Did the event of 1948 Israel fulfill any Bible prophecy?

Did event of Israel 1948 fulfill any Bible prophecy?


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jgr

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Not Gods Word- but some of mens translations are!

And yes it does not appear anywhere, but taking each definition as established for centuries- we find which one is the most reasonable in that passage!

The act of creating makes no sense!
the Word has gone out to all creation makes no sense

How about the more modern dynamic translation- every tribe of men? Makes no sense- NOrth Americans or south Americans building ocean going vessels in the first century?
Chinese? Indians? Celts, Russians , Mongols? We have recorded history of when these nations were first approached with the gospel. And there is no account that people had heard it because someone from those areas prior to 60 A.D. went to Jerusalem or some part of teh Roman Empire that Paul had gotten to or Titus or Barnabas.''So institutions- govts. familes, Gentiles, Jews,

As is seen, there is not a single English Bible translation, contemporary or historical, that translates, or has ever translated, Colossians 1:23 with the word “institutions” or its equivalent.

I would even go so far as to aver that there is not, nor has there ever been, any Bible translation, in any language on earth, that translates Colossians 1:23 with the word “institutions” or its equivalent.

You are invited to locate and cite one for us. Just one.

So what is the mathematical probability that all Bible translations, in all languages, ever produced; are wrong, and you are right?

There's a quasi-mathematical term for that probability.

It is “infinitesmal”.

Paul the Apostle, and the Holy Spirit who inspired him, win again.
 
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nolidad

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As is seen, there is not a single English Bible translation, contemporary or historical, that translates, or has ever translated, Colossians 1:23 with the word “institutions” or its equivalent.

I would even go so far as to aver that there is not, nor has there ever been, any Bible translation, in any language on earth, that translates Colossians 1:23 with the word “institutions” or its equivalent.

You are invited to locate and cite one for us. Just one.

So what is the mathematical probability that all Bible translations, in all languages, ever produced; are wrong, and you are right?

There's a quasi-mathematical term for that probability.

It is “infinitesmal”.

Paul the Apostle, and the Holy Spirit who inspired him, win again.

Well then given the standard normal everyday understanding of the words Ktisis, and not Thayers extension by implication- you believe that the gospel was preached to EVERY man, animal, and plant!

IUf you can show me one standard work on Greek that translates ktisis as Thayer does prior to thayer and gives examples of it in greek texts- then you have something.

but let me ask you this. Paul was no dummy, he knew greek better than you or I or even Thayer! If he wanted to convey people groups, why did he not use the common very well understood words- kosmos or even better, ethnos? Do you think he had a bad day? Hung over? or just plain stupid?
 
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BABerean2

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Well then given the standard normal everyday understanding of the words Ktisis, and not Thayers extension by implication- you believe that the gospel was preached to EVERY man, animal, and plant!

IUf you can show me one standard work on Greek that translates ktisis as Thayer does prior to thayer and gives examples of it in greek texts- then you have something.

Luk 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.

Does the above include Alaska, and Mexico?

.
 
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nolidad

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Luk 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.

Does the above include Alaska, and Mexico?

Well if you went past just trying to play gotcha and actually did just a teeny weeny bit of research,
you would see that Luke used the word oikoumenē which means the whole world, the whole universe or a specific area in consideration! Context determinies which and seeing it was a cesar making a decree- it would be the roman oikoumene.
 
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jgr

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Well then given the standard normal everyday understanding of the words Ktisis, and not Thayers extension by implication- you believe that the gospel was preached to EVERY man, animal, and plant!

IUf you can show me one standard work on Greek that translates ktisis as Thayer does prior to thayer and gives examples of it in greek texts- then you have something.

but let me ask you this. Paul was no dummy, he knew greek better than you or I or even Thayer! If he wanted to convey people groups, why did he not use the common very well understood words- kosmos or even better, ethnos? Do you think he had a bad day? Hung over? or just plain stupid?

You have yet to produce a single instance, in Colossians 1:23, of your alleged "standard normal everyday" translation in any Bible translation, in any language, at any time past or present.

