Evening (Sunset) and Morning (Sunrise) = 1 Day

YHWH_will_uplift · Mar 27, 2019

gadar perets said:
One more question; Please define the phrase "between the evenings" as in Exodus 12:6.

YHWH_will_uplift said:
There is a point brother...if everyone starts their day at different times in general then that makes the particulars irrelevant. But because the Word of God clearly and simply defines a day and when it ends and begins: this proves that all who do not follow His standard are lost. And think about your last sentence: how does it make sense to begin the day in the middle of the night? Furthermore why would you begin the day asleep? In nature all things begin in the morning when the light comes out and end when it is evening.

gadar perets said:
If BTE = Twilight, then it occurs AFTER the day ends. Is that correct? If so, please consider Numbers 28:4;

The one lamb shalt thou offer in the morning, and the other lamb shalt thou offer at even ; KJV

The one lamb thou preparest in the morning, and the second lamb thou preparest between the evenings; YLT

This verse deals with the time of the evening sacrifice. It had to be offered the same day as the morning sacrifice (Numbers 28:3).

First, the historical testimony of Josephus places the evening sacrifice at "about the ninth hour" or approximately 3:00 p.m. (Antiquities 14.4.3). This agrees with his statement that the Passover lamb was sacrificed "between the ninth and the eleventh hour" (Wars 6.9.3). Two different sacrifices, both occurring at about the ninth hour and both fulfilling the command to sacrifice "between the evenings."

Secondly, we have the clear meaning of two other Hebrew words to assure us of the meaning intended. The word "one" used in verse 4 is the Hebrew word "echad" which can also mean "first" as in Numbers 29:1 and many other texts.

Numbers 29:1a - "And in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, ye shall have an holy convocation;"

More importantly is the Hebrew word translated "other" in verse 8. It is "sheniy" meaning "double ie: second," according to Strong's Concordance. "Sheniy" is the most common Hebrew word for "second." If the "other" lamb, or more correctly, the "second" lamb, were sacrificed after sunset (during twilight) it would not have been sacrificed on the same day as the first lamb. Both lambs had to be sacrificed the same day, the first one in the morning and the second one between the evenings or late in the day, but before sunset.

YHWH_will_uplift said:
You're the neglecting the different senses of the phrase "between the evenings". While the example with Josephus shows that the evening may be broken up into three parts and thereby fulfilling the command to sacrifice between those two parts of evening: it is not referring to twilight in the sense I shared.

Twilight in nature occurs between the two evenings below:

Evening > Sunset [Twilight] Post Sunset > Nightfall

Therefore during this period it is neither light nor dark. And we see that in some of the cases in which twilight was used as a translation for the Hebrew HaEReBIM, literally "the evenings" the translators were expressing twilight in the sense of two lights as in the example of Josephus: not the time where it is neither light nor dark.

gadar perets said:
You did not address my main point. If twilight is when the evening sacrifice is to occur, then it is NOT within the same day as the morning sacrifice. It must be made prior to sunset which means "between the evenings" must be prior to sunset. The first lamb AND the second lamb must be offered the same day.

YHWH_will_uplift said:
Brother please re-read my reply carefully I clearly said that twilight was used by the translators to be in agreement with the example you gave for Josephus. I never said twilight had only one sense in which it may be used: you're assuming that twilight only has one sense and then you look up every scripture with twilight or the phrase "between the evenings" and say I'm wrong because you failed to see that words have more than one sense.

gadar perets said:
Josephus has nothing to do with what the Scriptures say. I merely mentioned him as a second witness to what I was trying to show you. Also, I don't know what you are talking about when you mention the translators and twilight. I never looked up twilight and I could care less which translations use it. I was going by your definition of twilight being AFTER sunset. Face it bro, your between the evenings is AFTER sunset and that is unscriptural.

YHWH_will_uplift said:
Thank you for proving my point further....you want to take my one definition of twilight I introduced and then find some way to falsify it by trying to trap me with the sacrifice. The usage with twilight concerning the sacrifice is different than the sense I used in the beginning of our discussion. If the sense I introduced is unscriptural then use scripture to point that out instead of trying to force your views and brow beat. I am not at fault for your lack of due diligence brother.

gadar perets said:
I am not saying your definition of twilight is wrong. Twilight is AFTER sunset. We both agree. It is your definition of "between the evenings" that is wrong. You said it was twilight meaning AFTER sunset. I say it is a time BEFORE sunset and I gave you Scripture to prove it. If you disagree, then explain the verses I gave without trying to judge my heart.

