Are Pro-Lifers Trying to Lose?

Dale said:

Despite all the lawyer shows on TV, you're telling me that the public can't grasp legal argument?

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All those lawyer shows are fake, though, and whatever anyone thinks he's learned from them is overwhelmingly likely to be wrong.

Mel333 said:

You're current constitution gives you the right to choose whether or not to bear a child.
Which is the oldest law there is known to man. Free-will.

Again, you should do what is morally right (keep the baby) but you cannot force a woman to have a child.

To make abortion illegal would mean you'd have to criminalise it and there would be young women in jail with the death penalty. You also will need to change the definition of murder which means malice and miscarriages would need to be proven.

and yes, a man should have a right too but then the child is in the woman so legally, it's up to her and if she had security from a male or family would most likely keep it.

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But let's make sure we understand: In one way or another, all that is only going to apply to poor women.

thecolorsblend said:

Oh well.

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And that "oh, well" is only going to apply to poor women.

Because rich women are going to play around as much as they want, but they're not going to suffer any consequences for it.

In this fallen world, consequences are for the poor.

RDKirk said:

And that "oh, well" is only going to apply to poor women.

Because rich women are going to play around as much as they want, but they're not going to suffer any consequences for it.

In this fallen world, consequences are for the poor.

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It’s not my job to save the world. What I care about is saving innocent lives. Punishing the guilty is not my responsibility.

thecolorsblend said:

It’s not my job to save the world. What I care about is saving innocent lives. Punishing the guilty is not my responsibility.

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"Saving innocent lives" is not the responsibility of the Body of Christ either. What the Body of Christ is supposed to be care about is this:

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

Everything else is "scope creep." It was never the responsibility of the Body of Christ to fix the Roman empire.

If we would follow His instructions instead of doing what seems right in our own eyes, all else would fall into place as the Lord intends it should before He returns.

Nothing is important except His mission. Everything else is a distraction.

RDKirk said:

"Saving innocent lives" is not the responsibility of the Body of Christ either. What the Body of Christ is supposed to be care about is this:

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you.

Everything else is "scope creep." It was never the responsibility of the Body of Christ to fix the Roman empire.

If we would follow His instructions instead of doing what seems right in our own eyes, all else would fall into place as the Lord intends it should before He returns.

Nothing is important except His mission. Everything else is a distraction.

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Wow, that’s really eloquent.

Question: Why aren’t you out there making disciples of all the nations rather than getting distracted here on CF?

thecolorsblend said:

Wow, that’s really eloquent.

Question: Why aren’t you out there making disciples of all the nations rather than getting distracted here on CF?

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I'm in a congregation that actively does that, and I vigorously do my part in the congregation to support it.

To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines.

redleghunter said:

The states putting forth the heartbeat laws are reasoning both legally and scientifically. It is biological fact we are human beings at conception.

The 14th Amendment says no person is to be deprived of life, liberty or the pursuit of happiness. Alabama by plebiscite passed a state constitutional amendment deeming unborn life at any stage is a person. They then passed another state constitutional amendment outlawing all abortions except in the cases of endangering the woman’s life.

These are all based on settled science and laws protecting the life and liberty of all, not just US citizens.

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Alabama passed a law that will be ruled unconstitutional.

redleghunter said:

Alabama has criminalized abortion performed except for the life of the pregnant woman. The focus is on abortion providers.

There’s no Constitutional right to choice in the US Constitution. Especially when another life is at stake.

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Yes there is. What do you think the word "liberty" means? Did you ever think the right to life is for moms, not unborn babies?

Dale said:

The Justices essentially declared the Texas law to be void because it was old fashioned, outdated, antiquated. It hadn't been revised in almost a hundred years. The Justices essentially declared the Georgia abortion law to be void because it was too complicated and too bureaucratic.

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Have you read the decision? That wasn't the argument.

The argument was that under our system, we have a limited government. Laws can only be made when there's a legitimate governmental purpose. There's no agreement on when someone is fully human, not in philosophy, religion, or the legal tradition. (The decision has a brief review.) Governments shouldn't base laws on a specific controversial philosophical position. They used the term "privacy." Today, that term makes people think of Facebook accumulating information on them. But that's not what they meant. They meant that people should be able to do things without having to worry about the law, except when there is justification for a law.

However governments can regulate medical procedures. They noted that the abortion laws were mostly from the late 19th Cent. At that time, abortions where dangerous. This provided a legitimate medical reason. However by the time of the case, this was no longer true. Hence it was no longer justified to prohibit abortion.

Nothing has changed that would invalidate that argument. There is still no philosophical agreement. Despite loud shouting in CF, 60% of our population believes abortion should be legal in the first trimester. Abortion is safer now than at the time of Roe v Wade. Maternity is actually more dangerous. (One possibility is better reporting, but no one seems entirely sure what's going on.)

Anti-abortion activists want the Supreme Court to allow laws made on the basis of religious convictions not shared by a majority of the population. I think even if they were shared by a majority they shouldn't be the basis for laws, but surely a minority shouldn't be able to pass laws based on its views.

RDKirk said:

I'm in a congregation that actively does that

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No you’re not because right now you’re posting stuff on CF. By your own admission, everything that isn’t making disciples of all the nations (which presumably includes posting stuff on CF) is a distraction.

Isn’t it just about time for you to bail on this thread and go back to making disciples?

thecolorsblend said:

No you’re not because right now you’re posting stuff on CF. By your own admission, everything that isn’t making disciples of all the nations (which presumably includes posting stuff on CF) is a distraction.

Isn’t it just about time for you to bail on this thread and go back to making disciples?

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No, because I'm also exhorting people here--such as you--to also get about the mission, and that is supporting the mission.

ChristianForCats said:

Alabama passed a law that will be ruled unconstitutional.

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Remains to be seen.

ChristianForCats said:

Yes there is. What do you think the word "liberty" means? Did you ever think the right to life is for moms, not unborn babies?

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Right to one’s own life comes before someone’s liberty.

redleghunter said:

Remains to be seen.

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I was correcting someone who said it is a constitutional amendment.

redleghunter said:

Right to one’s own life comes before someone’s liberty.

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The right to one's life in the Constitution is only given for American citizens. Unborn babies don't count as American citizens. So the right to liberty comes first in this case.

ChristianForCats said:

The right to one's life in the Constitution is only given for American citizens. Unborn babies don't count as American citizens. So the right to liberty comes first in this case.

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Not correct as illegal and legal residents are afforded the protection of life.

redleghunter said:

Not correct as illegal and legal residents are afforded the protection of life.

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Are embryos and fetuses counted in the U.S. Census? I doubt it. An illegal immigrant can be counted, but not all pregnant girls and women know they are carrying embryos so they cannot be counted for the right to life. It is not hard to understand that significant difference.

RDKirk said:

No, because I'm also exhorting people here--such as you--to also get about the mission, and that is supporting the mission.

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I'm calling for the end of abortion so that more people will be born who will make disciples of all the nations.

You're taking time away from making disciples of all the nations to tell others to go make disciples of all the nations.

idk, bro, sounds like you could be allowing yourself to get distracted.