Sola Fide (Faith Alone) Sets the Record Straight

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Our expressed awe of God and God's awesomeness commingled, while we acknowledge that we love God because He first loved us. The sense of cause-effect, however, is not mechanical to the person who trusts Jesus. We see grace as the cause of blessed communion. From Psalm 110:3 (NKJV): Your people shall be volunteers in the day of Your power.
 
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Our expressed awe of God and God's awesomeness commingled, while we acknowledge that we love God because He first loved us. The sense of cause-effect, however, is not mechanical to the person who trusts Jesus. We see grace as the cause of blessed communion. From Psalm 110:3 (NKJV): Your people shall be volunteers in the day of Your power.

Amen!!!!
 
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Concord1968

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Just came across this today:

"The gospel is the message which God would have preached world-wide, declaring to every individual that since no man can be made righteous through the law, but must rather become more unrighteous, God sent his own beloved Son to shed his blood and die for our sins, from which we could not be released by our own effort."

- Martin Luther
 
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Concord1968

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Found another:

"A capuchin says: wear a grey coat and a hood, a rope round thy body, and sandals on thy feet. A cordelier says: put on a black hood; an ordinary papist says: do this or that work, hear mass, pray, fast, give alms, &c. But a true Christian says: I am justified and saved only by faith in Christ, without any works or merits of my own; compare these together, and judge which is the true righteousness."

- Martin Luther
 
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Erik Nelson

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John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. :oldthumbsup:
"if you don't live it,
you don't believe it"
 
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bcbsr

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They believe that if they sin, they do not lose their salvation. So what of holy living then? It is non-existent. If one believes they can sin and still be saved, then there is no incentive to actually live holy.
A couple things about that statement of yours. First - have you ever committed a sin? None of this "grevious" sin idea whereby you've attempted to side step the issue. Have you ever as an allegedly "saved" Christian committed a sin? If so, then by your own soteriology you have lost your salvation. Now if you were to die right after are while committed a sin you're saying that you would go to hell seeing as you have lost your salvation. Furthermore I would suggest that one is not always aware of when then sin. We are to love God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength. Even if we do so to a 99% level we still fall short. Moreover most of the commands in the NT Epistles to Christians (such as the list in Romans 12) are about attitude. There's no way one can measure just how perfectly they have lived up to issues of attitude, and so under your soteriology they (including yourself) may have already lost their salvation and not have known it.

And I haven't even pointed out the obvious fact that one is trust in their own performance to qualify them to be saved rather than trusting in Christ to save them.

Secondly, as I stated the following observation many times concerning salvation-by-works Christians, which you yourself by your own statement above affirm, salvation-by-works Christians can't imagine doing what is right unless they are threatened with eternal damnation if they fail.

Let me again introduce you to the alternative concept the we how have been born of God have. Namely we do the right thing simply because that's our nature. We do what is right because it's the right thing to do. Imagine that! Or can you?
 
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bcbsr

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[QUOTE="Jason0047, post: 74009853, member: 356113" They falsely think all sin is the same, and all sin condemns, but this is not the case. The "sin not unto death" is a believer confessing sin to the Lord that they are striving to overcome; [/QUOTE]
First of all John says, "There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this." 1John 5:16 "a sin" is singular as is "this" (yes in the Greek). So what one sin would one commit such that John doesn't even recommend praying for the person? As I see it, it's got to be the sin of apostasy, which we know from 1John 2:19 can only be committed by those who are brothers in namely only.

You, on the other hand, have the Catholic notion parsing between artificial categories of "mortal sins" and "venial sins". While you rant against others whom you claim say that sinning doesn't change a person's salvation status, you yourself are claiming the same thing with regards to, shall we call them, "venial sins". Apparently you think you can be sinning some categories of sin all the time and yet get a pass, not lose their salvation.
 
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bcbsr

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How many sins per a specific time frame does it take for a believer to commit before a believer can lose their salvation?
And how many non-grevious sins, as you call them, can a "believer" commit before he loses his salvation according to your soteriology?
 
