Personal project the Trinity

St_Worm2

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The what creed? St worm 2 from that cartoon.
It's one of the historic creeds of the church, along with the Apostles' Creed, the Nicene Creed, and the Symbol of Chalcedon.

The Athanasian Creed
Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith; Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.

And the catholic faith is this: That we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; Neither confounding the persons nor dividing the substance. For there is one person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit.

But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit is all one, the glory equal, the majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. And yet they are not three eternals but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated nor three incomprehensible, but one uncreated and one incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty. And yet they are not three almighties, but one almighty. So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God; And yet they are not three Gods, but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord; And yet they are not three Lords but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say; There are three Gods or three Lords. The Father is made of none, neither created nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made nor created, but begotten. The Holy Spirit is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Spirit, not three Holy Spirits. And in this Trinity none is afore or after another; none is greater or less than another. But the whole three persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid, the Unity in Trinity and the Trinity in Unity is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved must thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore it is necessary to everlasting salvation that he also believe rightly the incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right faith is that we believe and confess that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and man. God of the substance of the Father, begotten before the worlds; and man of substance of His mother, born in the world. Perfect God and perfect man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father as touching His Godhead, and inferior to the Father as touching His manhood. Who, although He is God and man, yet He is not two, but one Christ. One, not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh, but by taking of that manhood into God. One altogether, not by confusion of substance, but by unity of person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man, so God and man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation, descended into hell, rose again the third day from the dead; He ascended into heaven, He sits on the right hand of the Father, God, Almighty; From thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead. At whose coming all men shall rise again with their bodies; and shall give account of their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting and they that have done evil into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith, which except a man believe faithfully he cannot be saved.
"Catholic" means universal in this creed (not Roman Catholic). Also, try not to get to hung up with understanding everything in this creed right away, because at first blush it is anything but easy or plain .. no matter what the "twins" said in that video I posted above ;)

--David
 
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Radagast

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It's an independent church, not part of a denomination, so anything could be going on there.

However, according to the church website, the pastor, Ram Krishnamurthy, dropped out of seminary without completing his studies. That's probably a bad sign.

I would suggest getting input from Canadian CF members in a more appropriate subforum.
 
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St_Worm2

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I agree with @Radagast, you should seek the advice of other Canadian Christians around here concerning Grace Bible Church, That said, as Statements of Faith go (their core beliefs about God and the faith), their's is pretty good actually :) Here it is (in two parts):

1. The Scriptures
  • The Bible which comprises of 66 books is God’s unalterable source of revelation to all mankind.
  • The Bible is divinely inspired [breathed out by God], infallible, inerrant, supreme and therefore is the final authority for faith and life.

Scripture References: 2 Peter 1:20-21; 2 Timothy 3:16; John 17:17

2. Trinity
  • There is only One true and living God, an infinite, all-knowing Spirit, perfect and flawless in all of his attributes; One in essence, eternally existing in three Persons—the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
  • Each of the three Persons are equally deserving of our worship and obedience.

Scripture References: Deuteronomy 6:4; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Matthew 28:19; 2 Corinthians 13:14

a. God the Father
  • God the Father, the first Person of the Trinity, as the Creator, is the Father of all people, but is the spiritual Father of believers only.
  • It is God the Father who chose from eternity past to send his Son to be a sacrifice for sins.

Scripture References: Ephesians 4:6; Romans 8:14; 2 Corinthians 6:18; Acts 2:23; 1 Peter 1:20

b. God the Son
  • Jesus Christ is God, the second Person of the Trinity, who became a Man, born of a virgin and lived a sinless life.
  • In all of his miracles and in his willing, sacrificial and substitutionary death on the cross.
  • He physically rose from the dead on the third day as the guarantee of our justification, ascended to the right hand of the Father and is currently mediating as the Advocate and High Priest for His people.

Scripture References: Matthew 1:22; John 14:9; Hebrews 1:3; Philippians 2:5-8; 1 Peter 2:22; Isaiah 53:4; John 10:15; Romans 5:8; 1 Peter 2:24; Romans 1:4; 1 Corinthians 15:16-20; Acts 1:9; Romans 8:34; Hebrews 7:25; 1 John 2:1

c. God the Holy Spirit
  • The Holy Spirit is God, the third Person of the Trinity, who convicts the world of sin, regenerates, draws the sinner to Christ and baptizes the repentant sinner into the body of Christ at the time of conversion.
  • In the Spirit-filled life and that the Holy Spirit indwells, sanctifies, instructs, comforts, guides, empowers and seals all believers until the day of redemption.
  • The Holy Spirit gives spiritual gifts to every believer. These gifts are solely meant for the purposes of glorifying Christ, building up of the Church and are to be exercised for the profit of all.
  • The sign gifts such as tongues, etc., were given for temporary purposes and passed away after the apostles.

