LDS How to Become a God

Rescued One

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me
Dec 12, 2002
35,529
6,408
Midwest
✟80,125.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
...Go figure! It's almost like the more we talk to the Mormons, they more they reveal that they are not actually committed to anything but propping up Mormonism, and if they have to throw Christ under the bus (the Nestorian bus, in the case of He Is The Way and his radical disjunction between Jesus and God), together with the holy scriptures and basically everything else they can get their hands on, then they'll attempt to do so. All so that Joseph Smith can have his silly, clearly pagan "spirit matter" concept. Yuck.

For some Mormons, even though they are convinced that they're in a false religion, they will stick with it because all their living relatives are Mormons as well as neighbors and bosses; they don't want to be ostracized.
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
NDE can be duplicated with oxygen deprivation--it causes hallucinations. Pilots have had them.
It seems to me that hallucinations are much different than NDEs:

"
. Hallucinations are usually illogical, fleeting, bizarre, and/or distorted, whereas the vast majority of NDEs are logical, orderly, clear, and comprehensible.

. People tend to forget their hallucinations, whereas most NDEs remain vivid for decades.

. NDEs often lead to profound and permanent transformations in personality, attitudes, beliefs and values, something that is never seen following hallucinations.

. People looking back on hallucinations typically recognize them as unreal, as fantasies, whereas, people often describe their NDEs as “more real than real.”

. Finally, people who have experienced both hallucinations and an NDE describe them as being quite different."

From: Facts About Near Death Experience
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
For some Mormons, even though they are convinced that they're in a false religion, they will stick with it because all their living relatives are Mormons as well as neighbors and bosses; they don't want to be ostracized.
I know for a fact that The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints is God's true church and NOT a false religion.
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Why do you continue to say that?
First I don't know of any members that are "convinced that they're in a false religion" and secondly God has revealed to me that His true church was restored to the earth.
 
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
dzheremi,

We believe that God literally knew Jeremiah because Jeremiah existed as a spirit child of God. You believe that God is God and can do anything in and outside of time. So now apply that knowledge and God can do anything, and he did, he created Jeremiah and then sanctified him and appointed him to be a prophet when it was his turn to come to earth. That would be a good application of your belief.

We believe that Jeremiah was akin to Jesus in the pre-existence and God noticed his righteousness and sanctified him there and even appointed him to be a prophet before he came to earth.

We believe this scripture is giving you a little shapshot of the pre-earth life for Jeremiah. You can believe it or not, but we have just as much a firm foundation in our belief as you have in yours. The bible does back the notion of a pre-earth life. I will give you just a few scriptures:

Romans 8:16 The HG witnesses that we are the children of God.
Psalms 82:6 God says, Ye are gods and all of us are children of the most High.
Acts 17:28-29 Paul tell us that we are God's offspring.
Numbers 16:22 God is the God of the spirits of all flesh.
Job 38:7 The sons of God shouted for joy when the earth was formed.
2 Timothy 1:9 We were promised great promise and given to us before the world began.
Ephesians 1:3-5 We were blessed in heavenly realms before the creation of the world.
Hebrews 12:9 God is the Father of our spirits.
Revelations 12:7-13 War in heaven between lucifer and Jesus, which we participated in.
Jude 1:6 lucifer and his followers kept not their first estate (in heaven before the earth).

Lots of other scriptures that give us an insight into the pre-earth life we lived as spirits. Jeremiah was in spirit form, a real entity, when God sanctified him and appointed him to be a prophet. Yes God is God, and if he wished to create us before the world was created, then he can, right? Well, he did, and your scripture is a nice little snapshot of that existence. Oh, and as secondary information we see the creative power of God, as you say.

How exactly is that a reasonable leap to make? You'd first have to establish why God's foreknowledge must mean that things/souls/people (however it is best to describe them in Mormonism) preexist with Him.

