"2. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon mount Sinai in ten commandments, and written in two tables;"
.
Upvote
0
Did the Early Church Fathers teach "Calvinism?"
- Thread starter BABerean2
- Start date
"2. This law, after his fall, continued to be a perfect rule of righteousness; and, as such, was delivered by God upon mount Sinai in ten commandments, and written in two tables;"
.
- Mar 18, 2014
- 38,116
- 34,054
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
I believe it is to clarify we no longer stone adulterers, offer peace offerings of animals, etc. or bring our sons to court to have him executed for being a sloth. Those types of distinctions.
It's observational unless one believes we still circumcise, keep the feast days, the dietary ordinances, and the civil laws of Sinai.
Upvote
0
timothyu
Well-Known Member
- Dec 31, 2018
- 22,550
- 8,436
- Country
- Canada
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Private
Some make it sound like God micro-manages. He gave our beginnings specific ways to live and or ancestors decided for themselves to try a few of their own. As a result we have been imprisoned in earth until death to reap what we sow and deal with the evils our way instead of His have created. We are quarantined and masters of our own fate as we desired. All God has done since is to offer a way out and a chance at returning to following His will, not our own. School is in progress but it can get bloody. We brought that on ourselves. Besides, the flesh was only a vehicle and doesn't matter much compared to what it is carrying.
Upvote
0
- Mar 18, 2014
- 38,116
- 34,054
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Wow, thanks for the below it really helps me understand why we never get anywhere.
How did Paul use it in his discourse?
So Peter was preaching the Gospel and the Gospel is the general call to all mankind. Jesus did say "many are called but few are chosen."
Illustrated here:
The people heard the Gospel, those who were pricked in the heart believed the Gospel, they responded to the Gospel (repent and were baptized). I don't know why most miss that most important part of Acts after Peter finished preaching the Gospel:
We see a similar illustration in Acts 10 when Peter preaches the Gospel, and while he was speaking the Holy Spirit came upon all who were listening. Then they were baptized.
Once again not getting your point on what you post. Is it your belief that somehow we can change ourselves, or by our fallen human efforts obtain regeneration from God by something we do?
Does God give ears that understand and eyes which see to all mankind?
How did Paul use it in his discourse?
Romans 9: NASB
6But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED.” 8That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. 9For this is the word of promise: “AT THIS TIME I WILL COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON.” 10And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.” 13Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”
14What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15For He says to Moses, “I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.” 16So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH.” 18So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
19You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” 20On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? 21Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.
6But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel; 7nor are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but: “THROUGH ISAAC YOUR DESCENDANTS WILL BE NAMED.” 8That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants. 9For this is the word of promise: “AT THIS TIME I WILL COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON.” 10And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac; 11for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls, 12it was said to her, “THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER.” 13Just as it is written, “JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED.”
14What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15For He says to Moses, “I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION.” 16So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH.” 18So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.
19You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” 20On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? 21Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.
I don't think I made the claim God repents for us. I know I did not. What I showed from Ezekiel and Jeremiah was that God is the one who gives us a new heart, takes the heart of stone and replaces it with a heart of flesh. God surely says He will do this.
Ezekiel 36: NASB
25“Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26“Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27“I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.
25“Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26“Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27“I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.
So Peter was preaching the Gospel and the Gospel is the general call to all mankind. Jesus did say "many are called but few are chosen."
Illustrated here:
When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.(Acts 13:48)
The Ordo Salutis is not a step by step manual for salvation. However we do see in Acts chapter 2 the following:
The people heard the Gospel, those who were pricked in the heart believed the Gospel, they responded to the Gospel (repent and were baptized). I don't know why most miss that most important part of Acts after Peter finished preaching the Gospel:
Acts 2: NASB
37Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” 38Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
37Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?” 38Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Once again not getting your point on what you post. Is it your belief that somehow we can change ourselves, or by our fallen human efforts obtain regeneration from God by something we do?
You asked this before. I answered in a twofold manner. (1) are you promoting Universal Reconciliation? (2) the call for all to repent is the general call of the Gospel. Many are called but few are chosen.
Does God give ears that understand and eyes which see to all mankind?
Did I say God repents for us? No, I said He is the One who gives us the new heart which leads us to repent. Remember, we are dead in our transgressions and sons of wrath before what? God makes us alive through Jesus Christ. That's from Ephesians chapter 2. So dead then alive. Dead men don't talk or reason.
I answered this one twice. You left out the preceding verses. Here is the order:
Ephesians 1: NASB
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
Everything starts with the hearing. Yet dead men can't hear a thing. So the answer is it starts with God's divine calling and that calling is the Gospel.
Upvote
0
- Mar 18, 2014
- 38,116
- 34,054
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Yes it says nothing about God delivering the 10 commandments in the Garden.
Upvote
0
Based on that statement, we now know how you make "Calvinism" work...
What is "This law" from that section of the WCF?
.
Upvote
0
- Aug 11, 2017
- 22,627
- 7,387
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
My belief is that God desires our love. Love is the only thing we can offer to Him that is of any value. Without the free will to choose to love God what value would our love actually have?
Upvote
0
Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Does the Holy Spirit come before we hear, and believe, or when we hear and believe as found below, and in the verse above?
Act 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
.
Upvote
0
timothyu
Well-Known Member
- Dec 31, 2018
- 22,550
- 8,436
- Country
- Canada
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Private
To be love. Hence for our fellow man, not just God, right?
After all, if God is love, He cannot work through us unless we are love, and He is not working towards Himself, but all of mankind through those of us who are love alone.
Upvote
0
- Mar 18, 2014
- 38,116
- 34,054
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
Any reasonable person reading a confession of faith or Catechism would not conclude the 10 commandments were delivered in the Garden.
The answer was given in what I quoted. It was the law of obedience. And as such mankind fell in disobedience, multiplied and at Sinai received the 10 commandments reflecting man’s relationship in obedience to God and with each other.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Because those verses do not change the meaning...
Do you deny the foreknowledge of God, who knew before the foundation of the world who would accept His Son, and who would reject Him?
Rom_8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
.
Upvote
0
- Mar 18, 2014
- 38,116
- 34,054
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
You have not answered my question yet. Do dead men hear, speak respond?
Upvote
0
- Mar 18, 2014
- 38,116
- 34,054
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Christian
- Marital Status
- Married
They do. All the way back to before the foundations of the earth.
Meaning. You are omitting God’s Sovereign choice.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Since infants have not come to faith during their water baptism, they must have become the "elect" through the will of God.
They must have been "predestined" to be the "elect".
.
Upvote
0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
- Aug 11, 2017
- 22,627
- 7,387
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Non-Denom
- Marital Status
- Married
First we must hear the gospel in order to believe. Then when we believe we begin to have faith that God will grant us His grace thereby we are justified and sanctified by the indwelling Holy Spirit who enables us to resist the temptation of our flesh aka our sinful nature as long as we are steadfast and continue in our faith. As we grow in faith we grow in our walk in the Spirit (the sanctification process) but we must adhere to the guidelines of the Holy Spirit in order for the sanctification process to continue. If we disregard the guidance of the Holy Spirit we cannot walk in the Spirit and are backsliding into our former sinful nature. If this happens we must repent and turn back to God in order to continue our walk in the Spirit. You see the Holy Spirit is like a compass always pointing the way to God. He does not steer the boat. If we fall asleep at the wheel we may wake to find ourselves way off course or maybe worse, shipwrecked for Ye know not when the master of the house may return.
Upvote
0
Similar threads
