Bible IS SCIENCE, exposing misnamed 'science' today

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Subduction Zone

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What is your field of study, logic? I still haven't seen you do anything, but make claims...
No, but clearly I understand the topic better than you.

Let's flesh out an error of yours. You discussed "energy" a well defined concept in physics. You made the error of using the various meanings of the word in a dictionary and then pretended that you made a point by relying on equivocation fallacies.
 
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Tone

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No, but clearly I understand the topic better than you.

Let's flesh out an error of yours. You discussed "energy" a well defined concept in physics. You made the error of using the various meanings of the word in a dictionary and then pretended that you made a point by relying on equivocation fallacies.


Finally...it's about time...yeessh...

*Now, I will take some time to respond.
 
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Tone

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No, but clearly I understand the topic better than you.

Let's flesh out an error of yours. You discussed "energy" a well defined concept in physics. You made the error of using the various meanings of the word in a dictionary and then pretended that you made a point by relying on equivocation fallacies.

Okay, what definition do you not like, and which do you want to go with? And what point was I making...cut and paste man!
 
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Tone

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One does not need to be an English major to know the difference between "your" and "you're".I

Being a high school graduate should be more than enough. Though standards have fallen lately.


Yeah, well, I changed it like many minutes ago...so set your mind at ease...

*You'd think you would be courteous enough to give me time to proof it...

**Oh, but you want to use that to equivocate...
 
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Tone

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Nope, and that was not a spelling error, that was an error in usage.

It was actually both...so you've proven that you are talking soup with a real human being and not a bot...what next?
 
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Subduction Zone

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It was actually both...so you've proven that you are talking soup with a real human being and not a bot...what next?
I don't know. Did you ever acknowledge your error in claiming faith in science? Excuse me for not remembering your exact phrasing.
 
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Tone

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I don't know. Did you ever acknowledge your error in claiming faith in science? Excuse me for not remembering your exact phrasing.

Okay, Mr. Logic. Do you know how to present a real argument? Take your time, read through my posts...present your argument. Formal debate?

*I'm done with the Pee Wee Hermanuetics...
 
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Subduction Zone

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Okay, Mr. Logic. Do you know how to present a real argument? Take your time, read through my posts...present your argument. Formal debate?

*I'm done with the Pee Wee Hermanuetics...
I corrected a major error earlier today. If you can't own up to that a debate is pointless.
 
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Tone

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Here is my attempt to make it a little clearer to see my train of thought, I know, it's very raw, but I believe anyone who takes the time to read through will see a reasonable flow (I'm not going to do a formal argument here on this thread...too much time):

Words are Energy



"Linguistics is the scientific study of language.[1] It involves analysing language form, language meaning, and language in context.[2] The earliest activities in the documentationand description of language have been attributed to the 6th-century-BC Indian grammarian Pāṇini[3][4] who wrote a formal description of the Sanskrit language in his Aṣṭādhyāyī.[5]"
Linguistics - Wikipedia


"Energetics (also called energy economics) is the study of energy under transformation. Because energy flows at all scales, from the quantum level to the biosphere and cosmos, energetics is a very broad discipline, encompassing for example thermodynamics, chemistry, biological energetics, biochemistry and ecological energetics. Where each branch of energetics begins and ends is a topic of constant debate. For example, Lehninger (1973, p. 21) contended that when the science of thermodynamics deals with energy exchanges of all types, it can be called energetics."
Energetics - Wikipedia

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"energy (n.)

1590s, "force of expression," from Middle French énergie (16c.), from Late Latin energia, from Greek energeia "activity, action, operation," from energos "active, working," from en "at" (see en- (2)) + ergon "work, that which is wrought; business; action," from PIE root *werg- "to do."


Used by Aristotle with a sense of "actuality, reality, existence" (opposed to "potential") but this was misunderstood in Late Latin and afterward as "force of expression," [emphasis mine] as the power which calls up realistic mental pictures. Broader meaning of "power" in English is first recorded 1660s. Scientific use is from 1807. Energy crisis first attested 1970."

energy | Origin and meaning of energy by Online Etymology Dictionary


Historical Development of the Word "Energy" | Energy Fundamentals


Strong's Hebrew: 8633. תֹּ֫קֶף (toqeph) -- power, strength, energy
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"A word is more then it's definition because it contains energy and power. Klingler explains that we actually feel words.


Think of the word inch and notice what happens to your energy. How do you feel as you think or say the word?