What is the probability that Paul would have considered every translator who has ever lived "stupid"?

Here's that useful word again that gives us the answer.

Infinitesmal.

Still waiting.
 
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parousia70

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Well the gospel has been preached to all the Roman Empire of Jesus day (that is an acceptable translation if context warrants it), but the end has not come. So we must conclude (unless you believe Jesus could be mistaken) that He had a different focus than just the empire when He spoke this of the last days.

So, you're saying Jesus didn't mean what He said, and instead meant something entirely different from what He said, and I'm the one who could believe Jesus was mistaken??

Or, Jesus meant exactly what He said, and the Gospel was indeed preached to all the world in their generation, just as Jesus prophesied it would be, and the end did indeed come on time, as prophesied.... but the "end" Jesus was talking about is not "the end" you think it is....

That's my bet.

From my perspective, The likelihood that YOU are mistaken is far greater than the likelihood that Jesus meant something different from what He actually SAID.
 
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nolidad

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You have yet to produce a single instance, in Colossians 1:23, of your alleged "standard normal everyday" translation in any Bible translation, in any language, at any time past or present.

What is the probability that Paul would have considered every translator who has ever lived "stupid"?

Here's that useful word again that gives us the answer.

Infinitesmal.

Still waiting.

Well once again , for it seems you have missed it earlier, institutions/ordinance is the tertiary use of the word.

If Ktisis appears as a verb- it is the act of creating
If it appears as a noun, it is created things or creation.

If those do not fit naturally then there is the tertiary definition: institution or ordinance (1 Pe. 2)

Well we know it is not a verb here so creating is out!
We know that the gospel had not left the Roman Empire by 60 A.D. and that we have no record of chinese, Japanese, Koreans, North and South Americans or any sub saharan Africans hearing and then taking the gospel to their home countries by this time either, so that is a nonsensical translation as well. Same with preaching to bugs and daffodils and kangaroos.


so that leaves institutions of heaven.

There is another possibility that makes as much sense.

Wit the use of the word "every" (pas) which is defined thusly:

  1. individually
    1. each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
  2. collectively
    1. some of all types
      Now we know that not each and every individual under heaven had the gospel preached to them by 60 AD so what about some of all types? God in HIs word only recognizes two types of people, Jew and Gentile. So this is just as acceptable in saying that the gospel had been preached to Jew and gentile under heaven. In reality this is the one I prefer but I was curious as to how you would respond to a very legitimate translation of Ktisis.
 
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nolidad

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So, you're saying Jesus didn't mean what He said, and instead meant something entirely different from what He said, and I'm the one who could believe Jesus was mistaken??

No I don't believe Jesus was mistaken- but peoples re interpreting His Words out of their context are!

Once the 70th week of Daniel commences- then the gospel of the kingdom will be preached globally! The gospel as of yesat still has not reached over 200 people groups. We have reached all 7 continents but not all tribes and ethnos.

Or, Jesus meant exactly what He said, and the Gospel was indeed preached to all the world in their generation, just as Jesus prophesied it would be, and the end did indeed come on time, as prophesied.... but the "end" Jesus was talking about is not "the end" you think it is....

That's my bet.

So you take the english words to all the world literally (so the gospel hit North and South America, China, the mongols, the celts, Sub-Saharan Africa) but you take the english word end- non literally? Wow! talk about ripping verses out of their context to suit a predisposed feeling.


That's my bet.

From my perspective, The likelihood that YOU are mistaken is far greater than the likelihood that Jesus meant something different from what He actually SAID.

Well what yours, mine or anyone else perspective is- means nothing- what Scripture says is what matters.
 
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jgr

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Well once again , for it seems you have missed it earlier, institutions/ordinance is the tertiary use of the word.

If Ktisis appears as a verb- it is the act of creating
If it appears as a noun, it is created things or creation.

