LDS LDS The Terrestrial Kingdom

Christian Apologist said:

The Book of Mormon teaches Ex Nihilo ​

Jacob 4:9 For behold, by the power of his a word man came upon the face of the earth, which earth was created by the power of his word. Wherefore, if God being able to speak and the world was, and to speak and man was created, O then, why not able to command the dearth, or the workmanship of his hands upon the face of it, according to his will and pleasure?

Hebrews 11

3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.



Romans 4:

17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.



Psalm 33

6 By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

9 For he spake, and it was done; he commanded, and it stood fast.

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You may think that means out of nothing, but I disagree. God commanded the elements and they obeyed Him. Jesus also commanded the storm to abate and it was done.

He is the way said:

You may think that means out of nothing, but I disagree. God commanded the elements and they obeyed Him. Jesus also commanded the storm to abate and it was done.

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Christian Apologist said:

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Cherry picking the scriptures will not be helpful to you, and neither will your misunderstanding of the Bible.

He is the way said:

So for instance if someone said that God formed the universe instead of creating it out of nothing, they would be asked to leave?
(Old Testament | Proverbs 26:10)

10 The great God that formed all things both rewardeth the fool, and rewardeth transgressors.

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We believe God created from nothing. You have been shown those verses. There has never been a believer that has believed otherwise for they had no false angel telling them otherwise. We have former Mormons who gave up that foolish idea. No one that I know of, in any of our churches, has ever clung tp that idea for it is not biblical---it is from JS. The very early "fathers" believed God formed from matter---they later gave up that idea. Even modern day scientists say that the world came into exitance from nothing. It used to be thought that it just always existed---they do not believe that anymore.

Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God. — Psalm 90:2
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. — Genesis 1:1
By the word of the Lord were the heavens made, their starry host by the breath of his mouth. — Psalm 33:6
For this is what the Lord says— he who created the heavens, he is God;
he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it;
he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited—
he says:“I am the Lord,and there is no other.” — Isaiah 45:18
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

He is the way said:

Cherry picking the scriptures will not be helpful to you, and neither will your misunderstanding of the Bible.

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He is the way said:

You may think that means out of nothing, but I disagree. God commanded the elements and they obeyed Him. Jesus also commanded the storm to abate and it was done.

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Where did the elements come from?
Of course, He commanded the storm and it obeyed---He created everything about that storm and the physics and laws that they follow!

mmksparbud said:

Where did the elements come from?
Of course, He commanded the storm and it obeyed---He created everything about that storm and the physics and laws that they follow!

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God did not create the universe out of nothing, God has always existed and He is not nothing:

(New Testament | John 1:1 - 2)

1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.

He is the way said:

God did not create the universe out of nothing, God has always existed and He is not nothing:

(New Testament | John 1:1 - 2)

1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.

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Nobody said God is nothing!

Ps 90:2
Before the mountains were born or you brought forth the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God.
Gen 1:1
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Ps 33:6
By the word of the Lord were the heavens made, their starry host by the breath of his mouth.
Is 45:18
For this is what the Lord says— he who created the heavens, he is God;
he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it;
he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited—
Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
Psa 89:11 The heavens are thine, the earth also is thine: as for the world and the fulness thereof, thou hast founded them.
Psa 89:12 The north and the south thou hast created them: Tabor and Hermon shall rejoice in thy name.
Psa 148:2 Praise ye him, all his angels: praise ye him, all his hosts.
Psa 148:3 Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light.
Psa 148:4 Praise him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens.
Psa 148:5 Let them praise the name of the LORD: for he commanded, and they were created.
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Neh 9:6 Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee.
Rev 4:11 Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

"Science is now coming to the conclusion that all things are actually created out of the invisible, which they call "nothing." In an article in Scientific American titled "The Inflationary Universe," the following statement was written:
From a historical point of view probably the most revolutionary aspect of the inflationary model is the notion that all matter and energy in the observable universe may have emerged from almost nothing.
The inflationary model of the universe provides a possible mechanism by which the observed universe could have evolved from an infinitesimal region. It is then tempting to go one step further and speculate that the entire universe evolved from literally nothing.
The following comment was found in the New Scientist in an article by Harold Pathoff, titled "Everything for Nothing:"
"And now to the biggest question of all, where did the Universe come from? Or, in modern terminology, what started the big bang? Could quantum fluctuations of empty space have something to do with this as well? Edward Tyron of the City University of New York thought so in 1973 when he proposed that our Universe may have originated as a fluctuation of the vacuum on a large scale, as "simply one of those things which happen from time to time." This idea was later refined and updated within the context of inflationary cosmology by Alexander Vilenkin of Tufts University, who proposed that the universe is created by quantum tunneling from literally nothing into the something we call the Universe.
Edward Tyron, a professor of physics, wrote the following in New Scientist volume 101:
In 1973, I proposed that our Universe had been created spontaneously from nothing (ex nihilo), as a result of established principles of physics. This proposal variously struck people as preposterous, enchanting, or both.