There are many entities that existed with God before the world. We know that his Son Jesus Christ existed with him.
Revelations 12:7-13 says lucifer did too and angels both good and bad, and Michael, and a woman. There was a war in heaven, many participants.
Job 38:7 tells us that the stars of heaven (metaphor for spirit children of God) sang together before the earth was created.
Job 28:7 also tells us that the 'sons of God' shouted for joy before the earth was created.
We know that Jeremiah did

The pre-earth life was a busy place, and you and I were there and saw everything and promised that we would follow Jesus. We are doing as we promised.
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
How did "God" personally reveal it to you?
He revealed it through my great great grandfather's diary and a book written by a young girl who had a NDE. She saw the same incident that my great great grandfather saw and wrote about in his diary.This incident related to Joseph Smith when he was in Nauvoo. She saw Joseph Smith's entire life and the life of Jesus Christ. I have read many books written by people who have had NDEs, and they confirm that my beliefs are correct. Families are forever. Temple ordinances are correct. God wants us to keep the commandments. He wants us to LOVE everyone even our enemies.
 
Upvote 0

Pedra

Newbie
Mar 6, 2015
1,134
619
✟36,360.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
He revealed it through my great great grandfather's diary and a book written by a young girl who had a NDE. She saw the same incident that my great great grandfather saw and wrote about in his diary.This incident related to Joseph Smith when he was in Nauvoo. She saw Joseph Smith's entire life and the life of Jesus Christ. I have read many books written by people who have had NDEs, and they confirm that my beliefs are correct. Families are forever. Temple ordinances are correct. God wants us to keep the commandments. He wants us to LOVE everyone even our enemies.
NDE's are not the way of God to speaks to people --the BIBLE is the only God-given authority. We are to test the spirits and prove everything using scripture -- not btw, after it's been twisted by the False teaching of Mormonism.
Like ghostly visitations, automatic writing and messages from mediums at seances --the devil fabricates these spiritual contacts to deceive those looking outside of God's Word for the Truth.
The problem is Mormons have cast aside the only thing that can rescue them from being deceived ---they have been taught by their false prophet Joseph Smith to reject it--THE BIBLE-- as it is and only believe it with the Mormon RE-interpretations.
 
Upvote 0

Pedra

Newbie
Mar 6, 2015
1,134
619
✟36,360.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
He revealed it through my great great grandfather's diary and a book written by a young girl who had a NDE. She saw the same incident that my great great grandfather saw and wrote about in his diary.This incident related to Joseph Smith when he was in Nauvoo. She saw Joseph Smith's entire life and the life of Jesus Christ. I have read many books written by people who have had NDEs, and they confirm that my beliefs are correct. Families are forever. Temple ordinances are correct. God wants us to keep the commandments. He wants us to LOVE everyone even our enemies.
It seems you are terminally deceived since you like to follow after demon induced "signs and wonders" & any kind of spirit-induced hallucination or messages... this is why can see that much of Mormonism is based upon occult beliefs, it is obvious to those with knowledge of both the Bible & the things GOD denounces as an abomination ( Deut 18) that Joseph Smith was a dabbling in the occult and he got deceived by the devil & this deception was used to fabricate a false religion that claims it is "Christian" but by studying the writings of the LDS, shows that nothing is further from the truth.
All forms of witchcraft, sorcery, divination, telling the future, conjuring, consulting with spirits etc....are warned against and FORBIDDEN.
Mormons reject all the Sound doctrines that the Bible teaches.
Satan was a created cherub who rebelled, he is the arch enemy of GOD and it is he who is deceiving you & all the Mormons to believe spiritual fables told to them from the kingdom of darkness.
Bible Hub: Search, Read, Study the Bible in Many Languages
Sorcery is Forbidden
Deuteronomy 18:
…10Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, practices divination or conjury, interprets omens, practices sorcery, 11casts spells, consults a medium or familiar spirit,or inquires of the dead. 12For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD. "

2 Cor 11: "13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, fashioning themselves into apostles of Christ. 14And no marvel; for even Satan fashioneth himself into an angel of light.15It is no great thing therefore if his ministers also fashion themselves as ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works."
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
NDE's are not the way of God to speaks to people --the BIBLE is the only God-given authority. We are to test the spirits and prove everything using scripture -- not btw, after it's been twisted by the False teaching of Mormonism.
Like ghostly visitations, automatic writing and messages from mediums at seances --the devil fabricates these spiritual contacts to deceive those looking outside of God's Word for the Truth.
The problem is Mormons have cast aside the only thing that can rescue them from being deceived ---they have been taught by their false prophet Joseph Smith to reject it--THE BIBLE-- as it is and only believe it with the Mormon RE-interpretations.
NDEs are nothing new:

(New Testament | 2 Corinthians 12:1 - 5)

1 IT is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord.
2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
5 Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities.

