I think I'm unregnerate, reprobate, vessel of wrath, despairing, tried all I can think of

diana092086 · Aug 27, 2019

I grew up in the Lutheran church going to Sunday School, church on Sundays, confirmation. When I was about 5, I did something I felt guilty about. I was upset by it, was crying, and despite my mom telling me God loves me and forgives me, I said He didn't and He hates me, my mom hates me, everyone hates me, even the animals hate me. I continued in church, Sunday School, confirmation but was never into it. I just did it to go through the motions - it's something I had to do. I have always been very introspective and self absorbed, not genuinely caring about anyone else. I also never felt like I was my own self. I always wanted to be like someone else, look like someone else, do what other people were doing. I very much observed others and wanted to be like them rather than just being who I was. I've been a perfectionist and always wanted things neat and orderly. I liked to be in control. I always liked being in my comfort zone too. I liked staying at home and watching tv. I only liked doing what I liked to do. I always talked about myself. I really never asked questions of others. My life has been all about me, me, me - I think I'm a narcissistic, psycho/sociopath. I've always felt bad about myself, like i was never good enough, smart enough, pretty enough, anything enough. I've always been timid, insecure, unsure of myself, afraid to speak up. I've always been self conscious and concerned about what others thought of me.

I had questions growing up...where did I come from? where did everything come from? if God made everything, who made God? when did He begin? I also was very worldly and had doubts and other questions. What happens when we die? Are we reincarnated? Will I come back as a cow? What if we we're nothing? What about all these other religions? Which one is right? How do I know the Bible is real? How do I know it's not a fairytale? What about aliens? What about dinosaurs?

I never had a sense of God or an inner drawing to Him. I just knew from the outside about Him. After I got confirmed, I thought I was good. I "graduated." I was a Christian. I went on to live like the world. Go to college, get my job, get my house, live the American dream. I thought that's what I was supposed to do. Other things I did like the world that I was unaware of that were bad (I knew they weren't good but thought it was okay since society did it)...I've watched scary movies, listened to hardcore rap/hard rock/other secular music, did yoga, have seen inappropriate content on tv/in magazines and books, read horoscopes, gone to a group psychic party, lots of drinking/going out to the bars, partying, pre marital sex. After some time, I did something I regretted and started going back to church. I then got heavily into sermons, books, blogs, articles, all sorts of things to make myself feel better. In 2016, I started going to a different church and got really involved there. I did mission trips, small groups, church on Sundays, served in Youth. I also was working with a life coach. I started to question why I was doing what I was doing - was I being a Pharisee? I had read much of the New Testament and knew a lot of the Bible but read it as a book and it never really "spoke" to me. When I prayed, I had no sense that God was with me. I had to work hard to imagine He was there. All the things I've learned about God have been from the outside, nothing from the inside. I fear I've "cleaned" myself up but without the Holy Spirit so a bunch more bad spirits have come back in.

Fall 2018, I came across some articles about false teachers and that scared me. I didn't know anything about that. Then I was lead to the website gotquestions. I wanted to know what a Christian was supposed to do so I looked up tons and tons of questions. I learned and learned and learned. I "confirmed" the truth of the Bible based on answers on gotquestions and other articles. I said, "Ah, that makes sense." I always tried to make sense of things. I came across some videos about the end times and got scared. That's when I decided I needed to go to a Bible based church and get into the Bible for myself. I started reading the Bible and working with a Biblical counselor. I learned tons and tons. All about what I should be doing. But I don't think I ever had a relationship with God. I never really thought I had to read the Bible either. I thought it was optional and I could live however I wanted and be forgiven. My beliefs were a mental assent.

The last 10 months or so have been awful. Living in fear and confusion. I've learned The Holy Spirit leads into all truth - that He testifies to the truth of the Bible. That didn't happen for me. I've been living by a spirit of fear and confusion. Jesus says His sheep hear his voice. I do not. I've been listening to lies all my life and not the truth. I've read when someone is saved, they're a new creation with a new heart and new desires. That's not me. I always viewed God as being angry with me- that I always had to perform for Him. I've been an obsessive, overthinking, overanalyzing, worrying, doubtful, proud, selfish, controlling perfectionist. I never sensed Him as being a loving Father. I always thought He was mad at me.

I've heard the Gospel tons and tons, know the Bible, know so much but still can't believe. I know God chooses some but not all. I think I'm a goat, tare, vessel of wrath. I live in constant fear and terror. After learning all I've learned, I'm trying to be something I'm not. I know all the things a Christian should do but it's not genuine. I feel like a fake. I don't even feel like me anymore. I have all this knowledge in my head and nothing in my heart. I don't really feel like I have genuine feelings anymore. I don't really care about anyone or anything. I don't feel compassion for others, love, care, sympathy. I can't really cry anymore, have no joy, peace, happiness- The enemy came to kill, steal, and destroy. I just feel like an empty, void shell of a person. I feel like I have no soul or spirit or my own personality. I have no desires. The only things I really feel are fear, confusion, terror, dread.

I feel like I want God to go to heaven and not hell. I don't think I genuinely want Him. (no one seeks after God. people may seek after the benefits or comforts but not God Himself. I think that's me.) I don't think I've been drawn by the Holy Spirit but by myself. I've had so many opportunities to respond to God growing up but didn't. I didn't think I needed. I didn't want Him. I would blow Him off. I think I've blasphemed Him. I think my heart is hardened to Him. I think I just regret my choices and don't have Godly sorrow and true faith and repentance. I don't even know all the things I need to repent of. I think I have to repent of every little thing about me. I overthink everything and think I need to repent of all the ways I do every little thing - like I need an entirely different personality. I'm so confused what I need to repent of ( I think everything) I think I'm so doomed. I can't escape my mind and all the things I know. Jesus says to come with childlike faith. I don't have childlike faith. I've read that it's tragic for someone to make faith. We should have God give us faith and let Him grow it. I ran ahead of God and tried to make faith. (I doubted Him, His existence, the resurrection, always doubted). So to eliminate the doubts, I learned so much. So now, I don't doubt anymore. I know too much. I don't think I'm genuine or sincere. I know too much for my own good. (More knowledge, more sorrow). I fear God has given me over to my lusts and desires of wanting to know more and more and figure things out before I trusted Him. And now I think it's too late for me. I can't unlearn things. I can't go back. I fear I'm reaping what I've sown. I don't think I was ever supposed to know all this. I don't know if God wanted me to go and learn all this. I should have just left things alone. I feel like Adam and Eve. Not trusting Gob but wanting to know things. Self-sufficient, self reliant, independent.

I think I'm just a wannabe, trying to be something I'm not. I can act like a Christian and do the things, but it doesn't mean I'm different on the inside. I can't fool God. I think I'm just deceiving myself. I've tried to believe. People say you can't make yourself believe. If you try to make yourself believe, you won't. I've tried so much. I've talked to so many pastors, counselors, other Christians, read so many books, blogs, articles. Someone said that people can read the Bible...true believers will find God, unbelievers will not. I think I'm an unbeliever.

Right now, I know so much. I'm scared. I'm responsible for so much. I'm constantly thinking about what I'm thinking, saying, doing. I think everything I do is sin. I look at others and think they have no idea what's going on. But they're doing the best they can. I know so much and am not doing the best I can. I think I'm all in the flesh and without the Holy Spirit. (Many are called, few are chosen). I've been called on the outside tons, but don't think I'm chosen. I've never heard of anyone in such a situation as me. I feel like the only person who's been here. I feel so alone, hopeless, despairing, like no one understands. Thoughts of suicide are on my mind just about every day. But the I'm afraid to die and suffer. So then I want to stay here for the comfort. But I'm miserable. Do I kill myself now? Later? Wait for God to take me out? Live however I want? What do I do? I'm paralyzed in fear. Everything is in my head and nothing is in my heart. I just feel like this fearful robot full of knowledge. God doesn't want that. He wants my heart and I don't have one to give Him. I feel like a fake, phony, wannabe. I know so much and don't know how to humble myself. I have such a bad, wicked heart. So many things annoy and irritate me. I like things my way and get annoyed when things go a different way. There's nothing good about me. I'm critical and judgmental of others. I don't love God and others but i love myself. I don't think I'm God's. I think I belong to the devil. I've wanted heaven but never, ever had a sense that I was going there or that I belong there. There is nothing inside me that gives me peace, love, joy. Just fear, hate, bitterness all my life. The more I learn, the worse I get. The more I learn about God, the worse I am. I feel like I'm getting farther and farther from Him. It's hard to believe that He loves me, forgives me, wants me. I'm so overwhelmed by my mind and all the things I know and think I should do. I feel defeated and that I should just kill myself now. There is so much to work through. I don't know if I'm meant for this.