YHWH_will_uplift said:
....I never disagreed with you I simply said there are different senses to the word 'twilight' and the phrase 'between the evenings'...simple...you keep trying to force what you say onto me and I am saying look at the context to determine usage

YHWH_will_uplift said:
Okay when and where did I mention that no one will be forgiven for sins done in ignorance? The only unforgivable sin in the Bible is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Your original point was that we cannot lose salvation based on sin whether willful or ignorant. And this stemmed from your feelings on losing salvation due to being ignorant on basic foundational truths in the Torah. You have made it clear in your response that you understand that if you are not forgiven for your sins then you will not only lose out on blessings and eternal rewards but, you will lose your salvation.

But this thread is not discussing salvation or works or faith: it has been created to discuss the beginning and end of a day, how God defines a day, and why that is important. So, if you would kindly return to that subject it would be much appreciated. We have already come to an understanding regarding twilight and between the evenings so, what conclusion have you come to based on the evidence I have shared in regards to the the day being defined in the Bible as being from evening to morning?

gadar perets said:
And you have made it clear that if we don't keep morning to evening days, we will be lost forever even though we may do so through ignorance.

We have not concluded anything about "between the evenings". There are not two definitions of that time period. Twilight is NOT a definition of "between the evenings".

As for your last statement, I assume you meant "defined in the Bible as being from morning to evening". I agree that the daylight portion of a day is morning to evening, but the broader definition of "day" can also include the night.

YHWH_will_uplift said:
Brother Gadar...there is nothing further to discuss about twilight: you made it clear that you want to stick to your singular sense of twilight and between the evenings and willfully ignore other senses of those terms. You asked me a question about between the evenings and twilight so, I gave you my answer: you got upset and threw a fit. Go read a dictionary and you will see that words are not confined to a singular sense...if you live life a little you will notice in your day to day interactions that language is alive...the etymology of the word language comes from the Latin lingua which literally means 'tongue': therefore the tongue is an organ which may be used for speech primarily but, it is not limited to that sole function it is also used to taste and touch: the same logic applies to words which are a combination of sounds so, depending on what sound you make will determine which word you speak; and, the sense of the word is dependent on the context within which it is used.

gadar perets said:
I have yet to see those senses in Scripture since you failed to provide any.

"Got upset and threw a fit"??? Since you are referring to post #154, anyone can now go back and read it to see that you lied about me. Lying doesn't help your cause.

I have no problem with multi-definition words. Show me two verses in Scripture where "between the evenings" has two different meanings.

YHWH_will_uplift said:
Alright this will be the last discussion about twilight...sigh...in the beginning I said twilight is the time where it is neither light nor dark; and, I said twilight occurs at two specific times: 1) Between the mornings (after dawn but before sunrise ) and 2) Between the evenings (after sunset but before dusk). After I clearly defined this you asked me: "Do you define 'between the evening' as twilight? then you went on a rant about how you believe my definition of twilight is wrong--after I clearly used Genesis 1:1-3 to support my usage of twilight--and you provided the passage from Josephus and Numbers 28:1-8 to support your usage of the phrase 'between the evenings'. Finally I said that all you proved that twilight and between the evenings have different uses. Since that time you have been throwing tantrums and telling me how wrong I am so, I have decided that if that's how you're going to discuss I will make my point one last time and requested we get back on subject.

That being said could you please share your conclusions on the evidence I have clearly provided throughout this thread?

Here are all of the exchanges between us concerning the subject of twilight and 'between the evenings'. You started off by asking me if my definition of twilight fits within the context of Exodus 12:6 and I said yes. Anyone can read that passage and see my usage of twilight fits here. You then jumped to Numbers 28:1-8 and Josephus to ask me if it fits there; and, then you made the conclusion on my behalf that if I say yes then I am wrong because my usage of twilight does not fit within the context of the passages you brought up: therefore I said that my usage of twilight is not the same as the way it is used in the passages you provided: you got upset because I foiled your plan of trying to trap me:

gadar perets: Oooo...if I get him to agree with Exodus 12:6 then he'll be trapped when I bring up the passages from the book of Numbers!

