LUKE 21 Jerusalem Discourse given in the Temple, not Mount of Olives?

Pethesedzao · Jan 23, 2019

TribulationSigns said:
Matthew 24:31
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

It doesn’t say the raptured church returns with Jesus. Rather the rapture of the elect occurs at the sound of the trumpet, especially at the LAST TRUMP. Obviously, it is not the pretribulation rapture but that is a whole different subject that I rather not discuss here. Please stay with the topic of this forum - - the replacment theology. Thank you.

I shall be returning on a white horse at the Second Coming

Pethesedzao · Jan 23, 2019

TribulationSigns said:
Matthew 24:31
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

It doesn’t say the raptured church returns with Jesus. Rather the rapture of the elect occurs at the sound of the trumpet, especially at the LAST TRUMP. Obviously, it is not the pretribulation rapture but that is a whole different subject that I rather not discuss here. Please stay with the topic of this forum - - the replacment theology. Thank you.

Jesus will gather His Elect from the Earth as well as from Heaven

LittleLambofJesus · Jan 23, 2019

Pethesedzao said:
I shall be returning on a white horse at the Second Coming

Horses could symbolize "clouds"

Pethesedzao said:
Jesus will gather His Elect from the Earth as well as from Heaven

Sounds like the great Harvest.
Notice, unlike Matt and Mark who uses the plural #3507, Luke 21 uses the singular form of #3507.
I didn't think too much of it at first, but when I went to the koine greek, it showed that form of the singular greek word #3507 is used in only 3 verses

Why does Luke 21:27 use the singular "cloud" instead of "clouds"?

< νεφέλῃ 3507>
Occurrences: 3 times in 3 verses
Speech: Noun
Parsing: Dative Feminine Singular

Luke 21:27
And then they shall be seeing the Son of the Man coming in a cloud< νεφέλῃ 3507> with power and glory, much.

1Corinthians 10:2
all were baptized into Moses in the cloud<νεφέλῃ 3507> and in the sea,

The RAPTURE of the 2 witnesses....

Revelation 11:12
And they heard a great Voice out of the heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!"
and they ascended into the heaven in the cloud<νεφέλῃ 3507>
and observed them the enemies of them.
===================================
Just like Jesus ascended in Acts 1

Acts 1:9
And these things saying, of them looking He was taken/lifted up, and a cloud<3507> did receive Him up from their sight/eyes
==========================
I would venture to say that great Voice in Reve 11:12 is coming from the one like a son of man in this verse.
[This says "one like as a Son of Man]. Any views on that?

Revelation 14:14
And I saw and behold! a cloud<3507>, white and upon the cloud<3507> one sitting like-as Son of Man,
having upon the head of Him a crown of gold and a sharp sickle in His hands.

Luke 21:27
And then they shall be seeing the Son of the Man coming in a cloud< νεφέλῃ 3507> with power and glory, much.

Pethesedzao · Jan 23, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Horses could symbolize "clouds"

Sounds like the great Harvest.
Notice, unlike Matt and Mark who uses the plural #3507, Luke 21 uses the singular form of #3507.
I didn't think too much of it at first, but when I went to the koine greek, it showed that form of the singular greek word #3507 is used in only 3 verses

Why does Luke 21:27 use the singular "cloud" instead of "clouds"?

< νεφέλῃ 3507>
Occurrences: 3 times in 3 verses
Speech: Noun
Parsing: Dative Feminine Singular

Luke 21:27
And then they shall be seeing the Son of the Man coming in a cloud< νεφέλῃ 3507> with power and glory, much.

1Corinthians 10:2
all were baptized into Moses in the cloud<νεφέλῃ 3507> and in the sea,

The RAPTURE of the 2 witnesses....

Revelation 11:12
And they heard a great Voice out of the heaven saying to them "ascend ye here!"
and they ascended into the heaven in the cloud<νεφέλῃ 3507>
and observed them the enemies of them.
===================================
Just like Jesus ascended in Acts 1

Acts 1:9
And these things saying, of them looking He was taken/lifted up, and a cloud<3507> did receive Him up from their sight/eyes
==========================
I would venture to say that great Voice in Reve 11:12 is coming from the one like a son of man in this verse.
This says "one like as a Son of Man]. Any views on that?