I think I could go on and on and on about all the crazy thoughts that run through my mind. It's constant. I just want to curl up in a ball and wither away. What's the point of my life? God doesn't need me. (I think that's pride). I'm so, so bad. Don't know if there's any hope for me. This has been consuming all that I am. It's all I think about. It's been this way for months. And I know so much. I've heard so much. I'm not impressed or moved by anything. I don't know what to do anymore. I feel like I should kill myself (I don't deserve to be here, I don't deserve anything good) - even that's bad to say because I think I'm just looking for comfort and sympathy. But then I'm scared to kill myself. I feel like I'm just waiting to go to hell.

Just wondering if anyone has ever heard of such a situation as this and that it turned out for the good. I feel all alone and that no one understands. Do I kill myself? Is there any hope? I fear it's too late for me. Does anyone else know they're going to hell? What do you do? I don't know why I'm posting this since I'm pretty sure what the answers are. I'm just desperate. I wish I had a whole new mind and heart.

anna ~ grace · Aug 27, 2019

There is always hope. Don't give up. Our salvation journies take years. Please don't kill yourself. You are precious to God. He does not hate you.

Presbyterian Continuist · Aug 27, 2019

diana092086 said:
I grew up in the Lutheran church going to Sunday School, church on Sundays, confirmation. When I was about 5, I did something I felt guilty about. I was upset by it, was crying, and despite my mom telling me God loves me and forgives me, I said He didn't and He hates me, my mom hates me, everyone hates me, even the animals hate me. I continued in church, Sunday School, confirmation but was never into it. I just did it to go through the motions - it's something I had to do. I have always been very introspective and self absorbed, not genuinely caring about anyone else. I also never felt like I was my own self. I always wanted to be like someone else, look like someone else, do what other people were doing. I very much observed others and wanted to be like them rather than just being who I was. I've been a perfectionist and always wanted things neat and orderly. I liked to be in control. I always liked being in my comfort zone too. I liked staying at home and watching tv. I only liked doing what I liked to do. I always talked about myself. I really never asked questions of others. My life has been all about me, me, me - I think I'm a narcissistic, psycho/sociopath. I've always felt bad about myself, like i was never good enough, smart enough, pretty enough, anything enough. I've always been timid, insecure, unsure of myself, afraid to speak up. I've always been self conscious and concerned about what others thought of me.

I had questions growing up...where did I come from? where did everything come from? if God made everything, who made God? when did He begin? I also was very worldly and had doubts and other questions. What happens when we die? Are we reincarnated? Will I come back as a cow? What if we we're nothing? What about all these other religions? Which one is right? How do I know the Bible is real? How do I know it's not a fairytale? What about aliens? What about dinosaurs?

I never had a sense of God or an inner drawing to Him. I just knew from the outside about Him. After I got confirmed, I thought I was good. I "graduated." I was a Christian. I went on to live like the world. Go to college, get my job, get my house, live the American dream. I thought that's what I was supposed to do. Other things I did like the world that I was unaware of that were bad (I knew they weren't good but thought it was okay since society did it)...I've watched scary movies, listened to hardcore rap/hard rock/other secular music, did yoga, have seen inappropriate content on tv/in magazines and books, read horoscopes, gone to a group psychic party, lots of drinking/going out to the bars, partying, pre marital sex. After some time, I did something I regretted and started going back to church. I then got heavily into sermons, books, blogs, articles, all sorts of things to make myself feel better. In 2016, I started going to a different church and got really involved there. I did mission trips, small groups, church on Sundays, served in Youth. I also was working with a life coach. I started to question why I was doing what I was doing - was I being a Pharisee? I had read much of the New Testament and knew a lot of the Bible but read it as a book and it never really "spoke" to me. When I prayed, I had no sense that God was with me. I had to work hard to imagine He was there. All the things I've learned about God have been from the outside, nothing from the inside. I fear I've "cleaned" myself up but without the Holy Spirit so a bunch more bad spirits have come back in.

Fall 2018, I came across some articles about false teachers and that scared me. I didn't know anything about that. Then I was lead to the website gotquestions. I wanted to know what a Christian was supposed to do so I looked up tons and tons of questions. I learned and learned and learned. I "confirmed" the truth of the Bible based on answers on gotquestions and other articles. I said, "Ah, that makes sense." I always tried to make sense of things. I came across some videos about the end times and got scared. That's when I decided I needed to go to a Bible based church and get into the Bible for myself. I started reading the Bible and working with a Biblical counselor. I learned tons and tons. All about what I should be doing. But I don't think I ever had a relationship with God. I never really thought I had to read the Bible either. I thought it was optional and I could live however I wanted and be forgiven. My beliefs were a mental assent.

The last 10 months or so have been awful. Living in fear and confusion. I've learned The Holy Spirit leads into all truth - that He testifies to the truth of the Bible. That didn't happen for me. I've been living by a spirit of fear and confusion. Jesus says His sheep hear his voice. I do not. I've been listening to lies all my life and not the truth. I've read when someone is saved, they're a new creation with a new heart and new desires. That's not me. I always viewed God as being angry with me- that I always had to perform for Him. I've been an obsessive, overthinking, overanalyzing, worrying, doubtful, proud, selfish, controlling perfectionist. I never sensed Him as being a loving Father. I always thought He was mad at me.

I've heard the Gospel tons and tons, know the Bible, know so much but still can't believe. I know God chooses some but not all. I think I'm a goat, tare, vessel of wrath. I live in constant fear and terror. After learning all I've learned, I'm trying to be something I'm not. I know all the things a Christian should do but it's not genuine. I feel like a fake. I don't even feel like me anymore. I have all this knowledge in my head and nothing in my heart. I don't really feel like I have genuine feelings anymore. I don't really care about anyone or anything. I don't feel compassion for others, love, care, sympathy. I can't really cry anymore, have no joy, peace, happiness- The enemy came to kill, steal, and destroy. I just feel like an empty, void shell of a person. I feel like I have no soul or spirit or my own personality. I have no desires. The only things I really feel are fear, confusion, terror, dread.

I feel like I want God to go to heaven and not hell. I don't think I genuinely want Him. (no one seeks after God. people may seek after the benefits or comforts but not God Himself. I think that's me.) I don't think I've been drawn by the Holy Spirit but by myself. I've had so many opportunities to respond to God growing up but didn't. I didn't think I needed. I didn't want Him. I would blow Him off. I think I've blasphemed Him. I think my heart is hardened to Him. I think I just regret my choices and don't have Godly sorrow and true faith and repentance. I don't even know all the things I need to repent of. I think I have to repent of every little thing about me. I overthink everything and think I need to repent of all the ways I do every little thing - like I need an entirely different personality. I'm so confused what I need to repent of ( I think everything) I think I'm so doomed. I can't escape my mind and all the things I know. Jesus says to come with childlike faith. I don't have childlike faith. I've read that it's tragic for someone to make faith. We should have God give us faith and let Him grow it. I ran ahead of God and tried to make faith. (I doubted Him, His existence, the resurrection, always doubted). So to eliminate the doubts, I learned so much. So now, I don't doubt anymore. I know too much. I don't think I'm genuine or sincere. I know too much for my own good. (More knowledge, more sorrow). I fear God has given me over to my lusts and desires of wanting to know more and more and figure things out before I trusted Him. And now I think it's too late for me. I can't unlearn things. I can't go back. I fear I'm reaping what I've sown. I don't think I was ever supposed to know all this. I don't know if God wanted me to go and learn all this. I should have just left things alone. I feel like Adam and Eve. Not trusting Gob but wanting to know things. Self-sufficient, self reliant, independent.

