Dealing with the underlying cause of mass shootings

Ken Rank

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If 70% of the country was Christian, we wouldn't have founded the country based on exploitation and murder of indigenous people as well as black slavery, and that's just one part of the icing. The "good old days" of Manifest Destiny with the United States as the "New Jerusalem" weren't all that great for a lot of people. Or Christian, for that matter. Let's take off the rose-colored glasses. The U.S. has always been secular and has always had laws that were oppressive to at least part of the population.

If we really want to be more Christian as a nation, we will love God by loving our neighbors.
Oh good grief...

What would you like me to do here? Counter with proof that in most cases blacks sold blacks into slavery? I won't... we don't have a rosey past in every situation we encountered... but we shouldn't expect to see one... we are human. But if you really think that the nation was not founded on Christian (biblical) principles... then you need to read something other than what you are reading. The best things to read are the time period pieces themselves... you can find them online.

Be blessed.
Ken
 
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Ken Rank

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And yet America wasn't any any better--in terms of overall morality--a hundred years ago. Not with Jim Crow laws, Segregation, lynching, etc.

Further, overall violent crime rates have actually been steadily declining over the last quarter century.

-CryptoLutheran
I do find it interesting how often people want to look back at the bad times and impose them on the modern times where everyone truly does have the same opportunity for success. But, none of this has anything to do with the OP.
 
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Ken Rank

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I know it's easy to gloss over this... Original sin isn't something we can just turn on and off... So it's not really a workable solution...

I think there's also another thing here... Proverbs 7. Simple solutions offered by those with ulterior motives are seductive - yet usually end up going very badly for us....

Violent events have been an issue in the USA since before our founding. We have had a LOT of smart, capable, and hardworking leaders. A majority of them Christian. If there was a simple straightforward solution - we would have already found it. Yet the annual number of these events has been the same for over 100 years.

Compare this to modern Japan, NZ, or Aus - none of those nations EVER had a real problem with mass shootings... And so thinking we could get their "Solutions" to work here is ridiculously naive because they never actually had our "Problem"....

Compare this to nations that DO or recently did have problems with mass shootings/violent events and we find that solutions are NEVER simple and straightforward - or the solutions that did work were so unbelievablely brutal as to baffle us... For example feudal Japan or pre-1998 peace treaty Northern Ireland.

For example Pre-soviet Eastern Europe had a LOT of revolutionary terror violence.... It was they unspeakable brutality of Soviet rule that literally tortured and murdered anybody (and often their family as well) who was suspected of non-patriotic behavior or ginning up a terrorist attack.... To me - adopting that strategy would be the greater evil....

Feudal Japan was sort of the same - when the Emperor's armies murdered everybody who fought against him...

Anyway.. Thanks for your continued insight.
In case you didn't see it in another post... the countries you mentioned weren't Christian or Jewish, they were either purely heathen or, in the case of Japan, Shinto and Buddhist. So them being secular, or becoming more western and secular... doesn't have the impact (in my view) that a Christian nation does when it turns away.

Profaning God's name has nothing to do with saying or not saying His name. It isn't saying Jesus Christ in a bad way, or GD, etc. Profaning His name is profaning His character and reputation which we do when we claim to be His and then act like everyone else around us. And that is what this nation has become... it still claims "in God we trust" but our actions do not mirror the claim. That is profaning His name.

Blessings.
Ken
 
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ananda

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In the US over recent years, there have been hundreds of mass shootings. It's not arguable to say that all of the rest of the countries in the world combined, have not had anywhere near the amount of shootings we have had here. The question is, what is the cause? Social media is full of people blaming Donald Trump, which to me is just a lazy conclusion. Besides, while some might be fueled by certain right wing rhetoric, not all the shooters have been right wingers. In fact, the Dayton shooter listed himself as a socialist who was in favor of Elizabeth Warren as next President. So it is probably safe to say, that it isn't any one politician or even group that is encouraging what we see today.

So again, what is it? Video games or violent television? Perhaps in some cases. How about kids who have been bullied? Again, perhaps in some cases. I can probably list 20 reasons and follow it with, "Perhaps in some cases." So what it it? Is there one underlying condition that might tie all (or most) of these shootings together?

