Why do you (atheists, agnostics etc) find yourself in the Christian forums?

Romans 8 said:

It's easier to address the spirit as a metaphor. Because even if it's true, I don't think we have the capacity to understand it completely.
The point is we're different than animals. They act on instinct, where as humans have their own internal compass of right and wrong.

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Animals have an understanding of right and wrong as well; (albeit to a much lesser extent) otherwise we wouldn't be able to train them to act outside of their instinct. But don't cha think the fact that humans are far more intelligent than animals, that this might account for our superior ability to understand the difference between right and wrong?

Romans 8 said:

I'm interested in hearing what draws you here. Do you have one foot in the door? Are you slowly exposing yourself towards Christ (dipping your toes first)?

The reason I ask is that I can't relate to you. This is the last place I would go for discussion as an atheist or agnostic. Do you come here because you're treated with more respect? Do you take a shining to discussing religion related topics? Do you simply like the forum rules? Are you back-slidden and attempting to get back on the horse? To debate? I don't get it.

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I came here years ago back when I was interested in the evolution v. creation debates but since then have moved onto only really discussing societal issues like politics and current events once I realized that the evolution debate isn't really where my heart is. I don't really spend much time or effort debating religious concepts because I have no interest in changing anyone's opinion or faith, nor do I think I have enough figured out to do so.

I like the balance in perspective that I get hearing Christians or conservatives give their viewpoints on different subjects that pertain to our shared experience in America. I also really like the community here, both Christian and non, and feel that the mods do a really good job in keeping things mostly civil around here. Compared to comments sections on YouTube and Facebook, this place is like an oasis in an otherwise hostile desert of mean spirited arguing on the internet.

Romans 8 said:

The animals you're referring to are domesticated. They do not understand right and wrong, they understand reward and punishment. Wild dogs and cats will tear you to pieces and eat you without remorse.

Anyway, it's fine that you don't agree. The seed has already been planted and exactly this time next year you will be just arriving home from church services and praising God.

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Is this a prophecy? If so I'll put my perfect prediction streak on the line and say it will be shown to be false. So far in my life every time a Christian has predicted something and given a time frame they have failed.

Ken-1122 said:

Animals have an understanding of right and wrong as well; (albeit to a much lesser extent) otherwise we wouldn't be able to train them to act outside of their instinct. But don't cha think the fact that humans are far more intelligent than animals, that this might account for our superior ability to understand the difference between right and wrong?

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I had 2 dogs who understood right and wrong far better than many humans I have met. One thing in particular could not be explained by them reacting to rewards or punishment. THEY decided what food was morally theirs. Anything on the floor was legally theirs, anything on the counter of kitchen table was out of bounds and never touched. The interesting thing was the coffee table. They considered things there fair game, not definitively theirs but not out of bounds.

Before anyone tries to claim that they would have had trouble getting to something as high as the counters or table let me point out that they were 105 and 120 pounds and I'd usually get a kiss from the 120 pound dog when getting home from work. Either of them on their hind legs stood almost as tall as I do.

Romans 8 said:

Just simple humor.



If a Christian predicted something I'm not surprised if it was wrong. However, if the Holy Spirit gives prophecy through a Christian it is never wrong.

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Pretty much several different congregations believed that it and other predictions were from the Holy Spirit. The very first time they slipped up and gave a time frame they were proved wrong.

If there is no way to tell what is from The Holy Spirit other than to wait and see if it comes to pass then the claim is pretty worthless.

bekkilyn said:

Just like with Christians, it is going to depend on the person just how serious one is regarding his or her faith. There are a lot of county-club and nominal Christians all over the U.S. and perhaps some other countries, and is in fact, probably our largest mission field.

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Oh I would definitely agree with you here. In fact I would go as far to say this is probably the majority of Western Europeans. I cannot speak about the USA as a whole but having worked in NYC I did not come across that many religious people as I might have done outside the city.

I was in a relationship for many years with a Norwegian girl. No disrespect to any Scandinavian members but the level of guilt and religious fervor I encountered based on the sort of left-wing theory that is en vogue.

It made me very uncomfortable as a non-believer at the time. I don’t think religious or non-religious people are different at the fundamental level we are all flawed and capable of the same mistake.

Off topic but while I am addressing you directly. I have seen a fair amount if criticism directed at you and I don’t think it’s deserved. I could be wrong but it seems to me you do not treat anyone “group” favourably and I appreciate that.

God Bless,

J

Paulos23 said:

Most thinking Atheists take this route. In the end, that is the main thing we agree on.

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While I agree and this was my feelings for the majority of my life. Lack of proof does not or should not exclude the possibility.

There are many dishonest religious people of all faiths, I was used this idea. However I spent a lot of my life in academic circles despite my carrer being largely in I.T. and financial services.

Returning to academia there are a lot of things taken for and reported as fact that have no proof. Perhaps one study that has never been successfully replicated. There is a reproducibility crisis in academia right now.

Existence is still very much a mystery. However I respect anyone who holds the view expressed here. I am not learned enough to argue against. Nor do I think I should I think “believing” or not is a journey one should undergo on one’s own.

J

BWV 565 said:

Oh I would definitely agree with you here. In fact I would go as far to say this is probably the majority of Western Europeans. I cannot speak about the USA as a whole but having worked in NYC I did not come across that many religious people as I might have done outside the city.

