already happened. That is one reason why, on our human scale, we can be sure of prophecy. What has been prophesied has already happened; we are just experiencing the "down time"; the spiritual "synapses" that trickle down to the limbs of our reality.


Everyone that was ever in the election will be accounted for - whether they came out of ignorance in the Antediluvian world, or if they come out of ignorance just before the end. This number is sealed; the Redeemer died specifically for entities part of that election - which is why He said, "It is not for Him to give to the dogs" first. He was here to redeem the election of entities that were, and would be born under the curse of death.


This is not nearly everyone in the world, that has been, or that will be. That is part of the strong delusion; the Word of God Himself said that the path is narrow, and that many people who did miracles and wonders in His name will be rejected because He never knew them.

This is a barrier to understand if you don't take Genesis 6 for what it is. Not every human or entity is part of the election reserved for redemption. The message was always for genetic Hebrews, but since some genetic Hebrews squandered their birthrights, He is gracious to allow other tribes/gentiles to have a chance for redemption (according to the number of the election) - something that has already happened.

The "gentiles" that will be saved, and the Hebrews that are part of the election is already set; we are living the consequences that will show us exactly why and how we will end up where we will be.
 
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Pedra

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Fear not =

Be not afraid.Be not seized with alarm.Be not struck with amazement.Glad tidings=God's kindnessGreat=Numerous/ large/ spacious/ abundant.Intensity & degrees of great effort.Highly esteemed by its excellence.Exceedingly great>>>>**Splendid: Prepared on a grand scale**Joy=
Cause/ occasion of joy.Cheerfulness/ calm delight.Exceeding fulness.Shall be=Shall come to pass.
To all people=The radical all of pas.Linked with ta panta/ the all.
People need to beware of the false teaching you post.
You are attempting to put your own spin on the word of God & misinterpret this scripture.

The GOOD NEWS, aka is literally the GOSPEL---that goes out to all People - They chose whether to repent of their sins and become follower of Jesus as their Lord & Savior or not.
People who love the sin do not chose to submit to a Holy God.

Luke 2:10-15 " But the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people;
for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord."This will be a sign for you: you will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger. And suddenly there appeared with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying, "Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace among men with whom He is pleased." When the angels had gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds began saying to one another, "Let us go straight to Bethlehem then, and see this thing that has happened which the Lord has made known to us."
 
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brinny

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People need to beware of the false teaching you post.
You are attempting to put your own spin on the word of God & misinterpret this scripture.

The GOOD NEWS, aka is literally the GOSPEL---that goes out to all People - They chose whether to repent of their sins and become follower of Jesus as their Lord & Savior or not.
People who love the sin do not chose to submit to a Holy God.

Luke 2:10-15 " But the angel said to them, "Do not be afraid; for behold, I bring you good news of great joy which will be for all the people;
for today in the city of David there has been born for you a Savior, who is Christ the Lord."This will be a sign for you: you will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger. And suddenly there appeared with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying, "Glory to God in the highest, And on earth peace among men with whom He is pleased." When the angels had gone away from them into heaven, the shepherds began saying to one another, "Let us go straight to Bethlehem then, and see this thing that has happened which the Lord has made known to us."
Exactly.
 
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