I personally believe that the degradation of our society which includes mass shootings, falls back on the removal of God from our culture. And I am not talking about just any god... I am specifically speaking about the God of Scripture, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob... the God that gave to man what we call Judeo-Christian values that this country was built upon.

Yes, it was built on HIS principles. That, too, is not arguable. Anyone who takes any time at all reading the foundational papers of this country will learn very quickly that the founders were very much influenced and even ruled by... the moral outline presented within the Holy Bible.

We no longer pray in public like we did, we don't exalt Him in public like we once did, we even stopped calling it Christmas to please those who stand against Christian ideals. As such, we have, over time, slowly drifted away from Him as a culture and embraced a secular code of law that is more aligned with political correctness and not hurting feelings than it is with righteousness and peace through our Creator. In other words, our culture cares more about pleasing man than it does pleasing God!

Over the next few years, and especially through this election year... we are going to hear about all the ways this can be fixed. From taking all guns away to law abiding citizens having to jump through greater hoops in order to own or keep a gun, to crazy amounts of money being thrown at mental health plans on curing this ill. But in the end, mark my words, the problem will not go away. And it will not go away because these will only be band-aides that mask symptoms while the cause is left untouched. We are not dealing with the cause when we take guns, expand laws, or throw money at the problem. When we do those things we are like the man who has a skin lesian. Is it a mole? A tumor? Some other abnormality? Unless he deals with it on the level where it is CAUSED... then addressing only the symptoms will do nothing to prevent it from spreading. Likewise, if we do not address the underlying ill of our culture, which is the turning away from God and His righteousness, then we will simply continue to decay as a society.

So blessed we have been, and so poorly we extend our appreciation for that blessing and how we take it all for granted! We have to address the cause, we have to turn back to God as a culture... or these are but the beginning of greater woes!
The root causes of all unskillful activities are ignorance, greed, and aversion.

American culture centers around monetary wealth above almost everything else. American society and government are structured around this core goal, which promotes an ever increasing cultivation of ignorance, greed, and aversions in consumers in order to maximize said monetary wealth. Unfortunately, this promotion of unskillful behavior results in many such actions as you pointed out.

"Fear of God" is a manifestation of aversion, usually for the sake of repressing (but not solving) unskillful activity.
 
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JohnC2

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In case you didn't see it in another post... the countries you mentioned weren't Christian or Jewish, they were either purely heathen or, in the case of Japan, Shinto and Buddhist. So them being secular, or becoming more western and secular... doesn't have the impact (in my view) that a Christian nation does when it turns away.

Profaning God's name has nothing to do with saying or not saying His name. It isn't saying Jesus Christ in a bad way, or GD, etc. Profaning His name is profaning His character and reputation which we do when we claim to be His and then act like everyone else around us. And that is what this nation has become... it still claims "in God we trust" but our actions do not mirror the claim. That is profaning His name.

Blessings.
Ken

Huh?

Russia was very much a Christian nation as was nearly the whole entirety of Eastern Europe prior to WWI. All of these had powerful and influential state churches - and large public terror problems....

England and Northern Ireland were very much so as well.

Spain had some pretty bad public terror problems for hundreds of years - yet the Inquisiton was officially in full force from around 1200 until 1826...

So here we have a dozen flavors of Roman Catholic, Anglican, Eastern Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, as well as probably a dozen different miscellaneous other flavors of Protestants...

I don't really believe that you can hand wave ALL of them away as heretics...
 
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Ken Rank

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Huh?

Russia was very much a Christian nation as was nearly the whole entirety of Eastern Europe prior to WWI. All of these had powerful and influential state churches - and large public terror problems....

England and Northern Ireland were very much so as well.

Spain had some pretty bad public terror problems for hundreds of years - yet the Inquisiton was officially in full force from around 1200 until 1826...

So here we have a dozen flavors of Roman Catholic, Anglican, Eastern Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, as well as probably a dozen different miscellaneous other flavors of Protestants...