Now, try the same thing with the word mile. Did you feel a difference in your energy between those two words? (I definitely do.)


And now close your eyes and think of the words short and tall? Did your energy shrink with short andexpand with tall? And what about those two words shrink and expand? It's crazy how we really can feel the difference in the energy of words.


Klingler explains that even though words don't seem to have an emotional value we can still feel a difference between them. And that's because words have energy."
The Power of Positive Words - Why the energy of words affect you!
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"Words are energy and energy affects matter. The energy of your microwave vibrates the water molecules and heats the water. The energy of electricity flows to your washing machine and powers the motor that spins the tub and cleans your clothes.


So, we can rightfully say that energy affects matter. Your words are energy that affects the matter in your life. When you speak the words, "This is the worst car I have ever had! You stupid piece of junk!" Those words are vibrations of energy that affect the atoms that make up that car. If you speak those words long enough, your car will obey you!


Scientists have performed experiments with atoms and their subatomic particles such as electrons. If you paid attention in school, you saw the diagram of an atom with the electron orbiting it like the earth orbits the sun.


The interesting thing is that scientists have discovered that the electron that is shown orbiting the nucleus is not always there in particle form. It exists in a wave state (like a cloud, everywhere at once) until someone looks at it.


When the scientist observes it, it suddenly appears as a dot (particle). What we all want to know is, "How does it know someone is looking at it?" It obviously is responding to the observer.


One of the difficulties in quantum physics is that the particles behave somewhat differently for each observer, which leads me to the question, "Does it behave according to what the scientist believes?"


In any event, we can definitely conclude that Jesus was right when He taught that all matter responds to faith and words. The substance from which our world is made is influenced and manifested by words. The things that you desire are made up of atoms. They know what you believe, hear what you say and behave accordingly!"
Words Are Energy
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"There are many studies and experiments done on plants in which the same plants were placed in three separate rooms. In one room kind words were spoken, in the second harsh words were spoken and in the third room, there was pin-drop silence. The results showed that the plants which were exposed to kind words grew a little more than the other two. What does it show?


It shows that words are important. They effect all living beings. If they can effect plants, imagine the impact they would have on humans."
The science behind power of words - Daily Times
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"Source:

A study released on August 26, 2013 confirms that language has the power to reshape our knowledge and expectations of the world we see. Interestingly, another study released the same day found that one’s “dispositional attitude” is what makes some people love everything they see and others to hate everything. Put together, this new research offers clues on ways that someone can change his or her explanatory style to be happier and more optimistic.


As an athlete, I have always used self-talk to create a parallel universe where anything is possible and the world around me is cooperating to help me achieve a goal. Whether I’m running 135-miles through Death Valley in July, or 154-miles in 24 hours on a treadmill — my inner dialogue always stays positive, optimistic and upbeat. I consciously reframe reality to make adverse or 'disagreeable' physical conditions become agreeable."
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/...ntists-find-single-word-can-alter-perceptions
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"Observer bias (also called experimenter bias or research bias) is the tendency to see what we expect to see, or what we want to see. When a researcher studies a certain group, they usually come to an experiment with prior knowledge and subjective feelings about the group being studied. In other words, they come to the table with conscious or unconscious prejudices."
Observer Bias / Research or Experimenter Bias: Definition, Examples, How to Avoid - Statistics How To
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"It is natural to imagine that the sense of sight takes in the world as it is — simply passing on what the eyes collect from light reflected by the objects around us.


But the eyes do not work alone. What we see is a function not only of incoming visual information, but also how that information is interpreted in light of other visual experiences, and may even be influenced by language.


Words can play a powerful role in what we see, according to a study published this month by UW–Madison cognitive scientist and psychology professor Gary Lupyan, and Emily Ward, a Yale University graduate student, in the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences."
Language can reveal the invisible, study shows
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*John 1:1
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."


Hebrews 11:1
"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Words)


(Emphasis mine)

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Words are indeed powerful...


*Dâbhâr - Hebrew Thoughts- Language Studies - StudyLight.org

**"verb, דבר dâbhar (Strong's #1696), occurs over 1100 times and required 45 different English words). It can also be translated by 'power', 'purpose', 'book', 'provision', 'reason', 'work', 'matter', 'thing', 'cause' or 'commandment' (e.g., the 10 commandments or 10 words, Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13; 10:4)..."

