LDS How to Become a God

Peter1000 said:

Sorry, but we accept all of the bible as I have shown you. You are the one that opposes the Word of God when does not meet your agenda. When I point this out to you, your response is a tirade of JS. So I know I am right.

The Church of Jesus Christ takes all scriptures into consideration and comes up with the true gospel of Jesus Christ, not the 1/2 true gospel of Jesus Christ that you preach. So open your eyes and see that there is much more to the process of being saved than "by grace are your saved".

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Wow, more twisting of the truth & deception, stop it already.
Mormonism only believes that IT'S interpretation of the Bible is correct, ---- so just cut it out!

Pedra said:

From Brigham Young:

"Joseph Smith holds the keys of this last dispensation, and is now engaged behind the vail in the great work of the last days. I can tell our beloved brother Christians who have slain the Prophets and butchered and otherwise caused the death of thousands of Latter-day Saints, the priests who have thanked God in their prayers and thanksgiving from the pulpit that we have been plundered, driven, and slain, and the deacons under the pulpit, and their brethren and sisters in their closets, who have thanked God, thinking that the Latter-day Saints were wasted away, something that no doubt will mortify them - something that, to say the least, is a matter of deep regret to them - namely, that no man or woman in this dispensation will ever enter into the celestial kingdom of God without the consent of Joseph Smith. From the day that the Priesthood was taken from the earth to the winding-up scene of all things, every man and woman must have the certificate of Joseph Smith, junior, as a passport to their entrance into the mansion where God and Christ are - I with you and you with me. I cannot go there without his consent. He holds the keys of that kingdom for the last dispensation - the keys to rule in the spirit-world; and he rules there triumphantly, for he gained full power and a glorious victory over the power of Satan while he was yet in the flesh, and was a martyr to his religion and to the name of Christ, which gives him a most perfect victory in the spirit-world. He reigns there as supreme a being in his sphere, capacity, and calling, as God does in heaven. Many will exclaim - "Oh, that is very disagreeable! It is preposterous! We cannot bear the thought!" But it is true."

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First problem with your analysis is that what Brigham Young stated was for "THIS DISPENSATION" nor did he mention children under the age of accountability which makes your statement FALSE, because it states "there was no SALVATION until Joseph Smith restored the real "gospel"" 2+2 do not =5 and that is what you stated.

He is the way said:

First problem with your analysis is that what Brigham Young stated was for "THIS DISPENSATION" nor did he mention children under the age of accountability which makes your statement FALSE, because it states "there was no SALVATION until Joseph Smith restored the real "gospel"" 2+2 do not =5 and that is what you stated.

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Not analysis a quote.
Moronism is not Christian.
Mormonism is based upon the Lie that the complete Bible was lost and was needed to be restored by this dabbler of divination Joseph Smith Jr.
At best , Smith had a demonic visitation that milked his ego telling him he was "chosen" to restore what was lost. THis is a typical pattern and is how Satan deceives some of mankind over the ages. Satan the father of lies, deceives & corrupts the minds & hearts of men/women so they follow false spiritual paths and reject the True God & His true Son , Lord Jesus Christ revealed in the BIBLE but NOT the FALSE Christ that is followed in Mormonism.
Mormonism preaches a different Jesus-- a false Christ that JESUS warned of in Matt 24:24

He is the way said:

Salvation after the age of accountability, according to the Bible, is dependent on many things. I could make a list if you would like.

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That's not what I asked.

Let me ask it again so that it is clear:

Is salvation in the absence of Joseph Smith's restoration of the church therefore dependent on people dying before this 'age of accountability', or is there salvation to be found for people of all ages without Joseph Smith's involvement?

Pedra said:

Wow, more twisting of the truth & deception, stop it already.
Mormonism only believes that IT'S interpretation of the Bible is correct, ---- so just cut it out!

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Then answer the question. Is it only by grace that you are saved through faith and not of works, or is there more to the process of being saved?