I think I'm just a wannabe, trying to be something I'm not. I can act like a Christian and do the things, but it doesn't mean I'm different on the inside. I can't fool God. I think I'm just deceiving myself. I've tried to believe. People say you can't make yourself believe. If you try to make yourself believe, you won't. I've tried so much. I've talked to so many pastors, counselors, other Christians, read so many books, blogs, articles. Someone said that people can read the Bible...true believers will find God, unbelievers will not. I think I'm an unbeliever.

Right now, I know so much. I'm scared. I'm responsible for so much. I'm constantly thinking about what I'm thinking, saying, doing. I think everything I do is sin. I look at others and think they have no idea what's going on. But they're doing the best they can. I know so much and am not doing the best I can. I think I'm all in the flesh and without the Holy Spirit. (Many are called, few are chosen). I've been called on the outside tons, but don't think I'm chosen. I've never heard of anyone in such a situation as me. I feel like the only person who's been here. I feel so alone, hopeless, despairing, like no one understands. Thoughts of suicide are on my mind just about every day. But the I'm afraid to die and suffer. So then I want to stay here for the comfort. But I'm miserable. Do I kill myself now? Later? Wait for God to take me out? Live however I want? What do I do? I'm paralyzed in fear. Everything is in my head and nothing is in my heart. I just feel like this fearful robot full of knowledge. God doesn't want that. He wants my heart and I don't have one to give Him. I feel like a fake, phony, wannabe. I know so much and don't know how to humble myself. I have such a bad, wicked heart. So many things annoy and irritate me. I like things my way and get annoyed when things go a different way. There's nothing good about me. I'm critical and judgmental of others. I don't love God and others but i love myself. I don't think I'm God's. I think I belong to the devil. I've wanted heaven but never, ever had a sense that I was going there or that I belong there. There is nothing inside me that gives me peace, love, joy. Just fear, hate, bitterness all my life. The more I learn, the worse I get. The more I learn about God, the worse I am. I feel like I'm getting farther and farther from Him. It's hard to believe that He loves me, forgives me, wants me. I'm so overwhelmed by my mind and all the things I know and think I should do. I feel defeated and that I should just kill myself now. There is so much to work through. I don't know if I'm meant for this.

I think I could go on and on and on about all the crazy thoughts that run through my mind. It's constant. I just want to curl up in a ball and wither away. What's the point of my life? God doesn't need me. (I think that's pride). I'm so, so bad. Don't know if there's any hope for me. This has been consuming all that I am. It's all I think about. It's been this way for months. And I know so much. I've heard so much. I'm not impressed or moved by anything. I don't know what to do anymore. I feel like I should kill myself (I don't deserve to be here, I don't deserve anything good) - even that's bad to say because I think I'm just looking for comfort and sympathy. But then I'm scared to kill myself. I feel like I'm just waiting to go to hell.

Just wondering if anyone has ever heard of such a situation as this and that it turned out for the good. I feel all alone and that no one understands. Do I kill myself? Is there any hope? I fear it's too late for me. Does anyone else know they're going to hell? What do you do? I don't know why I'm posting this since I'm pretty sure what the answers are. I'm just desperate. I wish I had a whole new mind and heart.

Your post accurately reflects someone under conviction of sin, the need for righteousness, and the fearful looking ahead to judgment to come. This is a good place for you to be in, because you have tried everything and failed to reach an assurance that you are really saved and are a child of God. Believe it or not, this is the work of the Holy Spirit in you. Why?

Because the Holy Spirit works to bring you to rock bottom, to the absolute end of yourself, and to show you that you will never get to where you need to be by your own strength. So, what you have posted is the bad news about yourself and your own efforts to be a genuine Christian with full assurance of faith.

So what now?

You have got only one person to go to: Christ Himself. The Scripture says, "The person who comes to God must believe that He is there, and He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him". Also, "If you seek God with all your heart, you will find Him." This means that you stop trying to be the Christian you want to me, and to throw yourself totally on Christ. How do you do this?

By believing His promise: "Come let us reason together, though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow". What this means is that you bypass the pastor, Christian friends, and any others you are seeking counsel from, and to come to God directly and tell him everything that you have posted in your OP. God is not shocked by anything you might say. Why not just read your post to God? Jesus said, "Come unto me all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest".

If you are looking for some type of feeling or sensory experience of God, you will not find Him that way. Strong faith is based on dependence on the promises in God's Word without anything else. Faith says, "If I confess my sins, and talk about all my conflicts and problems with God, then He will hear me, forgive all my sins and cleanse me from all unrighteousness."

I have received a lot of comfort in the Scripture: "By grace I am saved through faith, not of myself, it is the gift of God." It takes faith and patience to wait on God, stop trying to be a good Christian, and just rest in total dependence on Christ. There are many who will tell you to do this or that, and such advice has only a 50/50 chance of being right for you. The better way is to put your full trust in Christ and allow the Holy Spirit to bring you to that place of assurance where you know you are saved, that Jesus knows you personally, and that the Holy Spirit is doing the work in you that needs to be done.

ilovejcsog · Aug 27, 2019

How can you be those things? You are Gods child

ajcarey · Aug 27, 2019

I've actually been seeing many, many people on here feeling like you are. I think you've been talking to too many people and have got some very confused notions of salvation which are tormenting you unnecessarily. Know that God did not choose individuals to salvation or damnation before Creation nor choose individuals to salvation unconditionally. God has chosen all who believe on His Chosen One, the Lord Jesus Christ. And everyone who believes on Jesus Christ was previously a sinful, self-centered child of Adam who had a wicked heart and had nothing in them that God considered righteous. But it is not true that no one ever seeks after God. We are wicked until we seek God wholeheartedly and meet His terms of reconciliation acceptably before Him. We can seek God despite our wickedness because God has provided a means to reconcile us to Him through Christ's atonement and He is drawing us to Himself by His Spirit. We can cooperate with His drawing, which is not a feeling, but is more than anything else understanding of His Word and the testimony of God's Law written on our hearts and confirmed by the testimony of nature. By what you know and the pressure you are feeling to get right with Him, you are indeed being drawn. You need to cooperate with the Truth that you know, which is possible in your current wicked state, just as it was possible for Adam and Eve to heed the devil in their innocent, pure state and fall from grace; so you can heed God's voice (His Gospel call) in your fallen, guilty state and enter into God's grace and be born again through Christ's atonement. Look:

"He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy." (Proverbs 28:13)

"But their scribes and Pharisees murmured against his disciples, saying, Why do ye eat and drink with publicans and sinners? And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." (Luke 5:30-32)

"28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light." (Matthew 11:28-30)

But it is nevertheless a yoke and a burden- and there is great opposition from the world, the flesh, and the devil to taking His yoke and His burden. Yield to Him to take His yoke and His burden- and follow through with what you know He wants you to do and what you know about how He wants you to order your life. And trust Him from there to follow Him still despite your doubts, trust Him from there to have mercy on you though you feel wicked tendencies (that will yet take some time to subdue). You are not a hopeless case. The Lord wants to salvage you. I will send you a good sermon also to help clear up your confusion. You are in my prayers.

ChicanaRose · Aug 27, 2019

diana092086 said:
I'm just desperate. I wish I had a whole new mind and heart.

If it has gotten to the point where you feel like you cannot believe, repent, or pray, you need the intercession of other people.

Ask someone in your faith community to pray over you.

Of course, those of us moved by your post will intercede for you.

maintenance man · Aug 28, 2019

That's an interesting read. Thanks for sharing your struggle. You've had a difficult time and I feel your pain. I want to help but I don't think there's much I can do. Honestly, I don't believe you have a spiritual problem - you seem to have a mental health problem. Have you spent any time with a qualified therapist?

At one point you said there's nothing good about you but later you said you love yourself.

diana092086 said:
I don't love God and others but i love myself.

diana092086 said:
There's nothing good about me.

I'm not sure why I made a note of that but it struck me as revealing - although I don't know what it reveals.

