You must PROVE you LOVE the LORD to be saved!

Aldebaran said: ↑
If that's the case, then why does the bible teach over and over that our salvation is by grace though faith rather than by what we do?

BCsenior said:

You don't have a clue, do you, what kind of faith Paul was talking about. Faith w/o works is dead.

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James was speaking about evidence of one's faith. In order to demonstrate that one has faith, one must have works/deeds. Just as James 2:18 says. Just note that the quote marks should be for both sentences, not just the first.

True saving faith is not what you think it is.

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It's certainly not what this poster thinks it is.

True saving faith produces lots of repentance,
and obedience, and good works/deeds ...
all kinds of proof.
What kind of proof do you have?

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If this poster were correct, maybe he can explain WHY there are so many commands for obedience, good works, etc.

His view suggests that true saving faith WILL produce all that he notes. If true, there would be NO NEED for any such commands.

If one doesn't have this so-called true saving faith, defined by this poster, simply changing one's lifestyle won't do anything anyway.

P.S. I'm endeavoring to wake you up!

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Said the sleeper.

Dorothy Mae said:

Whats the difference? In general, believing FOR something means you don’t have it yet. Is that what you mean? OSASrs believe they GOT it and no one can take it away.

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John 10:28,29 is quite clear on that point.

They needn’t endure or forgive or even love God.

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This poster continues to promulgate a very false view of those she is in opposition to. I've told her many times there IS a need to endure. For blessings, future eternal reward, and to avoid God's PAINFUL discipline. She just chooses to ignore those points. Which is very dishonest.

It’s “free” means they just believe they got it, nothing else needed. Of course they use cover words “like Jesus doesn’t lie.”

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Well, He doesn't. And it's His own promise that teaches eternal security. Those He gives eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28

I know parents who indeed kicked their child out of the house and changed the locks. All privileges as a child were revoked. Still a child but the Father’s home was not their home anymore. God has no problem saying, “ depart” to those who fell away.

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So now she compares human parents (fallen sinners, no less) with God? Pitiful.

Jesus calls human parents EVIL (Matt 7:11). And she has the audacity to compare evil people with God. As if He acts the same way as evil parents.

BCsenior said:

BACs who do have true saving faith
(all of this can be backed up by many NT verses):

-- their faith-trust endures until their last breath
-- they love Jesus enough to obey His commandments
-- they practice righteousness
-- they love their fellow brothers and sisters
-- they continue to repent of their sins
-- they co-operate with the Holy Spirit unto holiness
-- they forgive everyone, with no judging/condemning
-- they live their lives as victorious overcomers
-- they are not involved in habitual sin
-- they are not deceived by the "grace-only" doctrine
Coming up in North America ...
-- they will faithfully endure Christian persecution!
-- they will not submit to taking the absolutely FATAL
mark of the beast (allegiance to the antichrist/Satan),
even if they have to watch their families starve to death!

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Actually, none of this can be backed up with Scripture.

BCsenior said:

BACs who do have true saving faith
(all of this can be backed up by many NT verses):

-- their faith-trust endures until their last breath

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So only at death one knows if one has this “true saving faith?”

-- they love Jesus enough to obey His commandments

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That eliminates a lot of believers and most of the OSAAers. They aren’t willing to keep his teaching let alone love it.

-- they practice righteousness

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They don’t even practice courtesy.

-- they love their fellow brothers and sisters

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They hate those who challenge their theology and attack our character.

-- they continue to repent of their sins

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OSASers think all future sins are forgiven and need no repentance.

-- they co-operate with the Holy Spirit unto holiness
-- they forgive everyone, with no judging/condemning

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Not there either.

-- they live their lives as victorious overcomers
-- they are not involved in habitual sin
-- they are not deceived by the "grace-only" doctrine

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ditto

Coming up in North America ...
-- they will faithfully endure Christian persecution!