NDEs have nothing to do with mediums and seances. They are actual experiences of people who have died and been resuscitated. While it is true that many of them tend to interpret these experiences differently, what they see is real. Many of them see family members who have passed on. Some have a life review. Many are told they need to come back. Some come back with increased knowledge and most of them make drastic changes in their lives. Paul made a drastic change in his life after speaking to the Lord.
 
Upvote 0

Peter1000

Well-Known Member
Nov 12, 2015
7,876
488
71
✟124,865.00
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
It seems you are terminally deceived since you like to follow after demon induced "signs and wonders" & any kind of spirit-induced hallucination or messages... this is why can see that much of Mormonism is based upon occult beliefs, it is obvious to those with knowledge of both the Bible & the things GOD denounces as an abomination ( Deut 18) that Joseph Smith was a dabbling in the occult and he got deceived by the devil & this deception was used to fabricate a false religion that claims it is "Christian" but by studying the writings of the LDS, shows that nothing is further from the truth.
All forms of witchcraft, sorcery, divination, telling the future, conjuring, consulting with spirits etc....are warned against and FORBIDDEN.
Mormons reject all the Sound doctrines that the Bible teaches.
Satan was a created cherub who rebelled, he is the arch enemy of GOD and it is he who is deceiving you & all the Mormons to believe spiritual fables told to them from the kingdom of darkness.
Bible Hub: Search, Read, Study the Bible in Many Languages
Sorcery is Forbidden
Deuteronomy 18:
…10Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, practices divination or conjury, interprets omens, practices sorcery, 11casts spells, consults a medium or familiar spirit,or inquires of the dead. 12For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD. "

2 Cor 11: "13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, fashioning themselves into apostles of Christ. 14And no marvel; for even Satan fashioneth himself into an angel of light.15It is no great thing therefore if his ministers also fashion themselves as ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works."
Your 2 Corinthian 11 scripture is a scripture that I would use to show that there is an apostasy that took place in the Church of Jesus Christ of First-century Saints. Thank you for sharing. If you will notice its context, Paul is talking about his day and what was happening in his day, not our day 2,000 years in the future. So you are making the point for what JS says. The bible really does prophecy of an apostasy and this is one of those prophecies. Thanks.
 
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
It seems you are terminally deceived since you like to follow after demon induced "signs and wonders" & any kind of spirit-induced hallucination or messages... this is why can see that much of Mormonism is based upon occult beliefs, it is obvious to those with knowledge of both the Bible & the things GOD denounces as an abomination ( Deut 18) that Joseph Smith was a dabbling in the occult and he got deceived by the devil & this deception was used to fabricate a false religion that claims it is "Christian" but by studying the writings of the LDS, shows that nothing is further from the truth.
All forms of witchcraft, sorcery, divination, telling the future, conjuring, consulting with spirits etc....are warned against and FORBIDDEN.
Mormons reject all the Sound doctrines that the Bible teaches.
Satan was a created cherub who rebelled, he is the arch enemy of GOD and it is he who is deceiving you & all the Mormons to believe spiritual fables told to them from the kingdom of darkness.
Bible Hub: Search, Read, Study the Bible in Many Languages
Sorcery is Forbidden
Deuteronomy 18:
…10Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, practices divination or conjury, interprets omens, practices sorcery, 11casts spells, consults a medium or familiar spirit,or inquires of the dead. 12For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD. "

2 Cor 11: "13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, fashioning themselves into apostles of Christ. 14And no marvel; for even Satan fashioneth himself into an angel of light.15It is no great thing therefore if his ministers also fashion themselves as ministers of righteousness, whose end shall be according to their works."
There is a right way to have God answer us. Joseph Smith used the right way through prayer and faith. It had nothing to do with the occult, witchcraft, or sorcery.
 