Pedra said:

Not analysis a quote.
Moronism is not Christian.
Mormonism is based upon the Lie that the complete Bible was lost and was needed to be restored by this dabbler of divination Joseph Smith Jr.
At best , Smith had a demonic visitation that milked his ego telling him he was "chosen" to restore what was lost. THis is a typical pattern and is how Satan deceives some of mankind over the ages. Satan the father of lies, deceives & corrupts the minds & hearts of men/women so they follow false spiritual paths and reject the True God & His true Son , Lord Jesus Christ revealed in the BIBLE but NOT the FALSE Christ that is followed in Mormonism.
Mormonism preaches a different Jesus-- a false Christ that JESUS warned of in Matt 24:24

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The Church of Jesus Christ teaches the NT Jesus, you teach a Jesus that came out of the Nicean Council in 325. There certainly is a difference.

Peter1000 said:

The Church of Jesus Christ teaches the NT Jesus, you teach a Jesus that came out of the Nicean Council in 325. There certainly is a difference.

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Here's the thing, Mormonism is Not "The church of Jesus Christ", and Mormons are not actually Christian nor are they saints.
Mormonism is founded upon a lie, and all of it's teachings are fables, it is NOT of Christ and all it can do is teach falsehoods.
Joseph Smith restored Nothing & in reality his counterfeit religion--> Opposes Christ and HIS church.
Tragically Mormons have been deceived by the Adversary.

Peter1000 said:

Then answer the question.

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"Then...." ? huh?
So you won't stop being disingenuous about what Mormons actually believe until I answer your question?
I asked you to please stop falsely insisting that Mormons believe the Bible, that is clearly not the case & purposefully misleading. Mormons only believe the NEW interpretations of the Bible that the False prophet Joseph Smith invented as the "restored" scripture.

Peter1000 said:

Sorry, but we accept all of the bible as I have shown you. You are the one that opposes the Word of God when does not meet your agenda. When I point this out to you, your response is a tirade of JS. So I know I am right.

The Church of Jesus Christ takes all scriptures into consideration and comes up with the true gospel of Jesus Christ, not the 1/2 true gospel of Jesus Christ that you preach. So open your eyes and see that there is much more to the process of being saved than "by grace are your saved".

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Even when you people see it in black and white---even red!--you refuse to acknowledge what your very own prophets have said! How totally deceitful! That is just plain lying and that means you have broken that commandment. For crying out loud---your prophets wrote it and you still deny it! If your prophets lied, they are no prophets---simple. It is you who are blinder than bats---at least they have a radsr system---you see it and still deny it! Amazing!! Certainly fulfills this:

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
2Th 2:12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Pedra said:

Not analysis a quote.
Moronism is not Christian.
Mormonism is based upon the Lie that the complete Bible was lost and was needed to be restored by this dabbler of divination Joseph Smith Jr.
At best , Smith had a demonic visitation that milked his ego telling him he was "chosen" to restore what was lost. THis is a typical pattern and is how Satan deceives some of mankind over the ages. Satan the father of lies, deceives & corrupts the minds & hearts of men/women so they follow false spiritual paths and reject the True God & His true Son , Lord Jesus Christ revealed in the BIBLE but NOT the FALSE Christ that is followed in Mormonism.
Mormonism preaches a different Jesus-- a false Christ that JESUS warned of in Matt 24:24

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Well your quote was wrong and the Bible was not LOST either. The way Satan works is to tell people they are saved and do not need to keep the commandments. He is a sly one because he knows that those who LOVE Jesus will keep the commandments and Jesus will LOVE them and so will the Father:

(New Testament | John 14:21)

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

dzheremi said:

That's not what I asked.

Let me ask it again so that it is clear:

Is salvation in the absence of Joseph Smith's restoration of the church therefore dependent on people dying before this 'age of accountability', or is there salvation to be found for people of all ages without Joseph Smith's involvement?