Scripture References: John 3:5-8; Titus 3:5; John 16:8; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Corinthians 12:13; John 14:16; Acts 1:8; 2 Corinthians 1:22; 1 John 2:20; 1 Corinthians 12:18; 1 Peter 4:10; John 16:14; 1 Corinthians 14:12; 1 Corinthians 12:7; 2 Corinthians 12:12; Hebrews 2:3-4

3. Angels
  • Angels are created beings and hence are not to be worshiped.
  • Satan is a created angel, originally created holy, but became evil by rebelling against God with several other angels and thereby incurred God’s judgment.
  • Satan, the unholy god of this age who is presently deceiving people with his demons, has been defeated through the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ and in future will be eternally punished in the lake of fire along with his demons.

Scripture References: Matthew 4:10; Colossians 2:18; Revelation 19:10; Isaiah 14:12-17; Ezekiel 28:11-19; 2 Corinthians 4:4; 2 Corinthians 11:13-15; Colossians 2:13-15; 1 John 3:8; Romans 16:20; Matthew 25:41; Revelation 20:7-10

4. Creation
  • The creation details as given in Genesis that this universe including humans were created in six successive 24-hour days.
  • Human beings are a direct creation of God and not a product of evolution.

Scripture References: Genesis 1-2; Exodus 20:11; John 1:3; Acts 17:24-26; Colossians 1:16-17; Hebrews 11:3

5. Fall of Man
  • Man was created in the image of God, holy and free of sin with intelligence and moral responsibility; that he willfully sinned, lost his innocence and thereby incurred not only physical death, but also spiritual death which is separation from God.
  • Since the time of the Fall, all human beings are born with a sinful nature, and when they reach moral responsibility, become sinners in thought, word and actions.

Scripture References: Genesis 1:26-27, 3:6, 24; Ephesians 2:1-3; Romans 3:10-19, 5:2
 
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St_Worm2

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Part II:

6. Salvation
  • Salvation of a person is completely by God’s grace and is solely based on the redemptive work of Jesus Christ on the cross.
  • Salvation is in no way contributed to nor accomplished by any merit or work of the individual.
  • Regeneration, or the new birth is instantaneous and solely a work of God’s grace whereby sinners become new creatures in Christ Jesus. It is a change of heart wrought by the Holy Spirit who through the word of God brings conviction of sin, to which the sinner responds in repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
  • The converted or born-again person naturally bears fruit in keeping with the new-birth.
  • Salvation is a free offer made to all mankind and that nothing prevents the salvation of the greatest sinner on earth except personal willful rejection of the gospel.
  • Since salvation is completely the work of the Lord, those who are saved are eternally kept by God’s power, secure in Christ forever and will also persevere in the faith till the very end.
  • This assurance of salvation does not give license for the believer to lead a sinful life, but on the contrary enables the believer to pursue a life of holiness with an attitude of love and gratitude towards the Lord and stays away from all kinds of sinful practices and associations.

Scripture References: Ephesians 1:7, 2:8-10; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:18-19; John 3:5-8; 1 Peter 1:22-23; Acts 3:19, 11:18; Romans 10:9-10; Philippians 2:10-11; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Matthew 3:8, 7:17-23; Ephesians 2:10; Mathew 11:28; John 3:16, 6:37; Romans 1:18-20; 1 Peter 1:5; John 6:40, 10:28-29; Romans 8:1, 31-39; Hebrews 10:39; 2 Timothy 2:19; 1 John 2:19; Romans 6:1-22; 2 Corinthians 3:18; Romans 12:1-2; 1 Peter 1:14-16; 2 Corinthians 6:14-7:1; 2 Timothy 3:1-5

7. Church
  • Jesus Christ established His church, which is made up of all that have truly placed their faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
  • The Church, also called as the body and bride of Christ, has Christ only as its head and obeys his word as found in the Bible.
  • The Scriptures clearly teach the establishment of local churches and that each believer should be actively involved in such a fellowship.
  • We believe that the teachings and functioning of the local Church is to be free from any external human authority or control and is led by elders (men, also known as pastors, bishops, overseers) that are assisted by deacons who fit the biblical qualifications.
  • We also believe that it is biblical for like-minded churches to work together for the spread of the gospel.
  • We believe that the purpose of the Church is to:


  • Worship God through Christ
    • Preach and teach the whole counsel of God
    • Communicate the gospel to the entire world
    • Build up one another
    • Practice the ordinances of water baptism of new disciples by immersion which is the outward sign of the inward new-birth
    • Partake in the Lord’s supper (after serious self examination) as a continual reminder of Christ’s death and his imminent return
    • Practice church discipline in order to protect the sinning Christian from pursuing a lifestyle of sin as well as to maintain the purity of the Church