If those do not fit naturally then there is the tertiary definition: institution or ordinance (1 Pe. 2)

Well we know it is not a verb here so creating is out!
We know that the gospel had not left the Roman Empire by 60 A.D. and that we have no record of chinese, Japanese, Koreans, North and South Americans or any sub saharan Africans hearing and then taking the gospel to their home countries by this time either, so that is a nonsensical translation as well. Same with preaching to bugs and daffodils and kangaroos.


so that leaves institutions of heaven.

There is another possibility that makes as much sense.

Wit the use of the word "every" (pas) which is defined thusly:

  1. individually
    1. each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
  2. collectively
    1. some of all types
      Now we know that not each and every individual under heaven had the gospel preached to them by 60 AD so what about some of all types? God in HIs word only recognizes two types of people, Jew and Gentile. So this is just as acceptable in saying that the gospel had been preached to Jew and gentile under heaven. In reality this is the one I prefer but I was curious as to how you would respond to a very legitimate translation of Ktisis.

Still awaiting that translation instance.

No translator "in all creation under heaven" has ever agreed with you.
 
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parousia70

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No I don't believe Jesus was mistaken- but peoples re interpreting His Words out of their context are!
I agree.

Once the 70th week of Daniel commences- then the gospel of the kingdom will be preached globally!
What scripture do you believe prophesies this?

The gospel as of yesat still has not reached over 200 people groups. We have reached all 7 continents but not all tribes and ethnos.

Again, what scripture do you interpret to say it will?

So you take the english words to all the world literally (so the gospel hit North and South America, China, the mongols, the celts, Sub-Saharan Africa)

No.. I take it to mean the reaches of the Roman Empire, The way Jesus and the apostles MEANT, as the language they used confirms.
I don’t attempt to apply an interpretation that does not exist in the text simply because taking the text at face value does not match my expected paradigm. I have adjusted my paradigm to match the text. I believe that’s the correct approach.

but you take the english word end- non literally?

I take END literally...
Where did you come up with the notion I don't?

Its the literal end of WHAT that we disagree on... you say He meant the material cosmos, I say He meant the Mosaic Economy..
One of us is correct.

Well what yours, mine or anyone else perspective is- means nothing- what Scripture says is what matters.

We begin on an area of agreement, we end on one as well :)
 
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nolidad

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Still awaiting that translation instance.

No translator "in all creation under heaven" has ever agreed with you.

and you have no evidence that the basic English translation that by 60AD the gospel had been preached to every Every means every) creature under heaven!

I look at the historic uses of the terms and then consider the reality of each three definitions and find that the gospel had been preached to every people group (Jew and Gentile) under heaven is the most biblically accurate and honest!

Maybe if you looked athe greek more and not just Thayers implications without warrant you could see the reality of it!
 
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nolidad

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What scripture do you believe prophesies this?

It is actually a series of scriptures.

first Matthew 24. 14-35 form an end time thought. The and in 14 (kai) is not a connective but a break for a new thought.

The gospel preached here notice carefully is not a gospel for salvation but as a testimony against the nations.

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. It is not to every individual but to all peoples (ethnos)

Then the nature of the sealing of the 144,000 Jewish virgins. that sealing is for service and they are commissioned to preach the gospel of the kingdom as a testimony against the nations! this is a lengthy thing so I would recommend you try to get a copy of the book "Footsteps of the Messiah" by A. Fruchtenbaum at ariel.org. He goes into length about the 144,000

No.. I take it to mean the reaches of the Roman Empire, The way Jesus and the apostles MEANT, as the language they used confirms.
I don’t attempt to apply an interpretation that does not exist in the text simply because taking the text at face value does not match my expected paradigm. I have adjusted my paradigm to match the text. I believe that’s the correct approach.

So you believe Col. 1:23 mean to every creature in the Roman Empire? But it doesn't say that!

Colossians 1:23 King James Version (KJV)
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Paul said under heaven (ouranous) and that is never meant as a empire or country or land mass- it means heaven! Paul said that the gospel was preached to every creature under the heaven! Paul knew there was more heaven than what was above the Roman Empire!

I take END literally...
Where did you come up with the notion I don't?