Revelation 14:14
And I saw and behold! a cloud<3507>, white and upon the cloud<3507> one sitting like-as Son of Man,
having upon the head of Him a crown of gold and a sharp sickle in His hands.

Luke 21:27
And then they shall be seeing the Son of the Man coming in a cloud< νεφέλῃ 3507> with power and glory, much.

The cloud is the saints accompanying Jesus

LittleLambofJesus · Jan 23, 2019

Pethesedzao said:
The cloud is the saints accompanying Jesus

Hebrews 12:1 ?

The singular form of cloud is used in only 4 verses outside of the Gospels and Revelation out of 96 verses in the Bible......

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
"cloud" occurs 108 times in 96 verses

Acts 1:9
Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up,
and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
1Corintians 10:
1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea,
2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
Hebrews 12:1
Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us,
and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
====================
However, clouds can symbolize other types:

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
"clouds" occurs 56 times in 53 verses

I believe Peter and Jude may be referring to the 1st century Judean rulers and Judaizers [who got obliterated in 70ad]. They were both writing to the Jews......

2Pe 2:17
These are wells without water,
clouds carried by a tempest,
for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.[fn]
Jude 1:12
These are spots in your love feasts,
while they feast with you without fear,
serving only themselves.
They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds;
late autumn trees without fruit,
twice dead, pulled up by the roots;
==========================
Mat 23:
15 'Woe to ye, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
because ye go round the sea and the dry to make one proselyte, and whenever it may happen --
ye make him a son of gehenna twofold more than yourselves.
33 'Serpents! brood of vipers!
how may ye escape from the judgment of the gehenna?
================================================

The word "Gehenna" is never mentioned in John's Gospel or Paul's Epistles.........

Is the "GEHENNA" of Matt 23:33 the "LAKE OF FIRE" in Revelation? Poll thread

...........................

LittleLambofJesus · Jan 23, 2019

I could use more votes on the poll..............

.

Pethesedzao · Jan 23, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Hebrews 12:1 ?

The singular form of cloud is used in only 4 verses outside of the Gospels and Revelation out of 96 verses in the Bible......

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
"cloud" occurs 108 times in 96 verses

Acts 1:9
Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up,
and a cloud received Him out of their sight.
1Corintians 10:
1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea,
2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
Hebrews 12:1
Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us,
and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
====================
However, clouds can symbolize other types:

Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
"clouds" occurs 56 times in 53 verses

I believe Peter and Jude may be referring to the 1st century Judean rulers and Judaizers [who got obliterated in 70ad]. They were both writing to the Jews......

2Pe 2:17
These are wells without water,
clouds carried by a tempest,
for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.[fn]
Jude 1:12
These are spots in your love feasts,
while they feast with you without fear,
serving only themselves.
They are clouds without water, carried about by the winds;
late autumn trees without fruit,
twice dead, pulled up by the roots;
==========================
Mat 23:
15 'Woe to ye, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
because ye go round the sea and the dry to make one proselyte, and whenever it may happen --
ye make him a son of gehenna twofold more than yourselves.
33 'Serpents! brood of vipers!
how may ye escape from the judgment of the gehenna?
================================================

The word "Gehenna" is never mentioned in John's Gospel or Paul's Epistles.........

Is the "GEHENNA" of Matt 23:33 the "LAKE OF FIRE" in Revelation? Poll thread

...........................

The cloud of witnesses are looking down us cheering us on and on and on and on

LittleLambofJesus · Jan 24, 2019

TribulationSigns said:
Some people, like the Preterists, believe the Olivet Discourse has to do with General Titus and Jersualem in 70AD while the others believe it has to do with Jerusalem within modern nation of Israel within 7 years prior to Second Coming.

The Scripture and I do not support both positions. The Olivet Discourse is prophesied about the New Testament Congregation of Israel, the Church, prior to Second Coming. The church is God's New Testament representative of His Kingdom, therefore the prophecies concern her.

Thank you for your input and especially your vote.
What evidence would you need to convince you that some, most or all of Luke 21 was fulfilled on Jerusalem and the Temple in 70ad?

Also, do you believe Revelation is talking about this event?

Erik Nelson · Jan 25, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Did Jesus give His Jerusalem/Temple Discourse of Luke 21 inside the Temple within hearing of all the people?

Chapter 20 shows Jesus inside the Temple teaching among the people, including the Priests, Scribes and Sadducees.