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bcbsr

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What’s all the talk of grievious sin vs regular sin? I always thought sin was just sin in Gods eyes. Everything except blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. That’s the reason I felt no one is ever able to put them self above another. Am I wrong?
Jason's been trying to push the idea, just like the Catholics parse between what they called "mortal sins" versus "venial sins" (minor sins). And then they appear to arbitrarily define sins in these two categories, like in Catholicism using a condom is a mortal sin, so you're going straight to hell for that. Jason does the same kind of thing by ranting that those who believe in salvation by faith in Christ alone claim that committing a sin doesn't cause a person to lose salvation, which is allegedly contrary to his position. But in fact fudges his position by admitting that his view is that sinning doesn't cause a person to lose salvation as long as it's his category of non-grevious sins. And no doubt whatever sins he characteristically commits he'll just classify as a non-grevious sin.

What I've been challenging him with is with the question as to why is it that non-grevious sins (however he defines those) don't cause a person to lose salvation according to his soteriology, but "grevious" sins do. Like you say, if it's sin, it's sin.
 
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bcbsr

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Because of 1 John 5:16-17 >>>>>
"If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask, and God will give him life—to those who commit sins that do not lead to death. There is sin that leads to death; I do not say that one should pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that does not lead to death."
I've done a detailed technical study on 1John and found that when john uses the Present tense in Greek he's referring to lifestyle. But when he uses Aorist tense he's referring simply to a point in time event.

For example in 1John 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin (Aorist). And if anyone sins (Aorist), we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. There he's talking about events in which one commits sin, as opposed to referring to the person's lifestyle.

1John 5:18 We know that whoever is born of God does not sin (Present tense) Which is consistent with 1John 3:9 indicating that those born of God don't have a sinful lifestyle.

The thing is 1John 5:16:17 "If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin" It's using the Present tense, indicating lifestyle and as such that brother is one in name only and had not been born of God. Thus this brother in name is dead in sin. He doesn't have the Son and as such according to 1John 5:11,12 he doesn't have life. An example of this would be the wicked man of 1Cor 5. The prayer is for a nominal Christian.

As for the phrase "There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this." "A sin" and "this" is singular. He's not talking about a category of sins, he's talking about one particular sins, namely apostasy, like the situation in 1John 2:19 "They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us." Those who commit apostasy were never REALLY in the faith to begin with. And as you can see from Heb 6:4 it's impossible to get such people to repent and so why bother to pray for them.
 
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Loversofjesus_2018

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Jason's been trying to push the idea, just like the Catholics parse between what they called "mortal sins" versus "venial sins" (minor sins). And then they appear to arbitrarily define sins in these two categories, like in Catholicism using a condom is a mortal sin, so you're going straight to hell for that. Jason does the same kind of thing by ranting that those who believe in salvation by faith in Christ alone claim that committing a sin doesn't cause a person to lose salvation, which is allegedly contrary to his position. But in fact fudges his position by admitting that his view is that sinning doesn't cause a person to lose salvation as long as it's his category of non-grevious sins. And no doubt whatever sins he characteristically commits he'll just classify as a non-grevious sin.

What I've been challenging him with is with the question as to why is it that non-grevious sins (however he defines those) don't cause a person to lose salvation according to his soteriology, but "grevious" sins do. Like you say, if it's sin, it's sin.
I’m sorry I stopped at using a condom is a mortal sin and your going to hell for that.... wow I never knew that Catholics thought that. The more I learn the more ridiculous things get. It’s getting really really confusing for me. How could they come to that conclusion?
 
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Loversofjesus_2018

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Jason's been trying to push the idea, just like the Catholics parse between what they called "mortal sins" versus "venial sins" (minor sins). And then they appear to arbitrarily define sins in these two categories, like in Catholicism using a condom is a mortal sin, so you're going straight to hell for that. Jason does the same kind of thing by ranting that those who believe in salvation by faith in Christ alone claim that committing a sin doesn't cause a person to lose salvation, which is allegedly contrary to his position. But in fact fudges his position by admitting that his view is that sinning doesn't cause a person to lose salvation as long as it's his category of non-grevious sins. And no doubt whatever sins he characteristically commits he'll just classify as a non-grevious sin.