I don't really believe that you can hand wave ALL of them away as heretics...
Russia? Are you really wanting to use them as a debate point? They have oppressed and killed their own people at various times...I am not thinking that was a good place to start.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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I know. Does any of that have relevance to the OPs purpose in mentioning them?

I was just responding to your post. Hey, a little more knowledge about Islam can't hurt.
 
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bekkilyn

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Japan is not a culture based on the principles of the God of Israel, the US is. And we have slowly as a culture walked from him starting in the late 1960's and the speed at which we depart, the distance between us and God, and the amount of tragedies that are occurring, are all growing in unison.

You can't depart from somewhere you've never been in the first place. The U.S. has always been secular.

Seems that this "God of Israel" (in quotes because I consider this version of him to be false) must really love Japan despite their apparent 100% willful disregard of him, since he doesn't regularly send people to shoot up their schools like he does with the U.S.. By this "logic", all we would need to do as a country to get the shootings and other acts of violence to stop is ignore the "God of Israel" entirely, and then he would love us too and stop sending evil into our midst.

Also, who really wants to worship the false god of black slavery and Imperialism anyway?

However, if we wish to be a more Christian nation, we would be much better off acting with love for our neighbors and allowing the Holy Spirit to transform the hearts of those who bear witness to his love.
 
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bekkilyn

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Oh good grief...

What would you like me to do here? Counter with proof that in most cases blacks sold blacks into slavery? I won't... we don't have a rosey past in every situation we encountered... but we shouldn't expect to see one... we are human. But if you really think that the nation was not founded on Christian (biblical) principles... then you need to read something other than what you are reading. The best things to read are the time period pieces themselves... you can find them online.

Be blessed.
Ken

Founding Fathers: We Are Not a Christian Nation | HuffPost
 
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OldWiseGuy

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I was thinking more along the lines of watching naughty cartoons more frequently and shooting each other less frequently.

They also declared economic war on the U.S. A really bad idea.
 
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pitabread

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I personally believe that the degradation of our society which includes mass shootings, falls back on the removal of God from our culture. And I am not talking about just any god... I am specifically speaking about the God of Scripture, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob... the God that gave to man what we call Judeo-Christian values that this country was built upon.

Unfortunately this isn't supported by real-world evidence. Especially when comparing the USA (one of the most religious modern Western societies) with far less religious societies and examining various variables related to societal problems.

This is even the case in the U.S. itself where more religious areas of the population on average have greater societal ills. It could be that correlations are driven via other factors (for example, I recall reading a study that pointed to high social inequality in the U.S.). But there is certainly nothing that I've seen in terms of societal metrics that suggests that more Christianity is necessarily correlated with lower social problems nor necessary a cure for social problems.
 
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ViaCrucis

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Read my other posts and again... I used this as ONE EXAMPLE (that I clearly should not have done since everyone wants to key in on this) of a place where Christians (and our culture) used a word that has been removed due only to political correctness. The more we remain silent, the more of "God" will be removed and the sooner the ultimate judgement for walking away from Him will come.

And my responses were tacitly connected to a rebuttal of the idea of a "Christian culture". So when you say "Christians (and our culture)" I am rejecting the notion of culture.

There is a Christian people, the holy catholic and apostolic Church, which exists within the various cultures of the world. But there is no such thing as a "Christian culture".

The Church =/= American culture. It never has been and never will be.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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ViaCrucis

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I do find it interesting how often people want to look back at the bad times and impose them on the modern times where everyone truly does have the same opportunity for success. But, none of this has anything to do with the OP.

At what point in American history has everyone had the same opportunity for success?

-CryptoLutheran
 
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OldWiseGuy

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True history (what actually happened here) cannot be swept away by the well-intended writers of the founding documents. This land was given to a certain people according to a certain legacy. However it was not bequeathed in perpetuity, but only to fulfill a material birthright. This birthright has already been largely lost by it's original recipients, who were in fact Christians. That said the Christian faith was not a qualifier for the birthright as this legacy existed long before the advent of Jesus Christ, and is fully separate from the Christian religion. That the two co-exist isn't entirely coincidental as the one is absolutely necessary for the success of the other.
 
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