He is the way said:

God did not create the universe out of nothing, God has always existed and He is not nothing:

(New Testament | John 1:1 - 2)

1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.

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Joseph Smith taught God is not God from Eternity while the Book of Mormon teaches he is



"God himself was

once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder

heavens. That is the great secret... …I am going to tell you how God came to be

God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will

refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. … It is the

first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and

to know...that he was once a man like us.... Here, then, is eternal life - to

know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods

yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done

before you... (“King Follett Discourse,” Journal of Discourses 6:3-4, also in

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 345-346, and History of the Church, vol.

6, 305-307,)"

Christian Apologist said:

Joseph Smith taught God is not God from Eternity while the Book of Mormon teaches he is



"God himself was

once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder

heavens. That is the great secret... …I am going to tell you how God came to be

God. We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity. I will

refute that idea, and take away the veil, so that you may see. … It is the

first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and

to know...that he was once a man like us.... Here, then, is eternal life - to

know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods

yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done

before you... (“King Follett Discourse,” Journal of Discourses 6:3-4, also in

Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 345-346, and History of the Church, vol.

6, 305-307,)"

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I agree with Joseph Smith and the Bible does also:

(New Testament | Philippians 2:5 - 6)

5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

(New Testament | Luke 13:32)

32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

(New Testament | John 16:33)

33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

(Old Testament | Genesis 3:22)

22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

So how did they, God come to know good and evil? Did they also eat of the tree?

(New Testament | Philippians 3:13 - 15)

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
15 Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

(New Testament | Romans 8:16 - 17)

16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

• Ephesians 1:5

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

• Galatians 4:5

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

• Romans 8:15

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

• Romans 8:23

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

• Romans 9:4

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;


"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name" (Jn. 1:12).

"For you [the Christians in Galatia to whom Paul is writing] are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:26).

Christian Apologist said:

• Ephesians 1:5

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

• Galatians 4:5

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

• Romans 8:15

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

• Romans 8:23

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

• Romans 9:4

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;


"But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name" (Jn. 1:12).

"For you [the Christians in Galatia to whom Paul is writing] are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus" (Gal. 3:26).

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Those are good quotes and here is another:
(New Testament | Hebrews 12:7 - 9)

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

He is the way said:

Those are good quotes and here is another:
(New Testament | Hebrews 12:7 - 9)

7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

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Christian Apologist said:

The Bible teaches Jehovah "Jesus" is the father of our spirits

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Is another name for Jehovah, Yahweh?

Peter1000 said:

Is another name for Jehovah, Yahweh?

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Christian Apologist said:

Yahweh would be more accurate than Jehovah​

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Thank you.

The first God introduced to bible readers is God/Elohim (Hebrew word for God). The basic definition of Elohim is "the supreme or highest God".

Yahweh is introduced to the bible reader in the second chapter of Genesis, after Elohim is introduced. The Lord God/Yahweh Elohim (Hebrew word for Lord God)

Why is Yahweh introduced second?

Christian Apologist said:

The Bible teaches Jehovah "Jesus" is the father of our spirits

View attachment 256005 ​

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Actually, the first chapter of Genesis introduces Elohim as the God that created our spirit bodies. You find that creation in the 1st chapter of Genesis. In the 2nd chapter of Genesis, Yahweh is introduced as the God that created our natural or flesh bodies. Both are creator Gods, but the first is Jesus's God and Father, God the Father (John 20:17).

Peter1000 said:

Thank you.

The first God introduced to bible readers is God/Elohim (Hebrew word for God). The basic definition of Elohim is "the supreme or highest God".

Yahweh is introduced to the bible reader in the second chapter of Genesis, after Elohim is introduced. The Lord God/Yahweh Elohim (Hebrew word for Lord God)

Why is Yahweh introduced second?

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The Book of Mormon is clear God The Father, Jesus and The Holy Spirit have existed eternally as God, and none are supreme until Jesus laid aside that equality when he became man .


Alma 11:

44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

Christian Apologist said:

The Book of Mormon is clear God The Father, Jesus and The Holy Spirit have existed eternally as God, and none are supreme until Jesus laid aside that equality when he became man .


Alma 11:

44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.

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You need to respond to what I said from the bible, in post #76. You totally ignored what I said and said things that did not have anything to do with what I said, in answer to your post #73.

When you do this, it means to me 1 of 2 things:
1) you cannot answer it
2) you don't want to answer it

Either way you lose the discussion unless you respond to what I have responded directly.
So give it a try. Read post #76 again and respond. Thank you.

Peter1000 said:

Thank you.

The first God introduced to bible readers is God/Elohim (Hebrew word for God). The basic definition of Elohim is "the supreme or highest God".

Yahweh is introduced to the bible reader in the second chapter of Genesis, after Elohim is introduced. The Lord God/Yahweh Elohim (Hebrew word for Lord God)

Why is Yahweh introduced second?

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You tell me the significance