Luke 20:
1 It happened on one of those days, as he was teaching the people in the Temple and preaching the Good News, that the priests and scribes came to him with the elders. 2They asked him, "Tell us: by what authority do you do these things? Or who is giving you this authority?

19 The chief priests and the scribes sought to lay hands on him that very hour, but they feared the people—for they knew he had spoken this parable against them.
27 Some of the Sadducees came to him, those who deny that there is a resurrection.
45 In the hearing of all the people, he said to his disciples,
46 "Beware of the scribes, who like to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the marketplaces, the best seats in the synagogues, and the best places at feasts;
47 who devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers:
these will receive greater condemnation."

This continues into chapter 21, and Jesus is still shown in the Temple and it would appear that He gave His future Temple/Jerusalem discourse in front of all the people, including the Jewish Rulers?

Luke 21:
1 He looked up, and saw the rich people who were putting their gifts into the treasury. 2 He saw a certain poor widow casting in two small brass coins. 3 He said, "Truly I tell you, this poor widow put in more than all of them, 4 for all these put in gifts for God from their abundance, but she, out of her poverty, put in all that she had to live on."

5 As some were talking about the temple and how it was decorated with beautiful stones and gifts, he said,
6 "As for these things which you see, the days will come, in which there will not be left here one stone on another that will not be thrown down." 7 They asked him, "Teacher, so when will these things be? What is the sign that these things are about to happen?"
===========================
Now to Matthew 24

The previous 3 chapters of Matthew 24 are spoken in the Temple up to the last verse in Matthew 23 when Jesus was giving the Scribes and Pharisees a verbal lashing including condemning them to the "Gehenna" in vs 33:

Matthew 23:
1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples, 2 saying, "The scribes and the Pharisees sat on Moses' seat
33
'Serpents! brood of vipers! how may ye escape from the judgment of the gehenna?

37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets, and stones those who are sent to her! How often I would have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you would not!
38 Behold, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me from now on, until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!'"

Then Matthew 24 shows them departing the Temple, and then on the Mount of Olives, when Jesus gives His Temple/Jerusalem discourse:

Matthew 24
1 Jesus went out from the temple, and was going on his way.
His disciples came to him to show him the buildings of the temple. 2 But he answered them, "You see all of these things, don't you? Most certainly I tell you, there will not be left here one stone on another, that will not be thrown down."
3 Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling! to us, when? shall these be, and what? the sign<4592>
of the Thy parousia, and together-finish<4931> of the age.
==================================
Now Mark 13

In Mark 13, there are at the Mount of Olives, and only 4 of the Disciples come up to Him:

Mark 13:
1 And of Him going forth out of the temple, one of His disciples says to Him, “Teacher! behold what stones and what buildings!”
2 And Jesus said to him, “Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone shall be left here upon a stone, which shall not be thrown down.”
3 And of Him sitting upon the Mount of Olives, opposite the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked Him in private, 4“Tell us when these things will be, and what will be the sign when all these things are going to be accomplished?”
================================================

Is Jesus talking about the future destruction of Jerusalem and Temple in 70ad in Luke 21, and all/part of Matthew 24/Mark 13 is still future?
Or is only part of all 3 fulfilled in 70ad, and part of them still future or all of the 3 discourses are all still future.
Thanks for any responses.

.

the "everybody's right" harmonization is Mark, who positions the question occurring while Jesus was making his way out of the temple... Luke 21:37 links the Temple to the Mount of Olivet, consistent with this view

The temple was vast, and exiting the complex would have required time

apparently, the exact question with answer "not one stone will remain upon another" occurred on the way out of, or just outside of the temple... for whatever reason, perhaps the noise & din of the temple, or the difficulty of navigating the narrow exit routes, it was only after Jesus made it to Olivet, the rest of the discourse continued

Erik Nelson · Jan 25, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Yes I have and why I am tending to believe Luke 21 was fufilled during the 7yr tribulation Israel went thru when the Jewish wars started around 63ad ending in 70ad.

"Ye will hear of battles and rumors of battles" 1st century Judea

Matthew 24:
6 “And you will hear of battles and rumors of battles. See that you are not troubled;
for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

Mark 13:
7 “But when you hear of battles and rumors of battles, do not be troubled;
for such things must happen, but the end is not yet.