(Emphasis mine)


"The Word was not just spoken it contained the power to fulfil or at the very least the intent to keep one's word. When the prophet heard a Word from the Lord it contained the driving force to impel its delivery. Jeremiah (20:9) could not restrain the Word any longer, but had to let it out. Just as the New Testament describes it the Word is alive and active, creative and explosive. It also was life to its hearers (Deuteronomy 32:46-47 and Jesus' words in John 6:63,68).


In the Old Testament the Word is almost personified, as is Wisdom, this is finally revealed in the New Testament as a description of Jesus, the Word incarnate."
Dâbhâr - Hebrew Thoughts- Language Studies - StudyLight.org
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"E = mc2, equation in German-born physicist Albert Einstein’s theory of special relativity that expresses the fact that mass and energy are the same physical entity and can be changed into each other. In the equation, the increased relativistic mass (m) of a body times the speed of light squared (c2) is equal to the kinetic energy (E) of that body."
E = mc^2 | Equation, Explanation, & Proof
 
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tas8831

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You are now the 3rd person to completely avoid my points. Smug retorts are not arguments.
You do not seem to have a basic grasp of evolutionary biology or genetics, and your points made this loud and clear:


"How much time must pass before my christmas tree turns into a dog?"

Dumbest thing I've seen on here in some time.

What did you think anyone should reply to?
 
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tas8831

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I'll take you on your word. Since your a mathematician could you refer to my math on genetic differences between chimpanzees and humans and the rate of evolution?
Your math is a joke.

Weird that you totally ignored this:

Look into it, trust me evolution comes out to be a myth from a guy who was a racist who said the irish were lower than the blacks.
Why on earth would I trust someone whose first 'argument' is a fallacious ad hominem?
Claiming someone else's beliefs myths while regurgitating something a guy in a lab coat said that you can't prove is the same thing. Your running on faith like everyone else.
Cool story. As it turns out, I am one of those guys in a labcoat, and I am betting you are not? Try this on for size and show me the myth:

I forget now who originally posted these on this forum, but I keep it in my archives because it offers a nice 'linear' progression of testing a methodology and then applying it - I have already posted this 2 or 3 times in thread alone for creationists who claim that there is no evidence for evolution:

The tested methodology:

Science 25 October 1991:
Vol. 254. no. 5031, pp. 554 - 558

Gene trees and the origins of inbred strains of mice

WR Atchley and WM Fitch

Extensive data on genetic divergence among 24 inbred strains of mice provide an opportunity to examine the concordance of gene trees and species trees, especially whether structured subsamples of loci give congruent estimates of phylogenetic relationships. Phylogenetic analyses of 144 separate loci reproduce almost exactly the known genealogical relationships among these 24 strains. Partitioning these loci into structured subsets representing loci coding for proteins, the immune system and endogenous viruses give incongruent phylogenetic results. The gene tree based on protein loci provides an accurate picture of the genealogical relationships among strains; however, gene trees based upon immune and viral data show significant deviations from known genealogical affinities.

======================

Science, Vol 255, Issue 5044, 589-592

Experimental phylogenetics: generation of a known phylogeny

DM Hillis, JJ Bull, ME White, MR Badgett, and IJ Molineux
Department of Zoology, University of Texas, Austin 78712.

Although methods of phylogenetic estimation are used routinely in comparative biology, direct tests of these methods are hampered by the lack of known phylogenies. Here a system based on serial propagation of bacteriophage T7 in the presence of a mutagen was used to create the first completely known phylogeny. Restriction-site maps of the terminal lineages were used to infer the evolutionary history of the experimental lines for comparison to the known history and actual ancestors. The five methods used to reconstruct branching pattern all predicted the correct topology but varied in their predictions of branch lengths; one method also predicts ancestral restriction maps and was found to be greater than 98 percent accurate.

==================================

Science, Vol 264, Issue 5159, 671-677

Application and accuracy of molecular phylogenies

DM Hillis, JP Huelsenbeck, and CW Cunningham
Department of Zoology, University of Texas, Austin 78712.

Molecular investigations of evolutionary history are being used to study subjects as diverse as the epidemiology of acquired immune deficiency syndrome and the origin of life. These studies depend on accurate estimates of phylogeny. The performance of methods of phylogenetic analysis can be assessed by numerical simulation studies and by the experimental evolution of organisms in controlled laboratory situations. Both kinds of assessment indicate that existing methods are effective at estimating phylogenies over a wide range of evolutionary conditions, especially if information about substitution bias is used to provide differential weightings for character transformations.



We can conclude that the results of an application of those methods have merit.