Upvote 0

Pedra

Newbie
Mar 6, 2015
1,134
619
✟36,360.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
There is a right way to have God answer us. Joseph Smith used the right way through prayer and faith. It had nothing to do with the occult, witchcraft, or sorcery.
Well you are in denial then, and reject the historic accounts of Joseph Smith and about his family.
Anyone who is knowledgeable about the occult & extra-biblical spiritual beliefs and practices knows full well that joseph smith was into ungodly practices such as divination and there was court records he was accused of looking for treasure by this method. This is not hearsay. It was also recorded his family were involved in magic, they were not born again Christians, they had other spiritual beliefs, these facts are in the Encyclopedia Britannica.
To bogusly portrait Smith as a righteous man is like portraying a wolf as a vegan!
In the bible true Christians are taught to search the scriptures and test every teaching and test every spirit by the SCRIPTURES.
So, No , you are incorrect, Joseph Smith was and is a false prophet - we know this because firstly , he gave a "new " revelation when THE BIBLE SAID the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST is the Last BOOK of the BIBLE. The Bible canon closed with the Apostolic Age.
We identify Smith as a FALSE PROPHET because he presents ANOTHER Gospel and ANOTHER Jesus, and Smith's Christology and his theology about men becoming gods and GOD once being a human is Utter Blasphemy & Evil.
Mormons need to just study ONLY what the Bible says and believe what it says. Get free of the spiritual deception that this counterfeit to Christianity teaches.

John 8 : 23 " .“If you continue in My word, you are truly My disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

It begins :
REVELATION 1
Prologue
(Daniel 12:1-13)

1This is the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants what must soon come to pass. He made it known by sending His angel to His servant John, 2who testifies to everything he saw. This is the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.

3Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear and obey what is written in it, because the time is near.

REVELATION 1: 18 "18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
19 And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

20He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

21The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all the saints.c

Amen.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Pedra

Newbie
Mar 6, 2015
1,134
619
✟36,360.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Your 2 Corinthian 11 scripture is a scripture that I would use to show that there is an apostasy that took place in the Church of Jesus Christ of First-century Saints. Thank you for sharing. If you will notice its context, Paul is talking about his day and what was happening in his day, not our day 2,000 years in the future. So you are making the point for what JS says. The bible really does prophecy of an apostasy and this is one of those prophecies. Thanks.
I love how you so boldly attempt to insult me frequently when you twist the meaning of scriptures trying to make it fit with Mormonism & toss the misrepresentations back in my face for "proving" Js 's point with the shallow "thanks" you tack on. I've seen this tactic before.
This only reveals the heart & real fruit of the LDS or the real fruit any false spiritual path is the same for that matter. There is just a very thin superficial smiling veneer and then underneath it is contempt towards the traditional Christian representatives & the word of God as the Bible reveals.
Sorry but none of Mormon teachings have gotten anything correct because it contains just a web of ungodly paganistic beliefs.
Of course false prophets use what they can eek out in the scripture and will completely OVER EMPHASIS a certain few scriptures, but then ignore the VAST MAJORITY that show the contradictions and Prove them WRONG.
So, sadly, as per usual you can speak only the deception, spiritual misunderstanding & distortion of scriptures, and it is apparent that you consider yourself a disciple-- but don't kid yourself , you are not of a follower of the true Lord Jesus revealed in the Bible.
You are a follower only of Joseph Smith the false prophet, & his false teachings who from all historical accounts Smith was guilty of pride, arrogance, lust,divination and dishonesty. I don't know why anyone would follow him or his teachings. Mormons act like they think Smith is holy and nothing is further from the truth.
A few of us try to speak the Biblical truth to show the errors of Mormonism because it is a spiritual battle, for souls and we are burdened for your eternal fate.
People are trying to correct your errors , because you will not see heaven the direction you are going.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,821
73
Las Vegas
✟255,978.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
It seems to me that hallucinations are much different than NDEs:

"
. Hallucinations are usually illogical, fleeting, bizarre, and/or distorted, whereas the vast majority of NDEs are logical, orderly, clear, and comprehensible.

. People tend to forget their hallucinations, whereas most NDEs remain vivid for decades.

. NDEs often lead to profound and permanent transformations in personality, attitudes, beliefs and values, something that is never seen following hallucinations.

. People looking back on hallucinations typically recognize them as unreal, as fantasies, whereas, people often describe their NDEs as “more real than real.”