Being a Christian is not a magical feeling that comes over you - it's a decision you make. Just like loving someone else is not a magical feeling - it's a decision you make. Once you've made that decision you take the steps to demonstrate that love. In the case of being a Christian you follow the teachings of Jesus and thereby demonstrate your love for him - or your decision to love him.

It sounds like you've done exactly that at various times in your life, but for some reason you continue to have doubts about your decision - this is why I suggest you may have a mental health issue that is twisting your thoughts. I hope that doesn't offend you. I sincerely want to help and I think some time with a good therapist might be useful.

diana092086 · Aug 28, 2019

maintenance man said:
That's an interesting read. Thanks for sharing your struggle. You've had a difficult time and I feel your pain. I want to help but I don't think there's much I can do. Honestly, I don't believe you have a spiritual problem - you seem to have a mental health problem. Have you spent any time with a qualified therapist?

At one point you said there's nothing good about you but later you said you love yourself.

I'm not sure why I made a note of that but it struck me as revealing - although I don't know what it reveals.

Being a Christian is not a magical feeling that comes over you - it's a decision you make. Just like loving someone else is not a magical feeling - it's a decision you make. Once you've made that decision you take the steps to demonstrate that love. In the case of being a Christian you follow the teachings of Jesus and thereby demonstrate your love for him - or your decision to love him.

It sounds like you've done exactly that at various times in your life, but for some reason you continue to have doubts about your decision - this is why I suggest you may have a mental health issue that is twisting your thoughts. I hope that doesn't offend you. I sincerely want to help and I think some time with a good therapist might be useful.

Thank you. Yes, many think it's mental health. I have OCD, anxiety, depression issues and have started going to therapy and taking medication. I overthink and overanalyze and don't know how to stop. And you make a good point - i know I'm bad based on what I've learned yet i seem to care more about myself than others. Which is messed up and really terrible. People say I'm obsessed with myself, which I'm beginning to see. But i know i can't change that on my own. Thoughts like this make me think I'm a demon or the devil himself. I just want to stop all this.

diana092086 · Aug 28, 2019

ChicanaRose said:
If it has gotten to the point where you feel like you cannot believe, repent, or pray, you need the intercession of other people.

Ask someone in your faith community to pray over you.

Of course, those of us moved by your post will intercede for you.

Thank you

Sophrosyne · Aug 28, 2019

You have similar problems I've been plagued with and that I realized my father had.
1) You fear a lot of things including others making things bad for you, having things happen that could cause you problems, having problems that you can't trust yourself to handle.
2) You don't trust yourself enough to know when a problem arises you can handle it, instead the unknown that is ahead drives you into such great fear that you try and make sure that you are ready for anything and go nuts making mountains of molehills.
3) You don't trust God to help you out of these issues when they get out of your control
Until you realize that (from experience) that you have in the past gotten through problems well, are able to get help when you come across problems that you can't handle by yourself and realize that you can trust God to help take up the slack when your problems go beyond help that is around you, including yourself.
Essentially you are falling prey to not having a sound mind, and that is not God's fault as he is the author of a sound mind. FEAR is your main enemy. I constantly have to remind myself that the enemy wants me in fear because faith casts out fear and fear can cancel out faith likewise. A believer in constant fear will have problems with their walk with God because they will fear everything.... and God when they should have faith instead.

redleghunter · Aug 28, 2019

diana092086 said:
I grew up in the Lutheran church going to Sunday School, church on Sundays, confirmation. When I was about 5, I did something I felt guilty about. I was upset by it, was crying, and despite my mom telling me God loves me and forgives me, I said He didn't and He hates me, my mom hates me, everyone hates me, even the animals hate menswers are. I'm just desperate. I wish I had a whole new mind and heart.

@Gracia Singh and @Oscarr have given you very good advice.

You just may be under conviction of your fallen nature. It seems from what you wrote you don’t believe or trust Christ to take your sins as far as the East is from the West.

You and everyone should have a fear of God. He will judge our transgressions. Yet God came in the flesh to wipe our sins away and give us His Righteousness.

He loves us so much He even says:

"Come now, and let us reason together," Says the LORD, "Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool.

That’s a promise for all who believe in Him. They will have everlasting life.

We also see:

2 Corinthians 7: NASB

10For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation, but the sorrow of the world produces death.

And:

Romans 10: NASB

6But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: “DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, ‘WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?’ (that is, to bring Christ down), 7or ‘WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).”8But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11For the Scripture says, “WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED.” 12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lordis Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.”

King David when he committed adultery and gave orders for the murder of the husband of Bathsheba was convicted, confronted by God through the prophet Nathan. Here is David’s prayer of repentance.

Psalm 51: NASB

A Contrite Sinner’s Prayer for Pardon.

For the choir director. A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet came to him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba.

1Be gracious to me, O God, according to Your lovingkindness;
According to the greatness of Your compassion blot out my transgressions.
2Wash me thoroughly from my iniquity
And cleanse me from my sin.

3For I know my transgressions,
And my sin is ever before me.

4Against You, You only, I have sinned
And done what is evil in Your sight,
So that You are justified when You speak
And blameless when You judge.

5Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
And in sin my mother conceived me.

6Behold, You desire truth in the innermost being,
And in the hidden part You will make me know wisdom.

7Purify me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;
Wash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.

8Make me to hear joy and gladness,
Let the bones which You have broken rejoice.

9Hide Your face from my sins
And blot out all my iniquities.

10Create in me a clean heart, O God,
And renew a steadfast spirit within me.

11Do not cast me away from Your presence
And do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.

12Restore to me the joy of Your salvation
And sustain me with a willing spirit.

13Then I will teach transgressors Your ways,
And sinners will be converted to You.

14Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, the God of my salvation;
Then my tongue will joyfully sing of Your righteousness.

15O Lord, open my lips,
That my mouth may declare Your praise.

16For You do not delight in sacrifice, otherwise I would give it;
You are not pleased with burnt offering.

17The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit;
A broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise.

Advice? Pray to our Heavenly Father.

Heavenly Father you have convicted me of my self centered sinful nature. My sins are great and before you. I am a damned and destitute sinner in need of Your Grace. I need Jesus as my champion. You sent Your Son Jesus Christ in Whom you are well pleased to die for my sins, give me His Righteousness and rise from the dead three days later to grant me eternal life with you. It is nothing I could ever do. How can I? You loved me so much that while I was still in my sin a child of wrath and dead in my trespasses, You made me alive together with Jesus Christ. It is by Your unmerited Grace I am saved through faith in the saving Work of Jesus Christ. You will clean me of all iniquity and sin, wiped away. It is nothing I can do or boast of. You will make me a new creation and give me The Holy Spirit as the Promise of the eternal reward. I will be Your workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

diana092086 · Aug 28, 2019

Oscarr said:
Your post accurately reflects someone under conviction of sin, the need for righteousness, and the fearful looking ahead to judgment to come. This is a good place for you to be in, because you have tried everything and failed to reach an assurance that you are really saved and are a child of God. Believe it or not, this is the work of the Holy Spirit in you. Why?

Because the Holy Spirit works to bring you to rock bottom, to the absolute end of yourself, and to show you that you will never get to where you need to be by your own strength. So, what you have posted is the bad news about yourself and your own efforts to be a genuine Christian with full assurance of faith.

So what now?

You have got only one person to go to: Christ Himself. The Scripture says, "The person who comes to God must believe that He is there, and He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him". Also, "If you seek God with all your heart, you will find Him." This means that you stop trying to be the Christian you want to me, and to throw yourself totally on Christ. How do you do this?

By believing His promise: "Come let us reason together, though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow". What this means is that you bypass the pastor, Christian friends, and any others you are seeking counsel from, and to come to God directly and tell him everything that you have posted in your OP. God is not shocked by anything you might say. Why not just read your post to God? Jesus said, "Come unto me all who labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest".

If you are looking for some type of feeling or sensory experience of God, you will not find Him that way. Strong faith is based on dependence on the promises in God's Word without anything else. Faith says, "If I confess my sins, and talk about all my conflicts and problems with God, then He will hear me, forgive all my sins and cleanse me from all unrighteousness."