Application of the tested methodology:

Implications of natural selection in shaping 99.4% nonsynonymous DNA identity between humans and chimpanzees: Enlarging genus Homo

"Here we compare ≈90 kb of coding DNA nucleotide sequence from 97 human genes to their sequenced chimpanzee counterparts and to available sequenced gorilla, orangutan, and Old World monkey counterparts, and, on a more limited basis, to mouse. The nonsynonymous changes (functionally important), like synonymous changes (functionally much less important), show chimpanzees and humans to be most closely related, sharing 99.4% identity at nonsynonymous sites and 98.4% at synonymous sites. "



Mitochondrial Insertions into Primate Nuclear Genomes Suggest the Use of numts as a Tool for Phylogeny

"Moreover, numts identified in gorilla Supercontigs were used to test the human–chimp–gorilla trichotomy, yielding a high level of support for the sister relationship of human and chimpanzee."



A Molecular Phylogeny of Living Primates

"Once contentiously debated, the closest human relative of chimpanzee (Pan) within subfamily Homininae (Gorilla, Pan, Homo) is now generally undisputed. The branch forming the Homo andPanlineage apart from Gorilla is relatively short (node 73, 27 steps MP, 0 indels) compared with that of thePan genus (node 72, 91 steps MP, 2 indels) and suggests rapid speciation into the 3 genera occurred early in Homininae evolution. Based on 54 gene regions, Homo-Pan genetic distance range from 6.92 to 7.90×10−3 substitutions/site (P. paniscus and P. troglodytes, respectively), which is less than previous estimates based on large scale sequencing of specific regions such as chromosome 7[50]. "

Follow me here a sec,
Human and Chimp Genes May Have Split 13 Million Years Ago
Human beings and chimps last common ancestor estimated 13 million years ago.

Differences Between Chimp and Human DNA Recalculated
genetic difference between chimps and humans is 41.7million base pairs.

Generation time - Wikipedia
average human generation is 25 years

13 million years / 25 years of human generation = 520,000 generations
41.7 million base pairs between humans and chimps currently / 520,000 generations = 80.192 genetic base pairs changed per generation would be the rate of evolution.
Sounds great. A bit off, but who is counting? your point?

So, you are equating "80.192 genetic base pairs" so-called to "7 genetic differences"? Ok... I wrote as I smirked and chuckled to myself...

I'm sure you don't drastically different from your grandfather yet that's roughly 240 genetic base pair differences.
Let me help you out a bit, Champ -

1. A mutation is not the same thing as a different gene.
2. The human genome is made up of about 3 billion base pairs.
3. Those 240 mutations you mention account for a whopping 0.000008% of the genome.
4. There are only about 25000 genes in the genome
5. Most mutations do not even occur in genes or regulatory sequence

You are trying to formulate an anti-evolution argument premised on an article you read about dog breeds being accounted for by 7 genes, and me having 240 mutations my grandparents didn't have.

Have you heard the phrase "apples and oranges"? Your argument here is like "apples and fish."
15 Oldest Photographs Ever Known To The Human History
oldest photograph is from 1838

181 years ago would be 14503.349 genetic base differences people look like people today.
Oh GENETIC base pairs, why didn't you say so?

Another hint - a typical gene is made up of around 1500 coding base pairs. Even within coding sequence, mutations do not necessarily cause a change at all.

Apples and fish.
Maybe you don't know everything,

Never claimed to, but as one that has actually studied and received degrees in relevant science field,s I think I am up to snuff on this stuff - which is why I was able to tell your argument was, well, worthless.
maybe what you've been taught is wrong.
Same to you.
Think for yourself not just spew out other peoples rhetoric.
How ironic...
 
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tas8831

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I literally just showed you its unverifiable with photographic evidence.

You make no sense whatsoever - you think 40 million mutations or whatever it was 1. all occurred in humans and 2. that this number MUST have altered the physical facial appearance of humans?


And you think you made a point?


41 million bps is how much out of 3 BILLION? I guess you didn't take that into consideration.

1.3%.

How much of the genome is genes? About 2%.

Weird - didn't see that in your amazing equations...

Nor did you take into account anything about the actual genome.


How much time must pass before my christmas tree turns into a dog?
Why do you think nonsense is relevant at all?

Where are the missing links?

Where is the missing link between a parent of normal phenotype and their achondroplasic child?

What do you mean by 'missing link'? Details please.

What is the sexual advantage of a half developed eye?

What is a "half developed eye" and why would it be a "sexual advantage"?

I think you are using words that you do not understand.
 
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