Luke 21:
9 “But when you hear of battles and commotions/tumults, do not be terrified;
for these things must come to pass first, but the end is not immediate.”
==================================
Luke 19 also goes into more detail:

Luke 21:20
Whenever yet may be seeing the Jerusalem surrounded by war-troops, then be knowing that come nigh<1448> desolating<2050> of Her

Luke 19:
41 And as He nears, beholding the City, and He laments on Her,
42 saying, "That if Thou knew and Thou, even indeed in the day, this, the toward peace of Thee,
now yet it was hid from Thy eyes.
43 That shall be arriving days upon Thee,
and Thy enemies shall be casting up a rampart/siege-work to Thee
and shall be encompassing Thee,

https://www.preteristarchive.com/timeline_theological/
Visual Timeline of the Roman-Jewish War: Theology

The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD

History records few events more generally interesting than the destruction of Jerusalem, and the subversion of the Jewish state, by the arms of the Romans. -- Their intimate connexion with the dissolution of the Levitical economy, and the establishment of Christianity in the world ; the striking verification which they afford of so many of the prophecies, both of the Old and New Testament, and the powerful arguments of the divine authority of the Scriptures which are thence derived ; the solemn warnings and admonitions which they hold out to all nations, but especially such as are favoured with the light and blessings of REVELATION ;... Many eminent and learned men have employed their pens in the illustration of it ; but the fruits of their labours are, for the most part, contained in large and expensive works, out of the reach of numbers, to whom the discussion might prove equally interesting and improving.
==============================================
Some great vids a person created for that event

Best viewed FULL SCREEN

.

The Romans set up camp on the Mount of Olives directly opposite the Temple, the heart of the resistance:

LittleLambofJesus · Jan 25, 2019

Erik Nelson said:
The Romans set up camp on the Mount of Olives directly opposite the Temple, the heart of the resistance:

View attachment 249973

Great post.
How did you post screen shots from those utube vids?
Very impressive, and I like it.
Thks for posting them.
[Feel free to PM me the info if you like.]

Erik Nelson · Jan 25, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Great post.
How did you post screen shots from those utube vids?
Very impressive, and I like it.
Thks for posting them.
[Feel free to PM me the info if you like.]

Water Management in Herod's Temple
http://www.askelm.com/TempBook/Temples031.pdf

The Haram al Sharif is 280m = 920' on its southern side

Josephus stated the temple was 600' south of the fortress... from the full screen WINDOWS KEY + PRNT SCRN screen capture, exactly 600' south is a large open squarish region where Dr. Martin positions the lost temple

fact remains, Jews fought the Romans, and the Romans won
the Romans destroyed the temple
there were two structures (Fortress Antonia + Temple)
now there is one structure
which is it, the Roman fortress which Titus preserved as his HQ?
or the Jewish temple which the Romans burned and tore down, but which still stands showing no obvious signs of thousands of degrees of fire & heat?

one structure must be imagined into existence... the vicissitudes of time have been harder on one structure... which one is more likely to be harder to find? The victorious Romans' fortress, or the vanquished's temple?

calling the Wailing Wall part of Herod's temple appears to be obvious OD-prophesy-of-Jesus-denying wishful thinking

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 13, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Thank you sharing that.
Which part/s do you view as fulfilled in 70ad?
.

Douggg said:
Matthew 24:1-2 70AD
Matthew 24:3- 14 historic up to Jesus's return.
Matthew 24:15-31 end times, with verse 15 (the AOD) beginning on day 1185 of the 7 years.

Mark 13:1-2 70AD
Mark 13:5-13 historic to present
Mark 13:14-27 end times, with verse 14 (the AOD) beginning on day 1185 of the 7 years
Mark 13:28-32 end times, parable of the fig tree, rapture/resurrection event, no one knows the day nor hour.

Luke 21:6-19 historic up to Jesus's return
Luke 21:20-23 70AD
Luke 21:24 historic to present
Luke 21:25-26 during the great tribulation, end times
Luke 21:27 Jesus's Second coming at the end of the great tribulation
Luke 21:28 end times, right now - the present
Luke 21:29-36 end times, parable of the fig tree, before the Day of the Lord.