Its the literal end of WHAT that we disagree on... you say He meant the material cosmos, I say He meant the Mosaic Economy..
One of us is correct.

Well I never even implied the end of the material cosmos- so you are wrong on two accounts.

But with teh death, resurrection ascension of Jesus and teh birth of the church at Pentecost- the end of the Mosaic economy came to an end and the church age or age of grace began! The gospel hadn't hit the gentile world yet! So you have a real problem!
 
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jgr

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and you have no evidence that the basic English translation that by 60AD the gospel had been preached to every Every means every) creature under heaven!

I look at the historic uses of the terms and then consider the reality of each three definitions and find that the gospel had been preached to every people group (Jew and Gentile) under heaven is the most biblically accurate and honest!

Maybe if you looked athe greek more and not just Thayers implications without warrant you could see the reality of it!

Ask any translator why he/she could not see the reality of it! !
 
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BABerean2

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first Matthew 24. 14-35 form an end time thought.

Olivet Timing Revealed by Luke’s Gospel:

Compare Luke's Gospel to that of Matthew if you want to understand the timing.


Jesus Foretells Destruction of the Temple (These subtitles are found in e-Sword.)

Luk 21:5  Then, as some spoke of the temple, how it was adorned with beautiful stones and donations, He said, 
Luk 21:6  "These things which you see—the days will come in which not one stone shall be left upon another that shall not be thrown down." 

(Mat 24:2  And Jesus said to them, "Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down." )


Luk 21:7  So they asked Him, saying, "Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?" 

(Mat 24:3  Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?")

( Mar 13:3  Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives opposite the temple, Peter, James, John, and Andrew asked Him privately, 

Mar 13:4  "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign when all these things will be fulfilled?") 



Luk 21:8  And He said: "Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am He,' and, 'The time has drawn near.' Therefore do not go after them. 
(Mat 24:5  For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. )



Luk 21:9  But when you hear of wars and commotions, do not be terrified; for these things must come to pass first, but the end will not come immediately."

(Mat 24:6  And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.) 


Jesus Foretells Wars and Persecution

Luk 21:10  Then He said to them, "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 

(Mat 24:7  For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. )



Luk 21:11  And there will be great earthquakes in various places, and famines and pestilences; and there will be fearful sights and great signs from heaven. 

(Mat 24:7  For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. )



Luk 21:12  But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and prisons. You will be brought before kings and rulers for My name's sake. 

(Mat 24:9  "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake.) (Read Acts 22:19-20, where Paul reveals that he fulfilled this text.)



Luk 21:13  But it will turn out for you as an occasion for testimony. 
Luk 21:14  Therefore settle it in your hearts not to meditate beforehand on what you will answer; 
Luk 21:15  for I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries will not be able to contradict or resist. 
Luk 21:16  You will be betrayed even by parents and brothers, relatives and friends; and they will put some of you to death. 
Luk 21:17  And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. 

(Mat 24:10  And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. )



Luk 21:18  But not a hair of your head shall be lost. 
Luk 21:19  By your patience possess your souls. 

(Mat 24:13  But he who endures to the end shall be saved.) 


Jesus Foretells Destruction of Jerusalem

Luk 21:20  "But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near. (See also Luke 19:41-44)

(Mat 24:15  "Therefore when you see the 'ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 


Luk 21:21  Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those who are in the midst of her depart, and let not those who are in the country enter her. 

(Mat 24:16  "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.) 



Luk 21:22  For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. 
Luk 21:23  But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people. 

(Mat 24:19  But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! ) (See Luke 23:27-31 where Jesus warned the women weeping for Him.)


Luk 21:24  And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled. 
(Almost all Bible scholars agree that the first part of the verse above is about 70 AD. At the end of the verse we find a period of time known as “the times of the Gentiles”. In the verses that follow we find the future Second Coming of Christ.)

The Coming of the Son of Man

Luk 21:25  "And there will be signs in the sun, in the moon, and in the stars; and on the earth distress of nations, with perplexity, the sea and the waves roaring; 

(Mat 24:29  "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken.) 