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Do you believe that Jesus Christ will agree with the people who turned against Him? I don't think He will nor do I think He will agree with people who turned against any of God's prophets:

(New Testament | Matthew 23:29 - 39)

29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,
30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.
32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.
33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 ¶ Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

He is the way said:

Well your quote was wrong and the Bible was not LOST either. The way Satan works is to tell people they are saved and do not need to keep the commandments. He is a sly one because he knows that those who LOVE Jesus will keep the commandments and Jesus will LOVE them and so will the Father:
(New Testament | John 14:21)

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

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FYI, it was a direct quote. Sorry , very busy today....not a lot of time to read or post....
No Christian believes or claims that we don't obey God's commands, but it is the Holy Spirit in us when we are born again that produces good works & begins the work of sanctification.
Being outside of Christianity & not taught correctly you don't seem to understand the doctrine of salvation, of being born from above by the baptism of the Holy Spirit. It is when someone is a true born again follower of Jesus that the good works happen as a result.

"For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them "– Ephesians 2:10 (NKJV)

He is the way said:

Do you believe that Jesus Christ will agree with the people who turned against Him?

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I'm asking about Joseph Smith, not Jesus Christ. Is Joseph Smith the true Jesus Christ of Mormonism? Otherwise, your question is irrelevant.

I don't think He will nor do I think He will agree with people who turned against any of God's prophets:

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The difference is that none of God's actual prophets were ever directly involved in the salvation of individuals. It would be wrong, for instance, to say that salvation is through Moses, or David, or Mark, or John, or Paul. Remember, "One says 'I am of Paul', and another 'I am of Apollos' -- are you not carnal?" The true prophets of God lead people to salvation in Him, not through their own powers, since they recognize that they have none of themselves. Joseph Smith, meanwhile, boasted in all that he had done. So the two are not comparable.

And anyway, this is all still not answering the question. It's a simple yes or no question, and yet you are clearly dodging it.

Again:

Is salvation in the absence of Joseph Smith's restoration of the church therefore dependent on people dying before this 'age of accountability', or is there salvation to be found for people of all ages without Joseph Smith's involvement?

Please answer the question. And make sure your answer this time is either yes or no, not a question followed by a lengthy Bible quote. It should be easy to answer, assuming you are not embarrassed by your own religion's doctrine in mixed company. (I don't know why else anyone would not answer a yes or no question appropriately.)

dzheremi said:

I'm asking about Joseph Smith, not Jesus Christ. Is Joseph Smith the true Jesus Christ of Mormonism? Otherwise, your question is irrelevant.



The difference is that none of God's actual prophets were ever directly involved in the salvation of individuals. It would be wrong, for instance, to say that salvation is through Moses, or David, or Mark, or John, or Paul. Remember, "One says 'I am of Paul', and another 'I am of Apollos' -- are you not carnal?" The true prophets of God lead people to salvation in Him, not through their own powers, since they recognize that they have none of themselves. Joseph Smith, meanwhile, boasted in all that he had done. So the two are not comparable.

And anyway, this is all still not answering the question. It's a simple yes or no question, and yet you are clearly dodging it.

Again:

Is salvation in the absence of Joseph Smith's restoration of the church therefore dependent on people dying before this 'age of accountability', or is there salvation to be found for people of all ages without Joseph Smith's involvement?

Please answer the question. And make sure your answer this time is either yes or no, not a question followed by a lengthy Bible quote. It should be easy to answer, assuming you are not embarrassed by your own religion's doctrine in mixed company. (I don't know why else anyone would not answer a yes or no question appropriately.)

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You said: "The difference is that none of God's actual prophets were ever directly involved in the salvation of individuals."

So you do not believe that John the Baptist had anything to do with salvation? How about the apostles:

(New Testament | Luke 22:30)

30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

(New Testament | Luke 16:29 - 31)

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

You said: "is there salvation to be found for people of all ages without Joseph Smith's involvement?"
Not for people who live in this dispensation of time. Each dispensation will have judges, Abraham is one of them.