. Finally, people who have experienced both hallucinations and an NDE describe them as being quite different."

From: Facts About Near Death Experience

What most do not understand is that people have NDE's according to their own firmly held believes as to what the "other side" means. Even to those who practice one religion but secretly believe in another. A devout Hindu will have NDE's that are compatible with their views, if exposed to Christianity of the kind that believes in immediate heaven or hell upon death, the NDE will be more Christian. A Buddhist has NDE's accordingly and so do Muslims. I do not believe in immediate heaven or hell upon death--mine were both blank, though as I was going, I felt His presence. Not euphoria, but an indescribable peace. But nothing afterwards. For that is what I believe. One of my nieces lost most of her blood after a surgery, hers was one of she was floating out in the waiting room where her sister was---that is whom she was concerned with as that is where she was.
Please don't even try to tell me that the Buddhist, the Hindu and the Muslim are all right in their believes, for then no one needs Christianity (nor Mormonism) and Jesus did not need to die which means the whole bible - and Mormonism -- is wrong.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

dzheremi

Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian
Aug 27, 2014
13,565
13,723
✟429,902.00
Country
United States
Faith
Oriental Orthodox
Marital Status
Private
That is a good point, mmksparbud, concerning NDEs, and a good reminder as to why things based on malleable sensory experiences are not really a good route to establishing faith. Granted, this should not be taken to the point of being dualistic like a gnostic (as though nothing in the actually existing world which may be experienced through the senses is therefore 'real'...I mean, I had some rice for lunch...I believe it existed because I ate it and now I'm not hungry anymore), but rather more like how our Lord said to St. Thomas in John 20:29 -- "Because you have seen Me you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe."

While of course miraculous experiences and such can and do happen, there is a certain mindset that seems to say that if you don't have them, you can't possibly have 'real faith' or something like that. I think that's silly, personally. It's like when non-Orthodox ask me about fasting as though it is in itself a miracle (because we do it a lot as a church, and I guess that sticks out as something more than human in today's society), I have to be honest and say that there's nothing miraculous about eating rice and beans or okra or whatever 210 days out of the year. But we believe in my Church that a mature faith is not to be based around miracles (they may be there, but they may not be), so instead we seek to have that mature faith by being faithful in little things day by day, so that we may be faithful in much. (Luke 16:10)

Also, when I have burning in the bosom it's usually just a reminder from my body that I forgot to take my Prilosec before eating. :sick: I can't imagine converting to a religion based on a sensation that may be indistinguishable from legitimate preexisting medical problems. Yikes!
 
  • Agree
Reactions: mmksparbud
Upvote 0

He is the way

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2018
8,103
359
Murray
✟113,072.00
Country
United States
Faith
Mormon
Marital Status
Married
Well you are in denial then, and reject the historic accounts of Joseph Smith and about his family.
Anyone who is knowledgeable about the occult & extra-biblical spiritual beliefs and practices knows full well that joseph smith was into ungodly practices such as divination and there was court records he was accused of looking for treasure by this method. This is not hearsay. It was also recorded his family were involved in magic, they were not born again Christians, they had other spiritual beliefs, these facts are in the Encyclopedia Britannica.
To bogusly portrait Smith as a righteous man is like portraying a wolf as a vegan!
In the bible true Christians are taught to search the scriptures and test every teaching and test every spirit by the SCRIPTURES.
So, No , you are incorrect, Joseph Smith was and is a false prophet - we know this because firstly , he gave a "new " revelation when THE BIBLE SAID the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST is the Last BOOK of the BIBLE. The Bible canon closed with the Apostolic Age.
We identify Smith as a FALSE PROPHET because he presents ANOTHER Gospel and ANOTHER Jesus, and Smith's Christology and his theology about men becoming gods and GOD once being a human is Utter Blasphemy & Evil.
Mormons need to just study ONLY what the Bible says and believe what it says. Get free of the spiritual deception that this counterfeit to Christianity teaches.

John 8 : 23 " .“If you continue in My word, you are truly My disciples. 32Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”

It begins :
REVELATION 1
Prologue
(Daniel 12:1-13)

1This is the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants what must soon come to pass. He made it known by sending His angel to His servant John, 2who testifies to everything he saw. This is the word of God and the testimony of Jesus Christ.

3Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear and obey what is written in it, because the time is near.

REVELATION 1: 18 "18 I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book.
19 And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.

20He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

21The grace of the Lord Jesus be with all the saints.c

Amen.

You said "...he was accused of looking for treasure by this method."

Jesus was accused of having a devil. Does that mean Jesus had a devil?

Paul was jailed, does that make Paul a criminal?

Joseph Smith was fifteen when he prayed to God to know which of the sects were true. He prayed in faith knowing that God would answer his prayed. God did answer that prayer:

(Pearl of Great Price | JS-History 1:11 - 20)

11 While I was laboring under the extreme difficulties caused by the contests of these parties of religionists, I was one day reading the Epistle of James, first chapter and fifth verse, which reads: If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
12 Never did any passage of scripture come with more power to the heart of man than this did at this time to mine. It seemed to enter with great force into every feeling of my heart. I reflected on it again and again, knowing that if any person needed wisdom from God, I did; for how to act I did not know, and unless I could get more wisdom than I then had, I would never know; for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible.
13 At length I came to the conclusion that I must either remain in darkness and confusion, or else I must do as James directs, that is, ask of God. I at length came to the determination to "ask of God," concluding that if he gave wisdom to them that lacked wisdom, and would give liberally, and not upbraid, I might venture.
14 So, in accordance with this, my determination to ask of God, I retired to the woods to make the attempt. It was on the morning of a beautiful, clear day, early in the spring of eighteen hundred and twenty. It was the first time in my life that I had made such an attempt, for amidst all my anxieties I had never as yet made the attempt to pray vocally.
15 After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon by some power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.
16 But, exerting all my powers to call upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction—not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being—just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, "Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off." I then said to my mother, "I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true." It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the opposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy?
 
Upvote 0

mmksparbud

Well-Known Member
Dec 3, 2011
17,312
6,821
73
Las Vegas
✟255,978.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Widowed
Politics
US-Others
You said "...he was accused of looking for treasure by this method."

Jesus was accused of having a devil. Does that mean Jesus had a devil?

Paul was jailed, does that make Paul a criminal?

Joseph Smith was fifteen when he prayed to God to know which of the sects were true. He prayed in faith knowing that God would answer his prayed. God did answer that prayer:

(Pearl of Great Price | JS-History 1:11 - 20)

11 While I was laboring under the extreme difficulties caused by the contests of these parties of religionists, I was one day reading the Epistle of James, first chapter and fifth verse, which reads: If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
12 Never did any passage of scripture come with more power to the heart of man than this did at this time to mine. It seemed to enter with great force into every feeling of my heart. I reflected on it again and again, knowing that if any person needed wisdom from God, I did; for how to act I did not know, and unless I could get more wisdom than I then had, I would never know; for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible.
13 At length I came to the conclusion that I must either remain in darkness and confusion, or else I must do as James directs, that is, ask of God. I at length came to the determination to "ask of God," concluding that if he gave wisdom to them that lacked wisdom, and would give liberally, and not upbraid, I might venture.
14 So, in accordance with this, my determination to ask of God, I retired to the woods to make the attempt. It was on the morning of a beautiful, clear day, early in the spring of eighteen hundred and twenty. It was the first time in my life that I had made such an attempt, for amidst all my anxieties I had never as yet made the attempt to pray vocally.
15 After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon by some power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.
16 But, exerting all my powers to call upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction—not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being—just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: "they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof."
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, "Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off." I then said to my mother, "I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true." It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the opposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy?




So far we’ve found over two hundred total suits involving Joseph Smith–whether as a defendant, plaintiff, witness or judge. (Yes, as Mayor of Nauvoo, he was also a Justice of the Peace and Chief Magistrate of the Nauvoo Municipal Court.) That makes an average of about fourteen cases per year. As best we can tell, he endured an average of one lawsuit per month during most of his ministry!