What I've been challenging him with is with the question as to why is it that non-grevious sins (however he defines those) don't cause a person to lose salvation according to his soteriology, but "grevious" sins do. Like you say, if it's sin, it's sin.
Yeah I always thought sin was sin and were all in the same boat. I thought Paul admitted he was struggling with sin but someone on the forum I believe told me I had it out of context lol
 
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bcbsr

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Yeah I always thought sin was sin and were all in the same boat. I thought Paul admitted he was struggling with sin but someone on the forum I believe told me I had it out of context lol
They're talking about Romans 7. Jason and some others of his kind can't handle the fact that Paul struggled with sin as a Christian and so they propose Paul's experience in Romans 7 was as a non-Christians.

Romans 7 is actually talking about Paul's Christian experience in struggling with sin. Note for example the similar rhetoric between Rom 7 and Gal 5

Gal 5:16,17 "So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want."
(Obviously talking about the Christian experience)

Rom 7:15 "I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do." Same thing
 
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And how many non-grevious sins, as you call them, can a "believer" commit before he loses his salvation according to your soteriology?

It only takes one grievous sin to lose salvation. For what do you think happened with Adam and Eve?
What do you think happened with Ananias and Sapphira? What do you think happens to the widow who turns aside after Satan in 1 Timothy 5?
 
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Grip Docility

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It only takes one grievous sin to lose salvation. For what do you think happened with Adam and Eve?
What do you think happened with Ananias and Sapphira? What do you think happens to the widow who turns aside after Satan in 1 Timothy 5?

“there is A sin which leads to death.”

John 5:16 ; Matthew 12:31 ; Luke 12:10 ; Mark 3:28-30 ; Hebrews 10:29 ; Hebrews 10:26 ; Hebrews 6:4 ; 1 John 1:9 ; Acts Of the Apostles 7:51 ; Galatians 5:4
 
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Jason's been trying to push the idea, just like the Catholics parse between what they called "mortal sins" versus "venial sins" (minor sins). And then they appear to arbitrarily define sins in these two categories, like in Catholicism using a condom is a mortal sin, so you're going straight to hell for that. Jason does the same kind of thing by ranting that those who believe in salvation by faith in Christ alone claim that committing a sin doesn't cause a person to lose salvation, which is allegedly contrary to his position. But in fact fudges his position by admitting that his view is that sinning doesn't cause a person to lose salvation as long as it's his category of non-grevious sins. And no doubt whatever sins he characteristically commits he'll just classify as a non-grevious sin.

What I've been challenging him with is with the question as to why is it that non-grevious sins (however he defines those) don't cause a person to lose salvation according to his soteriology, but "grevious" sins do. Like you say, if it's sin, it's sin.

No. The Bible actually teaches not all sin is the same, dear sir, and this would not be the Catholic church. I am the farthest thing from being a Catholic. I never was Catholic, and I disagree with their extra biblical practices big time. So the whole guilt by association thing is simply not true.

Anyways, the Bible teaches that grievous sin can separate us from God from Matthew to Revelation (Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:37) (Matthew 25:31-46) (Luke 9:62) (1 John 3:15) (Galatians 5:19-21) (Revelation 21:8).

The Bible teaches that obedience to certain commands of God is tied to eternal life from Matthew to Revelation (See Matthew 19:17-19) (Luke 10:25-28) (1 John 1:7) (1 John 3:23) (Hebrews 5:9) (Revelation 22:14).

Grievous sin is any sin like lying, lusting, hating, murder, theft, idolatry, etc. (Note: The words "grievous sin" is taken from Genesis 18:20).

Minor infractions or faults of character is another name for a "sin not unto death" (i.e. not unto death = not unto spiritual death or the second death) (Note: While the "sin not unto death" mentioned in 1 John 5:16 is in context to confessed sin in John's epistle (See: 1 John 1:9), it can be extended loosely to refer to the kind of sins that do not lead to spiritual death by it's very name).

"Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults."
(Psalms 19:12).​

Examples of Sins That Do Not Lead Unto Spiritual Death:

#1. 1 John 5:16-17 mentions the "sin not unto death."
In context to 1 John 5: This would be talking about confessed grievous sin that one is striving to overcome with the Lord's help (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9) (Romans 13:14). In 1 John 5, the brethren are praying for this believer to have victory (life) over their sin as this believer confesses their sin.