I have received a lot of comfort in the Scripture: "By grace I am saved through faith, not of myself, it is the gift of God." It takes faith and patience to wait on God, stop trying to be a good Christian, and just rest in total dependence on Christ. There are many who will tell you to do this or that, and such advice has only a 50/50 chance of being right for you. The better way is to put your full trust in Christ and allow the Holy Spirit to bring you to that place of assurance where you know you are saved, that Jesus knows you personally, and that the Holy Spirit is doing the work in you that needs to be done.

I could read Him my post but it's from my head, not my heart. I've come to Him so many times. When people are born again, they have new desires, a new heart. Not me. Maybe it's not a magical feeling but there are different desires. When i read the Bible, i think I'm lead by a spirit of fear and not the Holy Spirit. I believe lies, not truth. I feel like I'm trying to make or force myself to believe. I can read Him my post. Maybe it'll just take time to know? Maybe stop trying to obey everything and try to trust Him?

anna ~ grace · Aug 28, 2019

diana092086 said:
I could read Him my post but it's from my head, not my heart. I've come to Him so many times. When people are born again, they have new desires, a new heart. Not me. Maybe it's not a magical feeling but there are different desires. When i read the Bible, i think I'm lead by a spirit of fear and not the Holy Spirit. I believe lies, not truth. I feel like I'm trying to make or force myself to believe. I can read Him my post. Maybe it'll just take time to know? Maybe stop trying to obey everything and try to trust Him?

Try a tiny prayer;

"Jesus, help me to follow You!"

diana092086 · Aug 28, 2019

I've tried that but don't think it's sincere or genuine. He knows me better than i know myself. Maybe i think i want Him but maybe i really don't.

Gracia Singh said:
Try a tiny prayer;

"Jesus, help me to follow You!"

anna ~ grace · Aug 28, 2019

diana092086 said:
I've tried that but don't think it's sincere or genuine. He knows me better than i know myself. Maybe i think i want Him but maybe i really don't.

I think you are struggling, a little, with scrupulously and doubts. We all wander away from Christ at some point. We do. We love food, money, comfort, rest, fancy stuff, and our own agendas more than what God would have for us. We all do this.

We have been saved, we are being saved, and we shall be saved. Viewing our salvation as a journey can help. As long as you long for God's mercy and presence and grace, God will respond with grace, even if you can't feel it.

Aussie Pete · Aug 28, 2019

diana092086 said:
I grew up in the Lutheran church going to Sunday School, church on Sundays, confirmation. When I was about 5, I did something I felt guilty about. I was upset by it, was crying, and despite my mom telling me God loves me and forgives me, I said He didn't and He hates me, my mom hates me, everyone hates me, even the animals hate me. I continued in church, Sunday School, confirmation but was never into it. I just did it to go through the motions - it's something I had to do. I have always been very introspective and self absorbed, not genuinely caring about anyone else. I also never felt like I was my own self. I always wanted to be like someone else, look like someone else, do what other people were doing. I very much observed others and wanted to be like them rather than just being who I was. I've been a perfectionist and always wanted things neat and orderly. I liked to be in control. I always liked being in my comfort zone too. I liked staying at home and watching tv. I only liked doing what I liked to do. I always talked about myself. I really never asked questions of others. My life has been all about me, me, me - I think I'm a narcissistic, psycho/sociopath. I've always felt bad about myself, like i was never good enough, smart enough, pretty enough, anything enough. I've always been timid, insecure, unsure of myself, afraid to speak up. I've always been self conscious and concerned about what others thought of me.

I had questions growing up...where did I come from? where did everything come from? if God made everything, who made God? when did He begin? I also was very worldly and had doubts and other questions. What happens when we die? Are we reincarnated? Will I come back as a cow? What if we we're nothing? What about all these other religions? Which one is right? How do I know the Bible is real? How do I know it's not a fairytale? What about aliens? What about dinosaurs?

I never had a sense of God or an inner drawing to Him. I just knew from the outside about Him. After I got confirmed, I thought I was good. I "graduated." I was a Christian. I went on to live like the world. Go to college, get my job, get my house, live the American dream. I thought that's what I was supposed to do. Other things I did like the world that I was unaware of that were bad (I knew they weren't good but thought it was okay since society did it)...I've watched scary movies, listened to hardcore rap/hard rock/other secular music, did yoga, have seen inappropriate content on tv/in magazines and books, read horoscopes, gone to a group psychic party, lots of drinking/going out to the bars, partying, pre marital sex. After some time, I did something I regretted and started going back to church. I then got heavily into sermons, books, blogs, articles, all sorts of things to make myself feel better. In 2016, I started going to a different church and got really involved there. I did mission trips, small groups, church on Sundays, served in Youth. I also was working with a life coach. I started to question why I was doing what I was doing - was I being a Pharisee? I had read much of the New Testament and knew a lot of the Bible but read it as a book and it never really "spoke" to me. When I prayed, I had no sense that God was with me. I had to work hard to imagine He was there. All the things I've learned about God have been from the outside, nothing from the inside. I fear I've "cleaned" myself up but without the Holy Spirit so a bunch more bad spirits have come back in.

Fall 2018, I came across some articles about false teachers and that scared me. I didn't know anything about that. Then I was lead to the website gotquestions. I wanted to know what a Christian was supposed to do so I looked up tons and tons of questions. I learned and learned and learned. I "confirmed" the truth of the Bible based on answers on gotquestions and other articles. I said, "Ah, that makes sense." I always tried to make sense of things. I came across some videos about the end times and got scared. That's when I decided I needed to go to a Bible based church and get into the Bible for myself. I started reading the Bible and working with a Biblical counselor. I learned tons and tons. All about what I should be doing. But I don't think I ever had a relationship with God. I never really thought I had to read the Bible either. I thought it was optional and I could live however I wanted and be forgiven. My beliefs were a mental assent.

The last 10 months or so have been awful. Living in fear and confusion. I've learned The Holy Spirit leads into all truth - that He testifies to the truth of the Bible. That didn't happen for me. I've been living by a spirit of fear and confusion. Jesus says His sheep hear his voice. I do not. I've been listening to lies all my life and not the truth. I've read when someone is saved, they're a new creation with a new heart and new desires. That's not me. I always viewed God as being angry with me- that I always had to perform for Him. I've been an obsessive, overthinking, overanalyzing, worrying, doubtful, proud, selfish, controlling perfectionist. I never sensed Him as being a loving Father. I always thought He was mad at me.

I've heard the Gospel tons and tons, know the Bible, know so much but still can't believe. I know God chooses some but not all. I think I'm a goat, tare, vessel of wrath. I live in constant fear and terror. After learning all I've learned, I'm trying to be something I'm not. I know all the things a Christian should do but it's not genuine. I feel like a fake. I don't even feel like me anymore. I have all this knowledge in my head and nothing in my heart. I don't really feel like I have genuine feelings anymore. I don't really care about anyone or anything. I don't feel compassion for others, love, care, sympathy. I can't really cry anymore, have no joy, peace, happiness- The enemy came to kill, steal, and destroy. I just feel like an empty, void shell of a person. I feel like I have no soul or spirit or my own personality. I have no desires. The only things I really feel are fear, confusion, terror, dread.

I feel like I want God to go to heaven and not hell. I don't think I genuinely want Him. (no one seeks after God. people may seek after the benefits or comforts but not God Himself. I think that's me.) I don't think I've been drawn by the Holy Spirit but by myself. I've had so many opportunities to respond to God growing up but didn't. I didn't think I needed. I didn't want Him. I would blow Him off. I think I've blasphemed Him. I think my heart is hardened to Him. I think I just regret my choices and don't have Godly sorrow and true faith and repentance. I don't even know all the things I need to repent of. I think I have to repent of every little thing about me. I overthink everything and think I need to repent of all the ways I do every little thing - like I need an entirely different personality. I'm so confused what I need to repent of ( I think everything) I think I'm so doomed. I can't escape my mind and all the things I know. Jesus says to come with childlike faith. I don't have childlike faith. I've read that it's tragic for someone to make faith. We should have God give us faith and let Him grow it. I ran ahead of God and tried to make faith. (I doubted Him, His existence, the resurrection, always doubted). So to eliminate the doubts, I learned so much. So now, I don't doubt anymore. I know too much. I don't think I'm genuine or sincere. I know too much for my own good. (More knowledge, more sorrow). I fear God has given me over to my lusts and desires of wanting to know more and more and figure things out before I trusted Him. And now I think it's too late for me. I can't unlearn things. I can't go back. I fear I'm reaping what I've sown. I don't think I was ever supposed to know all this. I don't know if God wanted me to go and learn all this. I should have just left things alone. I feel like Adam and Eve. Not trusting Gob but wanting to know things. Self-sufficient, self reliant, independent.