Luk 21:26  men's hearts failing them from fear and the expectation of those things which are coming on the earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 
Luk 21:27  Then they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 

(Mat 24:30  Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.) 



Luk 21:28  Now when these things begin to happen, look up and lift up your heads, because your redemption draws near." 

(Mat 24:33  So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors!)

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

From "Antiquities of the Jews" by Josephus, Book 12, chapter 7

"6. When therefore the generals of Antiochus's armies had been beaten so often, Judas assembled the people together, and told them, that after these many victories which God had given them, they ought to go up to Jerusalem, and purify the temple, and offer the appointed sacrifices. But as soon as he, with the whole multitude, was come to Jerusalem, and found the temple deserted, and its gates burnt down, and plants growing in the temple of their own accord, on account of its desertion, he and those that were with him began to lament, and were quite confounded at the sight of the temple; so he chose out some of his soldiers, and gave them order to fight against those guards that were in the citadel, until he should have purified the temple. When therefore he had carefully purged it, and had brought in new vessels, the candlestick, the table [of shew-bread], and the altar [of incense], which were made of gold, he hung up the veils at the gates, and added doors to them. He also took down the altar [of burnt-offering], and built a new one of stones that he gathered together, and not of such as were hewn with iron tools. So on the five and twentieth day of the month Casleu, which the Macedonians call Apeliens, they lighted the lamps that were on the candlestick, and offered incense upon the altar [of incense], and laid the loaves upon the table [of shew-bread], and offered burnt-offerings upon the new altar [of burnt-offering]. Now it so fell out, that these things were done on the very same day on which their Divine worship had fallen off, and was reduced to a profane and common use, after three years' time; for so it was, that the temple was made desolate by Antiochus, and so continued for three years. This desolation happened to the temple in the hundred forty and fifth year, on the twenty-fifth day of the month Apeliens, and on the hundred fifty and third olympiad: but it was dedicated anew, on the same day, the twenty-fifth of the month Apeliens, on the hundred and forty-eighth year, and on the hundred and fifty-fourth olympiad. And this desolation came to pass according to the prophecy of Daniel, which was given four hundred and eight years before; for he declared that the Macedonians would dissolve that worship [for some time].

7. Now Judas celebrated the festival of the restoration of the sacrifices of the temple for eight days, and omitted no sort of pleasures thereon; but he feasted them upon very rich and splendid sacrifices; and he honored God, and delighted them by hymns and psalms. Nay, they were so very glad at the revival of their customs, when, after a long time of intermission, they unexpectedly had regained the freedom of their worship, that they made it a law for their posterity, that they should keep a festival, on account of the restoration of their temple worship, for eight days. And from that time to this we celebrate this festival, and call it Lights. I suppose the reason was, because this liberty beyond our hopes appeared to us; and that thence was the name given to that festival. Judas also rebuilt the walls round about the city, and reared towers of great height against the incursions of enemies, and set guards therein. He also fortified the city Bethsura, that it might serve as a citadel against any distresses that might come from our enemies. "

Josephus confirms above the understanding of the Jews of his time, who knew that Daniel had predicted the events of 167 BC, by Antiochus Epiphanes.
Josephus confirms it as a historical fact.


John 10:22 is a reference to the celebration of Hanukkah each year by the Jews of Jesus time.

The Book of Matthew was addressed mainly to a Jewish audience. Jesus was telling the Jews of His time that something similar to 167 BC would happen during 70 AD. Not only did Antiochus desecrate the temple, but he also attacked the city killing thousands of Jews and stopped the temple sacrifices. The temple sacrifices would also stop in 70 AD, due to the destruction of the temple. Based on John 10:22, the Jews were well aware of this historical fulfillment of Daniel’s prophecy. Luke’s Gospel was written to more of a Gentile audience, so he spelled it out for them.

Matthew 24:15-16 and Luke 21:20-21 are clearly parallel accounts, because we have the exact same warning to flee from Judea to the mountains in the second verse of each Gospel.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
'
 
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BABerean2

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No. the Israelites are still scattered, and the 12 tribes will be regathered when the Messiah returns, but not before then.