He is the way said:

You said: "The difference is that none of God's actual prophets were ever directly involved in the salvation of individuals."

So you do not believe that John the Baptist had anything to do with salvation? How about the apostles:

(New Testament | Luke 22:30)

30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

(New Testament | Luke 16:29 - 31)

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

You said: "is there salvation to be found for people of all ages without Joseph Smith's involvement?"
Not for people who live in this dispensation of time. Each dispensation will have judges, Abraham is one of them.

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Not a single one pointed to themselves as the way to salvation--they all pointed to the scriptures and to Jesus. JS was All about himself and his followers point to him not to Jesus and you read what BY said and you quite simply can not deny it.

mmksparbud said:

Not a single one pointed to themselves as the way to salvation--they all pointed to the scriptures and to Jesus. JS was All about himself and his followers point to him not to Jesus and you read what BY said and you quite simply can not deny it.

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Jesus was a prophet and He said:

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 45:7 - 8)

7 For verily I say unto you that I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the light and the life of the world—a light that shineth in darkness and the darkness comprehendeth it not.
8 I came unto mine own, and mine own received me not; but unto as many as received me gave I power to do many miracles, and to become the sons of God; and even unto them that believed on my name gave I power to obtain eternal life.

He is the way said:

You said: "The difference is that none of God's actual prophets were ever directly involved in the salvation of individuals."

So you do not believe that John the Baptist had anything to do with salvation? How about the apostles:

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I made clear the sense in which I meant that in the same post: No prophet pointed to themselves as the means to salvation. That is a feature of non-Christian religions like Islam (where everyone has to believe in and slavishly follow Muhammad) and Mormonism (where everyone has to believe in and slavishly follow Joseph Smith), but that has never been a feature of Christianity. When our apostle St. Mark came to Egypt, it was not with the message "I am a prophet of God, so if you don't follow me God will damn you", but rather "Jesus Christ is the incarnate Word of God, the Only-Begotten Son of God the Father, Who was crucified upon the cross and on the third day rose from the dead, defeating death and freeing us thereby from the bonds of sin and the death that came through them. Believe in Him, and you will be saved."

Now you might say that this is the same thing, but just one step removed, as it is the apostle who brought us this message, so of course if we rejected him we would be rejecting God, but the point is what the focus of the message is to begin with, because when the message itself is true then it makes it much easier to accept, not really without caring about the apostle (I cannot overstate how much the Egyptians care about St. Mark; other than the Theotokos St. Mary, I can't think of another saint who is more highly honored in the Church), but without making the apostle into the linchpin of the message itself.

The focus of the message of Christianity is God incarnate in the person of Jesus Christ our Lord, God, and Savior; the focus of the message of Mormonism is that God's church became corrupted over time and then this really amazing guy named Joseph Smith restored it and wrote a book about ancient Hebrew Indians in the Americas and if you believe in that guy and his book, God might make you into a god and then you can have tons of spirit children who will worship you as God just like you worship God as one of his spirit children here on earth.

The incarnation of the eternal Word of God and His once and for all triumph over sin and death vs. the corruption of what the Word of God established and purchased through His blood, and its restoration by Joseph Smith.

Hopefully the difference is clear enough now.

You said: "is there salvation to be found for people of all ages without Joseph Smith's involvement?"
Not for people who live in this dispensation of time.

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Okay. That's a no. Thank you. I don't know why that took so many posts to get an actual answer, but thank you for finally answering. I appreciate it.

He is the way said:

Jesus was a prophet and He said:

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 45:7 - 8)

7 For verily I say unto you that I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the light and the life of the world—a light that shineth in darkness and the darkness comprehendeth it not.
8 I came unto mine own, and mine own received me not; but unto as many as received me gave I power to do many miracles, and to become the sons of God; and even unto them that believed on my name gave I power to obtain eternal life.

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And that has exactly what to do with the fact that your prophets all said that one can not enter into salvation without JS??