...later that day gadar perets finds out his trap was not foolproof...throws a fit and rage quits...

gadar perets · Mar 27, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
Alright this will be the last discussion about twilight...sigh...in the beginning I said twilight is the time where it is neither light nor dark; and, I said twilight occurs at two specific times: 1) Between the mornings (after dawn but before sunrise ) and 2) Between the evenings (after sunset but before dusk). After I clearly defined this you asked me: "Do you define 'between the evening' as twilight?

False. I did not ask you anything about twilight. I asked you to define the phrase "between the evenings". Here are my exact words;

One more question; Please define the phrase "between the evenings" as in Exodus 12:6.

then you went on a rant about how you believe my definition of twilight is wrong--after I clearly used Genesis 1:1-3 to support my usage of twilight--and you provided the passage from Josephus and Numbers 28:1-8 to support your usage of the phrase 'between the evenings'.

False again. I never said your definition of twilight is wrong. I said your definition of "between the evenings" is wrong. Also, you choose to call my Scriptural explanation a "rant" because I clearly refuted your definition of BTE.

Finally I said that all you proved that twilight and between the evenings have different uses. Since that time you have been throwing tantrums and telling me how wrong I am so, I have decided that if that's how you're going to discuss I will make my point one last time and requested we get back on subject.

Again, you choose to view my Scriptural refutations as "tantrums" because you can't accept the fact that you were proven wrong. So you try and turn the discussion around from Scriptural to personal. Sad indeed.

That being said could you please share your conclusions on the evidence I have clearly provided throughout this thread?

Some things you wrote are true and some are not. I believe the "evening" of Genesis 1:5 occurs after sunset. You say it is before. The phrase "between the evenings" proves it is after sunset since those sacrifices took place before sunset and during the time called BTE. Therefore, Genesis 1:5 is correct when it says, "And the evening and the morning were the first day." Evening comes first right after the sun sets. Morning comes around sunrise. Together they comprise a broader definition of "day" which includes night. However, from sunrise to sunset is the narrower definition of "day".

YHWH_will_uplift · Mar 27, 2019

gadar perets said:
False. I did not ask you anything about twilight. I asked you to define the phrase "between the evenings". Here are my exact words;

One more question; Please define the phrase "between the evenings" as in Exodus 12:6.

False again. I never said your definition of twilight is wrong. I said your definition of "between the evenings" is wrong. Also, you choose to call my Scriptural explanation a "rant" because I clearly refuted your definition of BTE.

Again, you choose to view my Scriptural refutations as "tantrums" because you can't accept the fact that you were proven wrong. So you try and turn the discussion around from Scriptural to personal. Sad indeed.

Some things you wrote are true and some are not. I believe the "evening" of Genesis 1:5 occurs after sunset. You say it is before. The phrase "between the evenings" proves it is after sunset since those sacrifices took place before sunset and during the time called BTE. Therefore, Genesis 1:5 is correct when it says, "And the evening and the morning were the first day." Evening comes first right after the sun sets. Morning comes around sunrise. Together they comprise a broader definition of "day" which includes night. However, from sunrise to sunset is the narrower definition of "day".

Well you're wrong in your reasoning because for the first three days of the week there was no Sun, Moon or stars: therefore there was no sunrise nor sunset (Genesis 1:1-13). And because the luminaries were created on the fourth day of the week (Genesis 1:14-19): Morning precedes the sunrise while evening precedes the sunset. The conversation between me and you was based on twilight and when you asked me what the phrase 'between the evenings' means I said twilight: therefore you said I was false because I said twilight = between the evenings and you even made a case saying that my usage is false because it does not agree with the usage you found.

YHWH_will_uplift · Mar 27, 2019

@gadar perets Do you realize I spent six pages answering your same questions which you attempted to reword multiple times and partially quote me to trip me up? Start reading from page 4 and read how much of a broken record you sound...

gadar perets · Mar 28, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
Well you're wrong in your reasoning because for the first three days of the week there was no Sun, Moon or stars: therefore there was no sunrise nor sunset (Genesis 1:1-13).

This is irrelevant since the sun's creation sectioned off a block of time in which the sun's light coincided with morning. Anything after sunset would have been evening when the moon began to rule.

And because the luminaries were created on the fourth day of the week (Genesis 1:14-19): Morning precedes the sunrise while evening precedes the sunset.

I don't understand why you are putting morning first when six verses in Genesis 1 put evening first.