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They should move elsewhere. There’s no such thing in many places![/QUOTE]

Dorothy Mae said:

So only at death one knows if one has this “true saving faith?” That eliminates a lot of believers and most of the OSAAers. They aren’t willing to keep his teaching let alone love it. They don’t even practice courtesy. They hate those who challenge their theology and attack our character.
OSASers think all future sins are forgiven and need no repentance.
Not there either. ditto They should move elsewhere. There’s no such thing in many places!

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This poster demonstrates a total lack of understanding of the OSAS position. Seems her emotions keep getting the best of her.

The correct position has been explained to her enough times, so all this demonstrates is an unwillingness to listen.

BCsenior said:

Methinks I should post some NT verses about this!
As to post #443, I'm confused as to where you stand?

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When someone says true believers will endure to the end as a definition, they are limiting knowing whether one is or not ONLY at the end, not before. Example,

“How do you know you’re a true believer Fred?”

“Cause I’ll endure to the end.”

“So you’ll know at the end when you’ve endured?”

Don’t use a definition that requires life to be over to be fulfilled.

(By the way, Jesus said many (true believers) will fall away from the faith and betray many.)

FreeGrace2 said:

This poster demonstrates a total lack of understanding of the OSAS position. Seems her emotions keep getting the best of her.

The correct position has been explained to her enough times, so all this demonstrates is an unwillingness to listen.

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See? No love of the brethren, just character attacks.

Dorothy Mae said:

See? No love of the brethren, just character attacks.

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How is what I said:
"The correct position has been explained to her enough times, so all this demonstrates is an unwillingness to listen."

not a character trait?

Pointing out errors is not an attack. Only seems that way to hypersensitive people.

This is what Paul commanded Titus:

Titus 1:13 - This saying is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith

Does this show "no love of the brethren"?

BCsenior said:

No need to point it out to moi!
But, some others probably need to see it.

There are many in the churches who are NOT saved.

BACs have the indwelling Holy Spirit ...
to lead them into all (spiritual) Truth (John 14:26).

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There is an increase of the false teaching of OSAS and Calvinism in the church that stunts growth in believers and likely inoculates unbelievers against following Jesus. Choices don’t matter for these by and large so they needn’t take cree what ones they make. So I agree although I’m not into acronyms:

It isn’t an experience of the HS that leads to truth alone. It is keeping his teaching that does. Jesus says those who keep (do) his teaching will come to know the truth. And the truth sets such free.

An experience isn’t enough.

BCsenior said:

4 times in John 14, Jesus says ...
those who love Him will obey His commandments!

Who gets into heaven who do NOT love Jesus?

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I agree. But OSAS believers, some at least, don’t think you have to do anything but believe and receive the “free” gift of salvation from hell. They think don’t have to do anything including love God.

A very good question to ask OSASers is if they have to love God to be saved. They don’t like that question.

BCsenior said:

Yes, indeed ... thanks for the reminder!

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I have found they squirm or deny that have to love God. They just love their salvation. God is merely useful to that end in their theology.

Dorothy Mae said:

I have found they squirm or deny that have to love God.

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I don't squirm when I answer from Scripture that salvation is by grace through faith, and not by works.

They just love their salvation.

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Who wouldn't love their salvation?

God is merely useful to that end in their theology.

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That would be an opinion only. And not an accurate one.

Recall that it is God's plan (will) for how man must be saved. Man had no part in helping God come with His plan, which it seems you think OSASers think.

John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

In this verse we read about how to be saved and the guarantee of eternal security.

If there is an alternative understanding of this verse, please share.

Aldebaran said:

But He wouldn't be telling the truth if He said, "I never knew you" if they were His sons and daughters.

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Is there anyone on the planet or throughout time God doesn’t know was born? Anyone whose name He doesn’t know? Anyone going to stand before the throne and Jesus has to ask them who they are?

Doesn’t mean Jesus doesn’t know them or that they weren’t his but walked away.