I think I'm just a wannabe, trying to be something I'm not. I can act like a Christian and do the things, but it doesn't mean I'm different on the inside. I can't fool God. I think I'm just deceiving myself. I've tried to believe. People say you can't make yourself believe. If you try to make yourself believe, you won't. I've tried so much. I've talked to so many pastors, counselors, other Christians, read so many books, blogs, articles. Someone said that people can read the Bible...true believers will find God, unbelievers will not. I think I'm an unbeliever.

Right now, I know so much. I'm scared. I'm responsible for so much. I'm constantly thinking about what I'm thinking, saying, doing. I think everything I do is sin. I look at others and think they have no idea what's going on. But they're doing the best they can. I know so much and am not doing the best I can. I think I'm all in the flesh and without the Holy Spirit. (Many are called, few are chosen). I've been called on the outside tons, but don't think I'm chosen. I've never heard of anyone in such a situation as me. I feel like the only person who's been here. I feel so alone, hopeless, despairing, like no one understands. Thoughts of suicide are on my mind just about every day. But the I'm afraid to die and suffer. So then I want to stay here for the comfort. But I'm miserable. Do I kill myself now? Later? Wait for God to take me out? Live however I want? What do I do? I'm paralyzed in fear. Everything is in my head and nothing is in my heart. I just feel like this fearful robot full of knowledge. God doesn't want that. He wants my heart and I don't have one to give Him. I feel like a fake, phony, wannabe. I know so much and don't know how to humble myself. I have such a bad, wicked heart. So many things annoy and irritate me. I like things my way and get annoyed when things go a different way. There's nothing good about me. I'm critical and judgmental of others. I don't love God and others but i love myself. I don't think I'm God's. I think I belong to the devil. I've wanted heaven but never, ever had a sense that I was going there or that I belong there. There is nothing inside me that gives me peace, love, joy. Just fear, hate, bitterness all my life. The more I learn, the worse I get. The more I learn about God, the worse I am. I feel like I'm getting farther and farther from Him. It's hard to believe that He loves me, forgives me, wants me. I'm so overwhelmed by my mind and all the things I know and think I should do. I feel defeated and that I should just kill myself now. There is so much to work through. I don't know if I'm meant for this.

I think I could go on and on and on about all the crazy thoughts that run through my mind. It's constant. I just want to curl up in a ball and wither away. What's the point of my life? God doesn't need me. (I think that's pride). I'm so, so bad. Don't know if there's any hope for me. This has been consuming all that I am. It's all I think about. It's been this way for months. And I know so much. I've heard so much. I'm not impressed or moved by anything. I don't know what to do anymore. I feel like I should kill myself (I don't deserve to be here, I don't deserve anything good) - even that's bad to say because I think I'm just looking for comfort and sympathy. But then I'm scared to kill myself. I feel like I'm just waiting to go to hell.

Just wondering if anyone has ever heard of such a situation as this and that it turned out for the good. I feel all alone and that no one understands. Do I kill myself? Is there any hope? I fear it's too late for me. Does anyone else know they're going to hell? What do you do? I don't know why I'm posting this since I'm pretty sure what the answers are. I'm just desperate. I wish I had a whole new mind and heart.

Thank you for your honesty. There is a bright, shining light in all that you have said. You confess that you are a sinner. What is so good about that, you say. God only save sinners. Please note: God saves. Your confession is all about what you have are and what you have done. You analyse yourself, your motives and your prospects for the future. None of your self analysis is doing you any good. You are tearing yourself apart for no good reason. Are you a persecutor of Christ, like the apostle Paul? Are you a murdering adulterer like King David? Have you sacrificed a child like King Manasseh? If the answer is yes, then God's grace is still sufficient. If the answer is no, you are still a sinner and God's grace is still available. God is not willing that any should perish. Just change your name to "any" for a moment. Jesus died for the total payment of all man's sin forever. He took the punishment that was due to you. God punished Jesus so that you could go free. If you owe an unpayable debt, what can you? Now if someone offered to pay the debt for you, all that you need to do is accept his generous offer. The normal reaction is great gratitude and rejoicing. You need to be born again. May I suggest a couple of articles that will help you. You will find them by searching for Christian Life Frankston, our website. Click on "Living Word". Articles 2 & 3 and probably 1 will be of great help to you.

JIMINZ · Aug 28, 2019

Hi there, Diana

It's really simple, no matter how you were raised, what Rituals or Traditions you performed Religiously that is all they were nothing more, therefore from everything you have said, "Your Not Saved" you do not have the Holy Spirit living inside of you, guiding you.

That in a nut shell is the crux of your life long problems.

You said, you were a perfectionist, that is the main issue, it is what keeps you questioning Did I do it right, did I do enough, did I not do something which I should have, see what I mean, your belief is, you believe you need to clean everything in your life up before you can really call yourself a Christian, you have always believed you were a Christian because what you did when you were younger, everyone told you, you were.

Put everything you have done as far as this issue is concerned DOWN, STOP right where you are and say.

I BELIEVE Jesus died for my sins,
I accept Him as my Savior,
Thank you Jesus!

Now that you are a Believer, because that is what a Believer is, someone who Believes Jesus died for their sins, not someone who can do all things to be a perfect Christian yet never feel anything like everyone else does.

The next step is to get Baptized as soon as you are able, I mean SOON!....Tomorrow, alright Sunday.

But you better go to a Protestant Church because you know full well the Lutheran Church will not do, Do Overs.

Mark 16:16
HE THAT BELIEVETH
AND IS BAPTIZED
SHALL BE SAVED

Once you have done those two things, there isn't any more room for doubt or fear, those are the words of Jesus, they are a promise from His to all of us who Believe, that is exactly why it is called FAITH.

If you fail to be Baptized, you will NOT become Regenerated (Born Again) Baptism is the point where you receive the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
You become a New Creature.

2 Cor. 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

You are only IN Christ through Baptism.

Gal. 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Rom 6:3-11
3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5) For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Let me explain, a Person accepts Christ as savior, that's fine, all is well and good, except one little thing, without the Holy Spirit residing within them they have absolutely no Spiritual Power in their lives, they are exactly the same as a Non-Believer except they Believe, which means nothing is going to change in their lives, because it is the Holy Spirit that does the Changing.

The transformation in a Believers life only takes place through the Holy Spirit, therefore EVERYTHING you have written in you post says you never had received the Holy Spirit in your life, and you have been POWERLESS.

Now Last but not least,

You are healed of the mental torment you have experienced your whole life,
You are free, receive your healing in Jesus Name.

Mark 16:20
And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Whenever the Gospel is Preached, it is confirmed with signs following.
Receive your healing Sister.

aiki · Sep 2, 2019

diana092086 said:
I grew up in the Lutheran church going to Sunday School, church on Sundays, confirmation. When I was about 5, I did something I felt guilty about. I was upset by it, was crying, and despite my mom telling me God loves me and forgives me, I said He didn't and He hates me, my mom hates me, everyone hates me, even the animals hate me.

A pretty self-centered and childish thing to do. Not uncommon behaviour for a five-year-old.

diana092086 said:
I continued in church, Sunday School, confirmation but was never into it. I just did it to go through the motions - it's something I had to do. I have always been very introspective and self absorbed, not genuinely caring about anyone else.

This is true for all who don't know God. It's the BIG PROBLEM between God and us. We want to be God, to be the Center of our existence, to serve ourselves. But this isn't what God made us for.

diana092086 said:
My life has been all about me, me, me - I think I'm a narcissistic, psycho/sociopath.