Part historic to us; part in 70 AD; and part in the end times, which we are living in right now.[/QUOTE]Not sure how you can justify seperating Luke 21:20-23 from the other 2.
Why would Jesus confuse His followers and us like that?

Matthew 24:15
Whenever then ye may be seeing the abomination<946> of the desolation/ἐρημώσεως<2050>.......
Mark 13:14
Whenever yet ye may be seeing see the abomination<946> of the desolation/ἐρημώσεως<2050>
Luke 21:20
Whenever yet may be seeing the Jerusalem surrounded by war-troops,
then be knowing that come nigh desolating/ἐρήμωσις<2050> of Her

Matthew 24:16
then those in the Judea let them be fleeing! into the mountains
Mark 13:14
Whenever yet ye may be seeing see the abomination of the desolation<2050>, the one being declared by Daniel the prophet, standing where it is not binding, (whoever is reading let him be understanding!)
Then those in the Judea, let them be fleeing into the mountains
Luke 21:
21 then those in the Judea, let them be fleeing into the mountains;
and those in midst of Her, let them be coming out to country;
and those in the countries placed, let them not come be entering into Her
22 That days of vengeance these are, of the to be fulfilled<4130> all the having been written 23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great Distress in the land and Wrath upon this people.

Matthew 24:19
Woe yet to those pregnant,
and to those giving suck in those the days
Mark 13:17
Woe yet to those pregnant,
and to those giving suck in those the days
Luke 21:23
Woe yet to those pregnant,
and to those giving suck in those the days
for there shall be great distress on the land and wrath on this people;

Douggg · Aug 13, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Not sure how you can justify seperating Luke 21:20-23 from the other 2.

Here's how I separate the end times verses from the 70 ad verses.

I would like for you to look at four verses for me, okay? Because I am going to link all four together real easy to understand.

Daniel 12:11-12, about the AoD, the 1290 days, and the 1335 days.

Matthew 24:15, Jesus speaking about the AoD.

And Matthew 24:30.

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven (on the 1290th day): and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory (on the 1335th day).

Everything seems to be referenced off the AoD placed in the holy place (the temple), Jesus referred to in Matthew 24:15.

(how easy is this to understand?)

The AoD placed in the temple - then 1290 days to the sign of the Son of Man in heaven.

The AoD placed in the temple - then 1335 days to the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Daniel 12 is time of the end, when travel and knowledge are increased. That means not in first century, for those verses, Daniel 12:11-12, Matthew 24:15, 24:30.
_______________________________________________________

What happens during the 45 days period between that the world sees the sign of the Son of Man in heaven (the 1290th day) and Jesus coming in the clouds of heaven in great power and glory (the 1335th day)? (everything is measured from the AoD placed in the temple)

The kings of the earth, use those 45 days to gather their armies at Armageddon to prepare to make war on Jesus.

Erik Nelson · Aug 14, 2019

Early Documents in the Debate Over Preterism: The Didache • by Gary DeMar • The American Vision

Didache dates to 50-70ad Antioch

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 15, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
Thank you sharing that.
Which part/s do you view as fulfilled in 70ad?

Douggg said:
Matthew 24:1-2 70AD
Matthew 24:3- 14 historic up to Jesus's return.
Matthew 24:15-31 end times, with verse 15 (the AOD) beginning on day 1185 of the 7 years.

Luke 21:6-19 historic up to Jesus's return
Luke 21:20-23 70AD
Luke 21:24 historic to present
Luke 21:25-26 during the great tribulation, end times
Luke 21:27 Jesus's Second coming at the end of the great tribulation
Luke 21:28 end times, right now - the present
Luke 21:29-36 end times, parable of the fig tree, before the Day of the Lord.

Mark 13:1-2 70AD
Mark 13:5-13 historic to present
Mark 13:14-27 end times, with verse 14 (the AOD) beginning on day 1185 of the 7 years
Mark 13:28-32 end times, parable of the fig tree, rapture/resurrection event, no one knows the day nor hour.

LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
Not sure how you can justify seperating Luke 21:20-23 from the other 2.

Douggg said:
Here's how I separate the end times verses from the 70 ad verses.

I would like for you to look at four verses for me, okay? Because I am going to link all four together real easy to understand.
Daniel 12:11-12, about the AoD, the 1290 days, and the 1335 days.
Matthew 24:15, Jesus speaking about the AoD.
And Matthew 24:30.