#2. Psalms 19:12 says, "Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults." I believe these would be faults of character or minor errors that a person might make with people. Example: A person may not be a great listener, and they do not allow others to speak like they should. By not listening to others may come off a little like they do not care (even though they care in their own way or a different way). Paul wanted to go to Jerusalem. The Spirit warned Paul not to go. He was still determined to go because he loved His fellow Jews and wanted them to know the love of Jesus. The Spirit told the brethren that Paul will be imprisoned by his going to Jerusalem. The brethren warned Paul not to go. They were in tears and loved him and begged him not to go. But Paul did not listen. He would not hear them. He did not want to hear it. Fault of character. Hidden fault. Minor error of his character. It is not something that condemned him (See Acts of the Apostles 21, and read this article here by Ray Stedman; Note: There is even a better write up than this one by Bible commentator James Boice here; Please keep in mind I do not share their views on Soteriology, though; I merely agree with their view on what happened with Paul in Acts of the Apostles 21).

#3. The Command to Be Baptized.
Paul says Christ sent him not to baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17). If it was essential to salvation, then why would Paul say something like this? In 1 Peter 3:21: Peter says baptism is not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh. If you were to turn to 2 Corinthians 7:1, you would see that it uses similar wording ("filthiness of the flesh") that is clearly in reference to sin. So Peter is saying that baptism is not for the putting away of "sin" [i.e. filth of the flesh]. In other words, baptism is not a command that if disobeyed, leads to spiritual death.

#4. Other Commands in the New Testament that do not seem like a major violation of loving God and loving your neighbor that have no death penalties attached to them. One example would be the command to Rejoice when men persecute you or falsely accuse you of evil in Matthew 5:11-12.

Real world examples: Going 5 miles per hour over the speed limit in area that is not life threatening to others. Not taking out the trash yesterday when it was a little stinky. These minor transgressions would obviously not send a Christian to hell.

But we as Christians strive to obey and do good in all things in the Lord. We strive to keep His commandments. For it is written,

"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.' (1 John 5:3).​


Side Note:

Please understand that it is not possible for a person to obey God's commands without them first being saved by Jesus Christ and His grace (i.e. by seeking forgiveness of their sin with Him, and believing in His death, and resurrection on their behalf). For Christians are initially and ultimately saved by Jesus Christ.
 
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Grip Docility

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No. The Bible actually teaches not all sin is the same, dear sir, and this would not be the Catholic church. I am the farthest thing from being a Catholic. I never was Catholic, and I disagree with their extra biblical practices big time. So the whole guilt by association thing is simply not true.

Anyways, the Bible teaches that grievous sin can separate us from God from Matthew to Revelation (Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:37) (Matthew 25:31-46) (Luke 9:62) (1 John 3:15) (Galatians 5:19-21) (Revelation 21:8).

The Bible teaches that obedience to certain commands of God is tied to eternal life from Matthew to Revelation (See Matthew 19:17-19) (Luke 10:25-28) (1 John 1:7) (1 John 3:23) (Hebrews 5:9) (Revelation 22:14).

Grievous sin is any sin like lying, lusting, hating, murder, theft, idolatry, etc. (Note: The words "grievous sin" is taken from Genesis 18:20.

Minor infractions or faults of character is another name for a "sin not unto death" (i.e. not unto death = not unto spiritual death or the second death) (Note: While the "sin not unto death" mentioned in 1 John 5:16 is in context to confessed sin in John's epistle (See: 1 John 1:9), it can be extended loosely to refer to the kind of sins that do not lead to spiritual death by it's very name).

"Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults."
(Psalms 19:12).​

Examples of Sins That Do Not Lead Unto Spiritual Death:

#1. 1 John 5:16-17 mentions the "sin not unto death."
In context to 1 John 5: This would be talking about confessed grievous sin that one is striving to overcome with the Lord's help (1 John 2:1) (1 John 1:9) (Romans 13:14). In 1 John 5, the brethren are praying for this believer to have victory (life) over their sin as this believer confesses their sin.