Based on the two passages below, nobody will come to salvation at His Second Coming, when He returns "in flaming fire" taking vengeance on those who do not know Him.

Mat 25:1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
Mat 25:2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
Mat 25:3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
Mat 25:4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
Mat 25:5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
Mat 25:6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
Mat 25:7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
Mat 25:8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
Mat 25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
Mat 25:12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
Mat 25:13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

The modern Church has done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with Orthodox Jews.
The "suffering servant" of Isaiah chapter 53, and the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and the timeline of Daniel 9 prove that the baby born in a manger is the Messiah promised in the Hebrew scriptures.

How many times have we seen this three-part Gospel message on Christian television?
Why not?

.
 
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nolidad

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Ask any translator why he/she could not see the reality of it! !

Ask any one who has any knowledge of middle east history and see if they agree that the gospel by 60A.D. had gone to the far east, sub-saharan africa, northen Europe and the new world!
Ask tehm if any society anywhere had any type of deep ocean going vessels. Why are there no records anywhere (unless you accpet Joseph Smiths Book of MOrmon) that shows the new world had an exposure to the gospel, or the far eat or sub sharan Africa! Why not one record showing this? After all If aztecs were in teh Roman Empire and heard the gospel and went back to south and central America- would they keep it secret???? How about Nordics or Kelts or chinese or mongols or even Magogites?
 
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nolidad

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Josephus confirms above the understanding of the Jews of his time, who knew that Daniel had predicted the events of 167 BC, by Antiochus Epiphanes.
Josephus confirms it as a historical fact.

I only pull this partto reply for this is the most important.

Now Josephus declares it a historic fact occurring approx. 167 B.C.

Matt. 24:
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Let me ask you this:

Didn't God the Son know this was history? Was He confused that day?

So you believe that the events surrounding Antiochus Ephiphenes sacrificing a pig on the altar and going kind of crazy on Israel is the worst tribulation that world has ever seen or will ever see?
 
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jgr

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Ask any one who has any knowledge of middle east history and see if they agree that the gospel by 60A.D. had gone to the far east, sub-saharan africa, northen Europe and the new world!
Ask tehm if any society anywhere had any type of deep ocean going vessels. Why are there no records anywhere (unless you accpet Joseph Smiths Book of MOrmon) that shows the new world had an exposure to the gospel, or the far eat or sub sharan Africa! Why not one record showing this? After all If aztecs were in teh Roman Empire and heard the gospel and went back to south and central America- would they keep it secret???? How about Nordics or Kelts or chinese or mongols or even Magogites?

Why not ask the translators those questions?
 
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BABerean2

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21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Let me ask you this:

Didn't God the Son know this was history? Was He confused that day?

So you believe that the events surrounding Antiochus Ephiphenes sacrificing a pig on the altar and going kind of crazy on Israel is the worst tribulation that world has ever seen or will ever see?

You did not find Matthew 24:21 in my post, so your accusation is without substance.

There is a time period in Luke's Gospel, which is not found in Matthew's Gospel.
It is "the times of the Gentiles", which began in Acts 28:28, and is found at the end of Luke 21:24. It is also found in Romans 11.


Based on Matthew 10:5-7, and Romans 1:16, and Galatians 1:14-18, the Gospel was taken "first" to the Jews for a period of about 7 years before Paul took the Gospel to the Gentiles. The "times of the Gentiles" then followed this period of about 7 years.


We find the future Second Coming of Christ in Luke 21:25-28, which occurs when the "times of the Gentiles" comes to "fullness".


This times of the Gentiles has seen the greatest persecution of believers in the history of the world. It is occurring now in China and other nations. I believe it will get much worse just before the return of Christ.

It is my belief that Matthew 24:21 is referring to "the times of the Gentiles" in Luke's Gospel. It you think otherwise, feel free to do so.

However, you cannot use Matthew 24:21 to overturn the clear timeline found in Luke's Gospel.

.
 
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