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven (on the 1290th day): and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory (on the 1335th day).

Everything seems to be referenced off the AoD placed in the holy place (the temple), Jesus referred to in Matthew 24:15.
(how easy is this to understand?)
The AoD placed in the temple - then 1290 days to the sign of the Son of Man in heaven.
The AoD placed in the temple - then 1335 days to the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Daniel 12 is time of the end, when travel and knowledge are increased. That means not in first century, for those verses, Daniel 12:11-12, Matthew 24:15, 24:30.
_______________________________________________________
What happens during the 45 days period between that the world sees the sign of the Son of Man in heaven (the 1290th day) and Jesus coming in the clouds of heaven in great power and glory (the 1335th day)? (everything is measured from the AoD placed in the temple)

The kings of the earth, use those 45 days to gather their armies at Armageddon to prepare to make war on Jesus.

Informative post.

Are you denying that Matthew 24:28 was fulfilled in 70ad?

"WHERE THE BODY is, there the EAGLES be gathered" Matt 24 Luke 17-- and Revelation

4430. ptoma from the alternate of 4098;
a ruin, i.e. (specially), lifeless body (corpse, carrion):--dead body, carcase, corpse.
G4430 πτῶμα (ptōma), occurs 5 times in 4 verses

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized- Poll Thread

Matthew 24:28
for wherever the corpse<4430> may be,
there shall the eagles/vultures<105> be gathered together.

4983 soma from 4982;
the body (as a sound whole), used in a very wide application, literally or figuratively:--bodily, body, slave
G4983 σῶμα (sōma), occurs 146 times in 122 verses

Luke 17:37
And they answering say to him, 'Where, sir?'
and He saith to them, 'Where the body<4983> is,
there will the eagles/vultures<105> be gathered together.'

Berean Tim · Aug 15, 2019

LittleLambofJesus said:
Did Jesus give His Jerusalem/Temple Discourse of Luke 21 inside the Temple within hearing of all the people?

Chapter 20 shows Jesus inside the Temple teaching among the people, including the Priests, Scribes and Sadducees.

Luke 20:
1 It happened on one of those days, as he was teaching the people in the Temple and preaching the Good News, that the priests and scribes came to him with the elders. 2They asked him, "Tell us: by what authority do you do these things? Or who is giving you this authority?

19 The chief priests and the scribes sought to lay hands on him that very hour, but they feared the people—for they knew he had spoken this parable against them.
27 Some of the Sadducees came to him, those who deny that there is a resurrection.
45 In the hearing of all the people, he said to his disciples,
46 "Beware of the scribes, who like to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the marketplaces, the best seats in the synagogues, and the best places at feasts;
47 who devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayers:
these will receive greater condemnation."

This continues into chapter 21, and Jesus is still shown in the Temple and it would appear that He gave His future Temple/Jerusalem discourse in front of all the people, including the Jewish Rulers?

Luke 21:
1 He looked up, and saw the rich people who were putting their gifts into the treasury. 2 He saw a certain poor widow casting in two small brass coins. 3 He said, "Truly I tell you, this poor widow put in more than all of them, 4 for all these put in gifts for God from their abundance, but she, out of her poverty, put in all that she had to live on."

5 As some were talking about the temple and how it was decorated with beautiful stones and gifts, he said,
6 "As for these things which you see, the days will come, in which there will not be left here one stone on another that will not be thrown down." 7 They asked him, "Teacher, so when will these things be? What is the sign that these things are about to happen?"
===========================
Now to Matthew 24

The previous 3 chapters of Matthew 24 are spoken in the Temple up to the last verse in Matthew 23 when Jesus was giving the Scribes and Pharisees a verbal lashing including condemning them to the "Gehenna" in vs 33:

Matthew 23:
1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to his disciples, 2 saying, "The scribes and the Pharisees sat on Moses' seat
33
'Serpents! brood of vipers! how may ye escape from the judgment of the gehenna?

37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets, and stones those who are sent to her! How often I would have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you would not!
38 Behold, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me from now on, until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!'"