The conversation between me and you was based on twilight and when you asked me what the phrase 'between the evenings' means I said twilight: therefore you said I was false because I said twilight = between the evenings and you even made a case saying that my usage is false because it does not agree with the usage you found.

Correct. I showed you Scripturally why "between the evenings" does NOT refer to twilight. You have yet to give me Scripture showing it does refer to twilight.

gadar perets · Mar 28, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
@gadar perets Do you realize I spent six pages answering your same questions which you attempted to reword multiple times and partially quote me to trip me up? Start reading from page 4 and read how much of a broken record you sound...

That is just you seeking to find fault with me personally since you can't find fault with my understanding of Scripture.

YHWH_will_uplift · Mar 28, 2019

gadar perets said:
This is irrelevant since the sun's creation sectioned off a block of time in which the sun's light coincided with morning. Anything after sunset would have been evening when the moon began to rule.

Sorry brother this is very relevant as scripture exposes the error in your reasoning. The Sun did not section off anything as it never existed until the fourth day of the week, the same logic applies to the Moon and the stars: anything beyond that is an attempt to stretch or distort the clear truth. Morning does not equal sunrise as sunrise is literally the Sun rising; evening does not equal sunset as sunset is literally the Sun setting; morning does not rise or set just as evening does not rise or set. Moses makes this point very clear when he says Morning and Evening = 1 Day and, before this he informs us that God said Light = Day therefore: Light = Morning and Evening = Day.

gadar perets said:
I don't understand why you are putting morning first when six verses in Genesis 1 put evening first.

The reason you can't understand or comprehend is simple:
"And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."
John 1:5

gadar perets said:
Correct. I showed you Scripturally why "between the evenings" does NOT refer to twilight. You have yet to give me Scripture showing it does refer to twilight.

You provided Exodus 12:6 and Numbers 28:4 for the scripture lol! Educate yourself and see how foolish you sound telling me multiple times I did not provide you with scripture when you provided it for yourself and the rest of us following this thread:

My usage of twilight/between the evenings
Exodus 12:6 You must care for it until the fourteenth day of the month, when the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel will slaughter the animals at twilight.

Alternate usage of twilight/between the evenings
Numbers 28:4 You are to offer one lamb in the morning and the other at twilight,

gadar perets said:
That is just you seeking to find fault with me personally since you can't find fault with my understanding of Scripture.

No I informed you of that so you could go back and read our whole conversation to educate yourself about yourself and, that I took more than enough time to break down every major and minor detail for you.

YHWH_will_uplift · Mar 28, 2019

@gadar perets Here are other discussions I had with another brother and sister here in this thread. I have provided more than enough clarity on this subject of day, night, and twilight.

YHWH_will_uplift said:
The day begins with the morning and is followed by sunrise, therefore the day ends with evening and is followed by sunset:

[Twilight]
Beginning of the 01st Day: Morning, Sunrise,
Middle of the 01st Day: Noon,
End of the 01st Day: Evening, Sunset
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 01st Night: 1st Hour (1st Zodiac Sign)
Middle of the 01st Night: 6th Hour (6th Zodiac Sign)
End of the 01st Night: 12th Hour (12th Zodiac Sign)
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 02nd Day: Morning, Sunrise,
Middle of the 02nd Day: Noon,
End of the 02nd Day: Evening, Sunset
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 02nd Night: 1st Hour (1st Zodiac Sign)
Middle of the 02nd Night: 6th Hour (6th Zodiac Sign)
End of the 02nd Night: 12th Hour (12th Zodiac Sign)
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 03rd Day: Morning, Sunrise,
Middle of the 03rd Day: Noon,
End of the 03rd Day: Evening, Sunset
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 03rd Night: 1st Hour (1st Zodiac Sign)
Middle of the 03rd Night: 6th Hour (6th Zodiac Sign)
End of the 03rd Night: 12th Hour (12th Zodiac Sign)
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 04th Day: Morning, Sunrise,
Middle of the 04th Day: Noon,
End of the 04th Day: Evening, Sunset
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 04th Night: 1st Hour (1st Zodiac Sign)
Middle of the 04th Night: 6th Hour (6th Zodiac Sign)
End of the 04th Night: 12th Hour (12th Zodiac Sign)
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 05th Day: Morning, Sunrise,
Middle of the 05th Day: Noon,
End of the 05th Day: Evening, Sunset
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 05th Night: 1st Hour (1st Zodiac Sign)
Middle of the 05th Night: 6th Hour (6th Zodiac Sign)
End of the 05th Night: 12th Hour (12th Zodiac Sign)
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 06th Day: Morning, Sunrise,
Middle of the 06th Day: Noon,
End of the 06th Day: Evening, Sunset
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 06th Night: 1st Hour (1st Zodiac Sign)
Middle of the 06th Night: 6th Hour (6th Zodiac Sign)
End of the 06th Night: 12th Hour (12th Zodiac Sign)
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 07th Day: Morning, Sunrise,
Middle of the 07th Day: Noon,
End of the 07th Day: Evening, Sunset
[Twilight]
Beginning of the 07th Night: 1st Hour (1st Zodiac Sign)
Middle of the 07th Night: 6th Hour (6th Zodiac Sign)
End of the 07th Night: 12th Hour (12th Zodiac Sign)
[Twilight]