No, you're just human.

diana092086 said:
I had questions growing up...where did I come from? where did everything come from? if God made everything, who made God? when did He begin?

Well, the Bible has answers for all of these questions. Good answers. True answers. You - and everything else - came from God. God is not God if He was made by something else or had a beginning. By definition, God is uncreated, always existing, without beginning or end. He exists, as philosophers say, as a necessity of His own being.

diana092086 said:
What happens when we die? Are we reincarnated? Will I come back as a cow?

The Bible, God's word, says that after you die, you are judged according to how you've lived. There is no coming back as a cow. Reincarnation is a lie.

diana092086 said:
What about all these other religions? Which one is right?

This you must study out for yourself. There is no quick route to settling for yourself what the truth is about life's Big Questions. I would say, though, that God is not keeping Himself hidden. If you earnestly seek Him out, He will be found. He draws near to those who draw near to Him.

diana092086 said:
I never had a sense of God or an inner drawing to Him.

Do you think this is so because you are too full of yourself? What room is there in you for God?

diana092086 said:
After I got confirmed, I thought I was good. I "graduated." I was a Christian. I went on to live like the world.

Which should tell you that you weren't, in fact, a Christian. No where in the Bible does it say that being confirmed makes you a disciple of Christ, a Christian. You will know a tree by the fruit it bears, Jesus said. Your fruit was not the fruit of one truly in Christ.

diana092086 said:
The last 10 months or so have been awful. Living in fear and confusion. I've learned The Holy Spirit leads into all truth - that He testifies to the truth of the Bible. That didn't happen for me. I've been living by a spirit of fear and confusion. Jesus says His sheep hear his voice. I do not. I've been listening to lies all my life and not the truth. I've read when someone is saved, they're a new creation with a new heart and new desires. That's not me. I always viewed God as being angry with me- that I always had to perform for Him. I've been an obsessive, overthinking, overanalyzing, worrying, doubtful, proud, selfish, controlling perfectionist. I never sensed Him as being a loving Father. I always thought He was mad at me.

Well, this is exactly how the person you've described yourself to be will see God. He threatens you. He is God, not you; He is the One who controls everything, not you; He is the One to whom you will answer one day; He is the One who says you aren't, and never will be, good enough on your own. So, of course, to someone like you, He seems very threatening.

diana092086 said:
I feel like I want God to go to heaven and not hell. I don't think I genuinely want Him.

Well, so long as you are your greatest concern, your highest interest, God cannot be. But God will be nothing less than God in your life. You know this and simply don't want to relinquish the throne of your life to Him. But God never meant for that throne to be occupied by you. It is His throne and when He sits upon it you are as He intended you to be.

diana092086 said:
I think my heart is hardened to Him. I think I just regret my choices and don't have Godly sorrow and true faith and repentance. I don't even know all the things I need to repent of.

But, you see, you're making it all about you. You're doing here what you've always done: Put yourself at the center of things. And so long as you remain so self-absorbed, so fixed upon yourself, you cannot see God properly.

If you could change how you are, though, you would have done so long ago. But this is exactly why God must save us, why He must rescue us from ourselves. He changes us, He transforms our desires, He makes us new within. You can't do these things for yourself. Your just too weak, to self-centered, too sinful. You must appeal to God to do what only He can do in making you a "new creature in Christ." You see, all that God wants from you, He must first supply to you.

diana092086 said:
I think I'm just a wannabe, trying to be something I'm not. I can act like a Christian and do the things, but it doesn't mean I'm different on the inside. I can't fool God. I think I'm just deceiving myself. I've tried to believe. People say you can't make yourself believe. If you try to make yourself believe, you won't. I've tried so much. I've talked to so many pastors, counselors, other Christians, read so many books, blogs, articles. Someone said that people can read the Bible...true believers will find God, unbelievers will not. I think I'm an unbeliever.

Well, you're certainly far too focused on yourself. Your walk with God, though, isn't about you and your capacities to be a good person; it's about God and what He can do in you and through you.

diana092086 said:
What's the point of my life? God doesn't need me. (I think that's pride). I'm so, so bad. Don't know if there's any hope for me

Actually, acknowledging these things is where walking well with God starts. God doesn't need you. But He does love you. Yes, you are bad. Very bad. But God still loves you and will transform you, if you'll let Him. There is no hope for you in you. But there is much hope in God.

diana092086 said:
Just wondering if anyone has ever heard of such a situation as this and that it turned out for the good. I feel all alone and that no one understands. Do I kill myself? Is there any hope? I fear it's too late for me.

Of course there is hope for you. But you'll have to stop looking at yourself, focusing on you. It's only as you "look unto Jesus the Author and Finisher of your faith" that your weaknesses, and failings, and shortcomings sink from view. Consider him, let your mind dwell upon him, let him fill your thinking and heart. It is only as you do that you will begin to come free of your Self.

Philippians 1:6
Philippians 2:13
Philippians 4:8
Hebrews 12:1-3
Hebrews 13:20-21
1 Thessalonians 5:23-24

diana092086 · Sep 3, 2019

aiki said:
A pretty self-centered and childish thing to do. Not uncommon behaviour for a five-year-old.

This is true for all who don't know God. It's the BIG PROBLEM between God and us. We want to be God, to be the Center of our existence, to serve ourselves. But this isn't what God made us for.

No, you're just human.

Well, the Bible has answers for all of these questions. Good answers. True answers. You - and everything else - came from God. God is not God if He was made by something else or had a beginning. By definition, God is uncreated, always existing, without beginning or end. He exists, as philosophers say, as a necessity of His own being.
The Bible, God's word, says that after you die, you are judged according to how you've lived. There is no coming back as a cow. Reincarnation is a lie.

Yes, I've learned these things but I think as a result of learning from what others have written/said and not that I learned them myself from God.

This you must study out for yourself. There is no quick route to settling for yourself what the truth is about life's Big Questions. I would say, though, that God is not keeping Himself hidden. If you earnestly seek Him out, He will be found. He draws near to those who draw near to Him.

Do you think this is so because you are too full of yourself? What room is there in you for God?

Wouldn't that be a work of my own to "make room" for God?

Which should tell you that you weren't, in fact, a Christian. No where in the Bible does it say that being confirmed makes you a disciple of Christ, a Christian. You will know a tree by the fruit it bears, Jesus said. Your fruit was not the fruit of one truly in Christ.

Well, this is exactly how the person you've described yourself to be will see God. He threatens you. He is God, not you; He is the One who controls everything, not you; He is the One to whom you will answer one day; He is the One who says you aren't, and never will be, good enough on your own. So, of course, to someone like you, He seems very threatening.

Well, so long as you are your greatest concern, your highest interest, God cannot be. But God will be nothing less than God in your life. You know this and simply don't want to relinquish the throne of your life to Him. But God never meant for that throne to be occupied by you. It is His throne and when He sits upon it you are as He intended you to be.

But, you see, you're making it all about you. You're doing here what you've always done: Put yourself at the center of things. And so long as you remain so self-absorbed, so fixed upon yourself, you cannot see God properly.

If you could change how you are, though, you would have done so long ago. But this is exactly why God must save us, why He must rescue us from ourselves. He changes us, He transforms our desires, He makes us new within. You can't do these things for yourself. Your just too weak, to self-centered, too sinful. You must appeal to God to do what only He can do in making you a "new creature in Christ." You see, all that God wants from you, He must first supply to you.

I know all these things. I've tried to ask God/surrender to Him. I know so much. I know all these things that are supposed to happen in the Christian life but without being one. I think I'm deceiving myself.

Well, you're certainly far too focused on yourself. Your walk with God, though, isn't about you and your capacities to be a good person; it's about God and what He can do in you and through you.

Actually, acknowledging these things is where walking well with God starts. God doesn't need you. But He does love you. Yes, you are bad. Very bad. But God still loves you and will transform you, if you'll let Him. There is no hope for you in you. But there is much hope in God.

I know this too. But I don't know how to let Him. I know He chooses some, not all. He draws who He saves. He chooses, then who He chooses responds to Him. I can't choose Him.