Then Matthew 24 shows them departing the Temple, and then on the Mount of Olives, when Jesus gives His Temple/Jerusalem discourse:

Matthew 24
1 Jesus went out from the temple, and was going on his way.
His disciples came to him to show him the buildings of the temple. 2 But he answered them, "You see all of these things, don't you? Most certainly I tell you, there will not be left here one stone on another, that will not be thrown down."
3 Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling! to us, when? shall these be, and what? the sign<4592>
of the Thy parousia, and together-finish<4931> of the age.
==================================
Now Mark 13

In Mark 13, there are at the Mount of Olives, and only 4 of the Disciples come up to Him:

Mark 13:
1 And of Him going forth out of the temple, one of His disciples says to Him, “Teacher! behold what stones and what buildings!”
2 And Jesus said to him, “Do you see these great buildings? Not one stone shall be left here upon a stone, which shall not be thrown down.”
3 And of Him sitting upon the Mount of Olives, opposite the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked Him in private, 4“Tell us when these things will be, and what will be the sign when all these things are going to be accomplished?”
================================================

Is Jesus talking about the future destruction of Jerusalem and Temple in 70ad in Luke 21, and all/part of Matthew 24/Mark 13 is still future?
Or is only part of all 3 fulfilled in 70ad, and part of them still future or all of the 3 discourses are all still future.
Thanks for any responses.

.

Luke is a bit difficult as there's no mention of Jesus leaving the Temple and going to the Mount of Olives. Also, Luke 21:16-19

16You will be delivered up even by parents and brothersc and relatives and friends, and some of you they will put to death. 17You will be hated by all for my name’s sake. 18But not a hair of your head will perish. 19By your endurance you will gain your lives.

Vs 16 says "some of you will be put to death" Vs 18 says "not a hair on your head will perish" Clearly, Luke is speaking of two different time frames in the same chapter.

Berean Tim · Aug 15, 2019

Erik Nelson said:
Early Documents in the Debate Over Preterism: The Didache • by Gary DeMar • The American Vision

Didache dates to 50-70ad Antioch

Some place it later. Most now hold for a 90AD date. I guess it depends on your end times view LOL

parousia70 · Aug 15, 2019

Acts2:38 said:
Matthew 24:4-34 completed in 70ad
Matthew 24:36 to 25:46 second coming not complete yet

Luke 21 completed

Mark 13:4-30 completed
Mark 13:32-37 not yet

And Luke 17?

LittleLambofJesus · Aug 15, 2019

parousia70 said:
And Luke 17?

All of this written before 70ad...........

MATT 24 LUKE 17 "ONE TAKEN AND ONE LEFT" DISCUSSION

Matthew 24
1 And Jesus coming out, departed from the Temple.
16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

28 for wherever the carcass/body may be, there shall the eagles<105> be gathered together.
40 Then two will be in the field: one is taken, and one is left.
41 Two women will be grinding at the mill: one is taken, and one is left.
42 Therefore keep watch, for you do not know on what day your Lord comes.

Luke 17
34 ‘I say to you, In that night,
there shall be two men on one couch, the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left;
35 two women shall be grinding at the same place together, the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left;
36 two men shall be in the field, the one shall be taken, and the other left.’
37 And they answering say to him, ‘Where, sir?’ and he said to them,
‘Where the body<4983> [is], there will the eagles<105> be gathered together.’
==========================
"WHERE THE BODY is, there the EAGLES be gathered" Matt 24 Luke 17-- and Revelation

Matthew 24:28
for wherever the corpse<4430> may be, there shall the eagles/vultures<105> be gathered together.
Luke 17:37
And they answering say to him, 'Where, sir?'
and He saith to them, 'Where the body<4983> is, there will the eagles/vultures<105> be gathered together.'
======================
Mat 24:37
“But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.

Luk 17:26
“And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man:
Luk 17:28
“Likewise as it was also in the days of Lot: They ate, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they built;
Luk 17:32
“Remember Lot’s wife.
Luk 17:33
“Whoever seeks to save his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life will preserve it.

2Pe 2:7
and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked
==========================

LUKE 21 Jerusalem Discourse given in the Temple, not Mount of Olives?

Was all of Luke 21 fulfilled in 70ad?

Yes

Only part of it was fulfilled

None of it was fulfilled in 70ad

Luke 21 is 70ad, but Matthew 24/Mark 13 are still future

All 3 are partly fulfilled in 70ad and part of them is still future

All of the 3 are still all future

i don't know right now

Other

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

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