#2. Psalms 19:12 says, "Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults." I believe these would be faults of character or minor errors that a person might make with people. Example: A person may not be a great listener, and they do not allow others to speak like they should. By not listening to others may come off a little like they do not care (even though they care in their own way or a different way). Paul wanted to go to Jerusalem. The Spirit warned Paul not to go. He was still determined to go because he loved His fellow Jews and wanted them to know the love of Jesus. The Spirit told the brethren that Paul will be imprisoned by his going to Jerusalem. The brethren warned Paul not to go. They were in tears and loved him and begged him not to go. But Paul did not listen. He would not hear them. He did not want to hear it. Fault of character. Hidden fault. Minor error of his character. It is not something that condemned him (See Acts of the Apostles 21, and read this article here by Ray Stedman; Note: There is even a better write up than this one by Bible commentator James Boice here; Please keep in mind I do not share their views on Soteriology, though; I merely agree with their view on what happened with Paul in Acts of the Apostles 21).

#3. The Command to Be Baptized.
Paul says Christ sent him not to baptize but to preach the gospel (1 Corinthians 1:17). If it was essential to salvation, then why would Paul say something like this? In 1 Peter 3:21: Peter says baptism is not for the putting away of the filth of the flesh. If you were to turn to 2 Corinthians 7:1, you would see that it uses similar wording ("filthiness of the flesh") that is clearly in reference to sin. So Peter is saying that baptism is not for the putting away of "sin" [i.e. filth of the flesh]. In other words, baptism is not a command that if disobeyed, leads to spiritual death.

#4. Other Commands in the New Testament that do not seem like a major violation of loving God and loving your neighbor that have no death penalties attached to them. One example would be the command to Rejoice when men persecute you or falsely accuse you of evil in Matthew 5:11-12.

Real world examples: Going 5 miles per hour over the speed limit in area that is not life threatening to others. Not taking out the trash yesterday when it was a little stinky. These minor transgressions would obviously not send a Christian to hell.

But we as Christians strive to obey and do good in all things in the Lord. We strive to keep His commandments. For it is written,

"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.' (1 John 5:3).​


Side Note:

Please understand that it is not possible for a person to obey God's commands without them first being saved by Jesus Christ and His grace (i.e. by seeking forgiveness of their sin with Him, and believing in His death, and resurrection on their behalf). For Christians are initially and ultimately saved by Jesus Christ.

Galatians 5:4 is the key to all of this “confusion”.

Law requires obedience. Jesus specifies we are evil and only God is Good.

Our obedience is to “Believe in the ONE His Father Sent.”

It is elementary. All else is “confusion”.

1 Corinthians 14:33 ; 2 Corinthians 11:14
 
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To all:

Galatians 5:2 is the context to Galatians 5:4.
It is referring to "Circumcision Salvationism." Also see Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24. In other words, Paul was not speaking against all Law in general, but he was speaking against those who thought they had to first be circumcised in order to be initially saved (Instead of initially being saved by faith in Jesus Christ). Paul is not taking against the necessity of works of faith that follow as a part of the Sanctification Process. In fact, Paul says in Galatians 5:16 that we are to walk after the Spirit and we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh (Which is Sanctification). However, Paul says to those who do the works of the flesh (such as murder, adultery, idolatry, hate, etc.) will not inherit the Kingdom of God (i.e. they will not be saved). So yeah, you cannot commit grievous sin and still be saved. Salvation does not work like that. For God would have to agree with a person's sinful thinking like this in order for their "sin and still be saved" plan of salvation to work. It's insanity. God is holy and righteous and He cannot agree with sin or a person's thinking that they can willfully commit serious sin (that He condemns within His own Word).
 
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Whether a man or an angel places the burden on the flesh, before, during or after Salvation... the lie remains a lie.

It is our very Souls depths that must respond to Jesus. That single response opens the door for Christ to come in and dwell within us!

If our Hearts faith turns away from Jesus, as our Savior... during the Father’s Drawing us, through the Son’s Holy Spirit’s Indwelling Of our Soul’s depths (Heart)... we are resisting His Holy Spirit!

We must relinquish effort and reliance on our flesh! We mush “surrender”! We must be drawn from faith to Faith!

Romans 1:17 God's righteousness is being revealed in the gospel, from faithfulness for faith, as it is written, The righteous person will live by faith.
 
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It only takes one grievous sin to lose salvation. For what do you think happened with Adam and Eve?
What do you think happened with Ananias and Sapphira? What do you think happens to the widow who turns aside after Satan in 1 Timothy 5?
Didn't ask that. Again my question was how man non-grevious sins does it take to lose salvation?
 
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