Of course there is hope for you. But you'll have to stop looking at yourself, focusing on you. It's only as you "look unto Jesus the Author and Finisher of your faith" that your weaknesses, and failings, and shortcomings sink from view. Consider him, let your mind dwell upon him, let him fill your thinking and heart. It is only as you do that you will begin to come free of your Self.

I feel in a way this would be me trying to save myself - trying to focus on Him, dwell on Him and that I'm still without the Holy Spirit. My mind is so filled with so much about the Christian life - I'm constantly monitoring myself (thoughts, motivations, actions, words). Some people just can't believe. I really wish I could. I know I can't make myself. I'm still afraid of hell. I could "say" I want God but He knows me better than I do. He knows whether or not I really want Him. I've come across believers throughout my life and they are so confident in God. I've always asked about their faith and desired that kind of faith for myself - so I tried to learn so much to see if that would help me, but it didn't. I just don't think I'm chosen. I don't know what to do anymore. Walk away? - I really don't want to. Kill myself? - I really don't want to. I wish I just had a simple faith in Him and had that relationship. I just feel like I'm forcing something that's not for me.

Like I said earlier, I just feel empty and void too. That my emotions are not real, authentic but rather I try to react to things the way I've learned to. I've learned way too much for my own good and think I've ruined myself and any hope for any faith. I'm not really impressed by much. I feel so hardened. I know how terrible I am - I've asked God to save me so many times. I know the facts in my head but have trouble really believing in my heart. My pastor's wife said read the Word and believe it. Either you believe it or you don't. I haven't always believed it - I've questioned and have been skeptical. Maybe I'll never believe. I really want to believe - I want to go to heaven. I don't want to live in fear. I wish I wanted God for God.

I appreciate your prior responses. Thank you.

aiki · Sep 4, 2019

@ diana092086:

Do you think this is so because you are too full of yourself? What room is there in you for God?

Wouldn't that be a work of my own to "make room" for God?

You aren't a puppet. Or a robot. You are response-able - responsible - for the choices you make. In any case, I didn't suggest that you make room. I was merely observing the problem you're having with God.

I know all these things. I've tried to ask God/surrender to Him. I know so much. I know all these things that are supposed to happen in the Christian life but without being one. I think I'm deceiving myself.

I don't think you do know "all these things." Or, perhaps, the problem is that, while knowing them, you don't really understand them.

It's a certainty that you are deceiving yourself in some way. We all are. That's why God is so necessary. He peels off the blinders of self-deception that we cannot recognize we have. And these blinders must come off if we are to walk well with Him.

I know this too. But I don't know how to let Him. I know He chooses some, not all. He draws who He saves. He chooses, then who He chooses responds to Him. I can't choose Him.

Uh oh. I can see now part of your underlying problem: Calvinist/Reformed theology. There are better, more biblically-accurate, more rational, approaches to the doctrines of salvation than Calvinism:

www.soteriology101.com See also "Molinism" at www.reasonablefaith.org

You can and must freely choose God. He does the work of drawing you, convicting you, illuminating your mind to His truth, persuading you to choose Christ, but, in the end, you must choose. As I said, you aren't a robot or puppet. It won't wash, then, to take refuge from your unwillingness to bend your knee to God in the Calvinist idea of Election. It is not God's fault that you are unwilling to yield to Him; it's entirely yours.

I feel in a way this would be me trying to save myself - trying to focus on Him, dwell on Him and that I'm still without the Holy Spirit.

God has made every one of us to be conformed in some measure and way to that upon which we focus. It's just human nature. Why would God not use this characteristic to His ends in our lives? You will be conformed to your focus. If your focus is upon you, you will remain caught in yourself, growing more and more hardened in who you are. But if you'll turn your eyes upon Christ, as the Bible commands, and keep your focus upon him, human nature being what it is, you will begin to be conformed to him. Is this saving yourself? No. But it is cooperating with God in the transformation He wants to work in you.

Some people just can't believe. I really wish I could. I know I can't make myself.

Forgive me for being blunt, but this is nonsense. It is so...human of you to try to distance yourself from your responsibility to choose Christ. The fact is, you can't go a day without exercising faith in something: your hairstylist, your doctor, your dentist, the mailman, the cook at your favorite restaurant, the power company, other drivers on the road, and so on. You can believe and you do so all the time. You simply don't want to believe in God. He gets in the way of running your own life as you like, of being your own boss.

Can you make yourself want God? No. But you can certainly appeal to God to change what you desire.

I'm still afraid of hell.

And so you should be. This is the eternal destiny of all those who want their own way rather than God's, who want to be their own god. God will give each of them exactly what they want: an existence separate from Him where they can absorb themselves entirely with themselves forever.

I've always asked about their faith and desired that kind of faith for myself - so I tried to learn so much to see if that would help me, but it didn't.

Learning about God cannot make up for knowing Him personally. Knowledge of God is important, but it is not God Himself. But this is what you need. Not more facts about God, but God Himself. The problem is, you want yourself more than you want Him. This only God can change. And He will as you persist in asking Him to do so. You aren't beyond God's power to change - though I think you may want to be.

I just don't think I'm chosen. I don't know what to do anymore. Walk away? - I really don't want to. Kill myself? - I really don't want to. I wish I just had a simple faith in Him and had that relationship. I just feel like I'm forcing something that's not for me.

Well, of course it's not you. You are, left to yourself, only about you. You know enough to know you ought to be different and some part of you seems to want that, so take the small step of asking God to change you. You don't have to have some great, swelling desire to change. A tiny glimmer of interest is enough. But act on that glimmer and press God to do what only He can do in you.

None of us is "chosen" in the Calvinist sense. That's just irrational nonsense. We are elect in Christ. All those who choose him become elect in him. You can't escape being responsible for what you choose. You know the Gospel, you know the truth of God's revelation of Himself in His word, and now you are doubly responsible for what you do with that knowledge.

Killing yourself is not the answer. Yielding to God is. Are you so self-obsessed that you would die rather than submit yourself to your loving, gracious Creator?

Like I said earlier, I just feel empty and void too.

This is exactly how you ought to feel without God on the throne of your heart where He should be. When He is not seated there, you are not whole.

I'm not really impressed by much. I feel so hardened. I know how terrible I am - I've asked God to save me so many times.

Are you thinking that when you ask God to save you that somehow you ought to be instantly and forever transformed into an all-perfected saint? God saves sinners. He saves miserable, sin-cursed wretches caught up in all sorts of vile things. And when He does, He then sets about cleaning them up and deepening them in their walk with Him. This is a life-long process of transformation, however; it does not happen instantly. Every child of God comes to love God more and more over time; every child of God comes to trust Him more and more over time; every child of God comes to enjoy God more and more over time; and every child of God learns to die to themselves more and more over time.

Has God saved you? I don't know. Do you exhibit the marks of God's indwelling Spirit?

I know the facts in my head but have trouble really believing in my heart.

What does "believing in my heart" mean, exactly? Do you think the faith you have as you begin to walk with God is as deep and full as it will ever be? Will your faith not expand as you journey with God? Scripture teaches that it does. So, then, why is a small faith at the start of your walk with God an issue? It's not.

I haven't always believed it - I've questioned and have been skeptical.

So have I. Questioning and healthy skepticism is good. It's part of being a thinking, rational person. Here are some websites that will help answer your questions and challenge your skepticism:

www.crossexamined.org
www.reasonablefaith.org
www.str.org

Maybe I'll never believe. I really want to believe - I want to go to heaven. I don't want to live in fear. I wish I wanted God for God.

And what is supposed to happen as you focus on your lack of faith? Will your faith be encouraged? Will it be helped to grow by your despairing over its weakness? No. Take what little faith you have, what little desire to believe you've got and allow God to build on it. Take whatever small steps toward God that you can. He is not asking you to be a spiritual giant overnight. Like a baby learning to walk, the immature believer needs a lot of support and assistance as s/he learns to stand and gains the strength to walk and run.

I think I'm unregnerate, reprobate, vessel of wrath, despairing, tried all I can think of

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