Brigham Young said that he had to defend himself in forty-eight criminal cases, including many personally involving Brigham–but that Joseph was never convicted in any of them. We believe that this count of criminal cases against him is quite accurate. We’ll focus mainly on some criminal charges that took his liberty, his assets and ultimately his life. Knowing that not once was he found legally guilty of any charges against him has strengthened my own faith and regard for Joseph Smith–the man and the Prophet. This is a unique way to tell the history of the Church through lawsuits and court records.
Legal Trials of the Prophet: Joseph Smith's Life in Court - FairMormon

This tries hard to make Smith and Young noble martyrs---and Mormons love to place them in the same category as Jesus and the apostles for "suffering for his faith."
Mormons have not suffered for the Lord. They suffered for corrupting the word of God. For going against God with polygamy, for fraud, for divination and such things---not for standing for the truth of the word of God. Luther stood for the word of God, not for foolish things such as pleural wives and secret ceremonies. Not one single Christian martyr--Catholic or Protestant, ever went down trying to kill others in defense of themselves. Every single one, including Christ, took their punishment without raising a hand to anyone. They certainly were never in court for illegal banking, banking fraud attempted murder....

March 20, 1826 Disorderly person Albert Neely Disputed[52][53]
June 1830 Disorderly person Joseph P. Chamberlin Not guilty
June 1830 Disorderly person Three justices forming a court of special sessions Not guilty
February 1837 Illegal banking Sidney Rigdon Guilty (tried in absentia), each fined $1000
June 1837 Conspiracy to murder Grandison Newell Justice Flint, Justice Humphrey Charges dismissed
January 1838 Banking fraud Fled from Ohio to Missouri
August 10, 1838 Threatening Judge Adam Black Austin A King Lyman Wight Grand jury hearing scheduled but Smith fled to Illinois
November 12, 1838 Treason against Missouri Austin A King Lyman Wight, Hyrum Smith, Alexander McRay, Caleb Baldwin Escaped custody and fled from Missouri to Illinois
August 1842 Conspiracy to murder Gov. Boggs Illinois Governor Thomas Carlin Porter Rockwell In hiding from Aug 10 to Dec 30; surrendered and was freed by US District Court on Jan 2, 1843
June 6, 1843 Treason against Missouri Daviess County Grand Jury Illinois courts rejected Missouri's requests for extradition
May 1844 Perjury, fornication and adultery Hancock County Grand Jury Trial scheduled; killed while awaiting trial
June 11, 1844 Inciting a riot Thomas Morrison Samuel Bennett, John Taylor, William W. Phelps, Hyrum Smith, John P. Greene, Stephen Perry, Dimick B. Huntington, Jonathan Dunham, Stephen Markham, William Edwards, Jonathan Holmes, Jesse P. Harmon, John Lytle, Joseph W. Coolidge, Harvey D. Redfield, Porter Rockwell, and Levi Richards Granted $500 bail; killed while awaiting trial
June 24, 1844 Treason against Illinois Robert F. Smith Hyrum Smith Killed while awaiting trial
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Pedra
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Pedra

Newbie
Mar 6, 2015
1,134
619
✟36,360.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
You said "...he was accused of looking for treasure by this method."

Jesus was accused of having a devil. Does that mean Jesus had a devil?
I have to hold myself in check, but if you actually knew who Jesus was you would not be making those comparisons.
I find it highly offensive- sorry to tell you.
Seems to me this is your go to excuse for this delusional false prophet is to consider him equal = to Jesus, and you have made these comparisons before.
It shows how blasphemous & more the foundational beliefs of Mormonism.
JESUS is GOD who came in the flesh to pay for the sins of the world for all who would have faith in Him , their sins would be paid for.
Joseph Smith is a sinful man who was deceived by an apparition & was used by the adversary to make a false religion & claim it is Christian.
This is typical spiritual deception surrounding NDE's , trance experiences, visitations and signs, etc...Mormonism is not the first, Jehovahs witness, islam, Marian apparations, seventh day adventists, William branham, the NAR, vineyard church, Hindu gurus, buddhists, native religions, those who practice earth religions, new age, shamanism all claim to have had spiritual visitations or messages that are contrary to the Bible. Even UFO's the only religion that these beings criticize is Christianity -- funny enough. They attack the deity of Christ Jesus, not hinduism, or B'hai , or buddhism, no - the BIBLE. That should be a clue for the wise.
It is completely common story & spiritual deception this is from the playbook of the Adversary - the arch enemy of GOD the heavenly Father.
 
Upvote 0