I was in a relationship for many years with a Norwegian girl. No disrespect to any Scandinavian members but the level of guilt and religious fervor I encountered based on the sort of left-wing theory that is en vogue.

It made me very uncomfortable as a non-believer at the time. I don’t think religious or non-religious people are different at the fundamental level we are all flawed and capable of the same mistake.

Off topic but while I am addressing you directly. I have seen a fair amount if criticism directed at you and I don’t think it’s deserved. I could be wrong but it seems to me you do not treat anyone “group” favourably and I appreciate that.

God Bless,

J

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Thanks. While my sarcasm meter has a tendency to go off the rails from time to time, and there are some things I do very strongly disagree with, I believe that people in general tend to have a lot more similarities than differences, regardless of the religions or other groups that we all belong to.

bekkilyn said:

Thanks. While my sarcasm meter has a tendency to go off the rails from time to time, and there are some things I do very strongly disagree with, I believe that people in general tend to have a lot more similarities than differences, regardless of the religions or other groups that we all belong to.

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Yeah we’re not unalike you and I but I have to admit I have a rather sardonic sense of humour and have learned to tone down my sarcasm over the years. It does not always come across as intended on screen.

J

Romans 8 said:

The animals you're referring to are domesticated. They do not understand right and wrong, they understand reward and punishment.

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Actually my dog understands what I say is right, what I say is wrong, and when I resort to reward and punishment.

Romans 8 said:

Wild dogs and cats will tear you to pieces and eat you without remorse.

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Is that the litmus test of knowing right vs wrong? Because as humans, we have torn our share of animals to pieces, and ate them without remorse as well.

Romans 8 said:

Anyway, it's fine that you don't agree. The seed has already been planted and exactly this time next year you will be just arriving home from church services and praising God.

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That seed planting goes both ways ya know! Hopefully our brief exchange of words will result in you having a new understanding of why people like me end up on forums like this; hopefully one day you will get it.

Romans 8 said:

I don't feel an obligation to convert anyone at the moment. I could elaborate but it's apples to oranges to non-believers.

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Really? Because your religion specifically commands you to. More than that, it makes sense that it should: unbelievers will go to hell; therefore, by neglecting the Great Commision, you are condemning the souls you might otherwise have saved.
Please understand, I am not attacking you here; it's your religion that made these rules for you.

Romans 8 said:

It's an uneven playing ground. Non-believers do not understand Christianity and cannot see it for what it is. I will go as far as to say that many believers do not understand Christianity. Many dip their tow in the water, but do not actually submerse. That includes those that "lost their faith", because truly they never had it. Christianity is not mind based, it's foundation is in the heart. So it's not a debate of logic, it's much deeper than that.

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That's an interesting claim, and I'm sure you believe it. But you also believe that all other religions are, at best, sincerely mistaken in their devotion; and that's the same way I feel about you. No doubt you are a good person, but you're wrong. And if you want to say, "Well, actually, I'm right, and I know because I can experience my religion as true," then I'll say, "Good for you, but that's exactly what other religions say as well. You and I are in exact agreement over the thousands of religions that exist or have existed, and I just go one further than you to include Christianity."

Romans 8 said:

What kinds of horrible things are Christians saying that's got you people so roused? That you're going to hell if you reject Christ? How are Christians so mean and despicable?

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I was actually referring to Christians who say atheists lack a moral compass. Recently, I had one Christian on this forum tell me that if he was an atheist he would think that killing people is wrong; but he's a Christian, so he doesn't. I think that's pretty insulting.
And, since you bring it up, don't you think it's horrible to say to somebody "You are one day going to suffer the worst punishment imaginable, and it will go on forever. And I do not object to that happening"?
If you don't object to me going to hell, the corollary is that you think I deserve it. N'est ce pas?

---SE---

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The Buddha died because it is in the nature of the physical body to die, as he repeatedly taught. While his physical body died, his consciousness remained in blissful peace, which was his real "saving message".

(Also, I'm on CF because I was here originally as a Christian, and subsequently converted to Buddhism.)

Romans 8 said:

I was involved with Tibetan Buddhism. I met many of the rinpoches from Tibet. I learned that the religion itself while sounds good in a book, does not offer the same experience. It's actually an occult religion of magic. If you're involved with this form of buddhism, I think it's the most potentially damaging.

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Ah. I would largely agree with your assessment. I'm more aligned with Theravada, Thai Forest Tradition.

Romans 8 said:

Well, it's a tiny bit complicated. But I'll explain it briefly. Yes, you're right, Christians are commanded to spread the gospel. However, I'm a new Christian and I do not have the Holy Spirit yet (if you don't understand this refer to my previous post on baptism of the Holy Spirit). In order to be effective in ones evangelizing, one needs the Holy Spirit. It's basically God working within you. This is how non-believers are changed. Not so much by an intellectual battle like these forums are all about. Great question.

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I kind of agree with you, but I wouldn't beat yourself up over it as not every Christian is called to evangelise. If a person in Christ is convicted deeply in their spirit to evangelise then that is probably their calling and they should do so faithfully. The body of Christ (his church) is one body with many parts to it, and it is the unity and diversity of these many parts that God intended it to be set up that way.

I recommend you read 1 Corinthians 12:12-30 to gain some understanding of the matter.

Well, since I have no wish to be insulting, I'll simply say that I don't think you understand your new religion all that well yet.