Scripture References: Matthew 16:18; Colossians 1:18; 2 Corinthians 11:2; Revelation 19:7; Acts 14:23, 20:28; Philippians 1:1; Ephesians 4:12; Hebrews 10:25; 1 Timothy 3:1-13; Titus 1:5-9; 1 Peter 5:1-3; Ephesians 3:21; Matthew 28:20; Luke 24:46-48; Acts 20:27; Matthew 28:19; Acts 1:8; Ephesians 4:13-16; Hebrews 10:24-25; Acts 2:41; Romans 6:3-5; Luke 22:19-20; 1 Corinthians 11:23-32; Matthew 18:15-20; 1 Corinthians 5; Galatians 6:1-2; James 5:19-20

8. Second Coming and Judgment
  • In the physical bodily return of the Lord Jesus Christ as occurring in two phases:

    • The first phase of his return, which can occur at any moment, is for taking his church to heaven.
    • After this event, there will be a 7-year period called the Tribulation when God will pour out his judgment on the earth.
    • The second phase of his return will occur following this period of Tribulation when Christ will physically come to earth with all his people to destroy all unbelievers and establish his kingdom on the earth for a thousand years.
  • At the end of the thousand years, Satan and his demons will be cast into the eternal lake of fire called hell; that all who have not believed in Christ will stand before him in judgment, called the Great White Throne Judgment, and as a result of their unforgiven sins will be committed forever to hell, which is a real, conscious and eternal place of torment.
  • After this judgment, the entire universe including earth will be destroyed by fire and will be replaced with a new earth completely free of any sin or curse and a new heavenly city that will be a part of this earth.
  • Only those that have trusted in the Lord Jesus Christ alone for their salvation will live forever in this new heaven and new earth under the protection and care of the One God eternally existing in three Persons.

Scripture References: John 14:1-3; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18; Revelation 6-18; 1 Corinthians 6:2; 2 Timothy 2:12; Revelation 19:1-20:6, 20:7-15; John 5:22, 28-29; Matthew 25:41; 2 Thessalonians 1:9; 2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 21-22

9. Government
  • God establishes the local government and that we are to honor, pray for and submit to them except in those things opposed to the will of God as stated in Scriptures.

Scripture References: Acts 4:19, 5:29; Romans 13:1-7; 1 Timothy 2:1-2; 1 Peter 2:13-17
 
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St_Worm2

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Hi @Clintjohnson, one thing that's always important to remember about the nature of the Godhead (and therefore, the church's doctrine of the Trinity) is this, it's one of the truths in the Bible that we refer to as a "mystery". IOW, it's true, even though our finite minds cannot fully grasp/comprehend how such a thing is possible.

The doctrine of the Trinity seeks to circumscribe and safeguard this particular Biblical "mystery", not explain it, because that is beyond any of us (IOW, we cannot understand how our one God can exist eternally as three distinct Persons, but we know that it's true nevertheless, and we accept it as such, because that's what God teaches us about Himself in the Bible).

--David
 
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Radagast

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As statements of faith go (their core beliefs about God and the faith)

Yeah, on paper it looks like a standard Independent Conservative Calvinist Cessationist Creationist Baptist church.

But how does that play out on the ground? The whole concept of an independent church with an untrained pastor can go very wrong.

I'd be very reluctant to advise the OP to go there without knowing more.

And Windsor is a decent-sized town (pop 220,000). There must be better options.
 
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St_Worm2

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Yeah, on paper it looks like a standard Independent Conservative Calvinist Cessationist Creationist Baptist church.

But how does that play out on the ground? The whole concept of an independent church with an untrained pastor can go very wrong.

I'd be very reluctant to advise the OP to go there without knowing more.

And Windsor is a decent-sized town. There must be better options.
I agree with you (and I just edited the opening comments of post #25 to reflect that).

That said, the part in bold above (from you) is quite the descriptive mouthful :D

Thank you for your excellent insights and advice brother :oldthumbsup::oldthumbsup:, as always :)

--David
 
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Radagast

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That said, the part in bold above (from you) is quite the descriptive mouthful :D

1. I've had some practice in decoding church statements of belief. One looks for which specific issues they are taking a stand on, and which expected things are missing.

2. I've seen a few ICCCCB churches in my time. Some were really, really good. Others, not so much.

3. I left out "Pre-trib" (so it should really have been IPCCCCB), but that would have spoiled the alliteration.
 
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Silly question is just because I am weird and have autism I feel that it is in correct. But to baptize in the holy spirit would he wrong right? Now if jesus was baptized in the father son and holy spirit. Why do so many peoe say it is wrong g and that jesus is the only name?

Jesus Himself said:
Matthew 28
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

So, I wouldn't say that's wrong. Jesus commanded it right there in that verse.
 
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Clintjohnson

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It's an independent church, not part of a denomination, so anything could be going on there.

However, according to the church website, the pastor, Ram Krishnamurthy, dropped out of seminary without completing his studies. That's probably a bad sign.

I would suggest getting input from Canadian CF members in a more appropriate subforum.
I'll post a new thread. Thank you
 
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