dzheremi
Coptic Orthodox non-Egyptian
- Aug 27, 2014
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Am I the only one who thinks it's weird that Mormons can take verses that Christians see as confirming God's creative powers like Jeremiah 1:5 and refashion them into an entire theology about preexisting spirits and all this stuff? That seems much more difficult than just sticking with what they've always been understood to mean by basically everybody. St. Irenaeus of Lyons (c. 120-202) clearly saw what a verse like this was saying, and it wasn't all this wacky nonsense about spirit matter or whatever:
Go figure! It's almost like the more we talk to the Mormons, they more they reveal that they are not actually committed to anything but propping up Mormonism, and if they have to throw Christ under the bus (the Nestorian bus, in the case of He Is The Way and his radical disjunction between Jesus and God), together with the holy scriptures and basically everything else they can get their hands on, then they'll attempt to do so. All so that Joseph Smith can have his silly, clearly pagan "spirit matter" concept. Yuck.
Now, that the Word of God forms us in the womb, He says to Jeremiah, “Before I formed thee in the womb, I knew thee; and before thou wentest forth from the belly, I sanctified thee, and appointed thee a prophet among the nations.” And Paul, too, says in like manner, “But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother’s womb, that I might declare Him among the nations.” (Against Heresies, Book V, Chapter XV)
Against Heresies was written circa 180 AD, which is pretty early on and you'd think would be considered acceptable to our Mormon friends if you've been here a while and can remember the brief love affair one of them had with St. Justin Martyr for the saint's rejected belief in the preexistence of matter together with God, which that particular Mormon attempted to use to show that the Church itself originally taught that, rather than one particular guy whose understanding was rejected (and contradicted some preexisting verses in one of the Maccabees; I don't remember which one, since this conversation was a long time ago, but I remember it was pointed out by one of our Eastern Orthodox friends). Maybe that's the mythical 'great apostasy' at work, assuring that Christianity magically falls into the irrecoverable heresy of...believing that God is the almighty Creator...within only about 30 years of the last thing the Mormons themselves found useful to try to prop up their utterly unsupportable religious doctrines (St. Justin having passed c. 150 AD, so only about 30 years before St. Irenaeus wrote his work).
Go figure! It's almost like the more we talk to the Mormons, they more they reveal that they are not actually committed to anything but propping up Mormonism, and if they have to throw Christ under the bus (the Nestorian bus, in the case of He Is The Way and his radical disjunction between Jesus and God), together with the holy scriptures and basically everything else they can get their hands on, then they'll attempt to do so. All so that Joseph Smith can have his silly, clearly pagan "spirit matter" concept. Yuck.
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