YHWH_will_uplift said:
Well I wasn't asking about "my" perspective personally speaking in the singular sense, I was asking that question with "my" being plural. Anyways this thread is not about where I choose to personally start my day: it is examining where and when I start my day and seeing if that aligns with scripture. And what better place to start than the beginning? In my opening on the first page you will see that I am specifically focused on Genesis 1:1-5. If we work backwards from v. 5 it will become clear when the day begins and ends:

"[...]And the evening and the morning were the first day."
The morning here is the beginning of the second day. The evening is the end of the first day. This also signifies that 1 Day = Morning and Evening. Therefore the beginning of the day is the morning while the end of the day is the evening.

"And God called the light Day and the Darkness He called Night.[...]"
God names the periods of light and darkness accordingly so we know what time it is when we see these signs. When we see the light it is Day, when we see the darkness it is Night...simple.

"And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness."
God calls the light good and shows through His dividing it from the darkness that they are two different periods of time and, that they are not to be mixed. After God separated the two from one another morning began with the appearance of light.

"And God said, 'Let there be light': and there was light."
God called out the light: and it appeared. And since the darkness was there when He called the light they were mixed which created twilight: a period where there it is neither light nor dark. Here God used His Spirit to help banish the darkness with the light.

"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."
After God created the earth it had no shape at first and was empty of life; and the darkness was covering the waters which blocked out both from being seen. So God sent His Spirit to work.

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
"In the beginning[...]" = Time (creation)
"[...]God created[...]" = Creator
"[...]the heavens[...]" = Space (creation)
"[...]and the earth[...] = Matter (creation)
God created time, space, and matter. Therefore the creation of time signified the beginning of time and the beginning of the first day of the week. God also subjected these three creations to be finite (i.e. have a beginning, middle, and an end).

YHWH_will_uplift said:
And because you brought it up I will finish by including the whole week so it is clear for all to see:

"[...]And the evening and the morning were first day."
Genesis 1:5

The evening here is the end of the first day while the morning is the beginning of the second day.

"[...]And the evening and the morning were second day."
Genesis 1:5

The evening here is the end of the second day while the morning is the beginning of the third day.

"And the evening and the morning were third day."
Genesis 1:5

The evening here is the end of the third day while the morning is the beginning of the fourth day.

"And the evening and the morning were fourth day."
Genesis 1:5

The evening here is the end of the fourth day while the morning is the beginning of the fifth day.

"And the evening and the morning were fifth day."
Genesis 1:5

The evening here is the end of the fifth day while the morning is the beginning of the sixth day.

"[...]And the evening and the morning were sixth day."
Genesis 1:5

The evening here is the end of the sixth day while the morning is the beginning of the seventh day.

"Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made. "
Genesis 2:1-3

On the seventh day it does not end with the usual phrase, "And the evening and the morning were the __rd/th day." but, we may infer that because the seventh day of the week is the end of the week (literally the weekend) that the same logic applies to it as it does to the previous six days of the week. Therefore the evening of the seventh day of the week is the end of the seventh day while the next morning signifies the beginning of the first day of the week.

YHWH_will_uplift said:
While it might not seem like such a big deal I feel that many of us have been so indoctrinated by the way the world defines a day that we neglect that God already defines a day for us and shows where to find the answer in His Word and when the day begins and ends. Consider the following diagram:

Morning to Evening; Sunrise to Sunset = 12 Hours = 1 Day

Day 01|Night 01|Day 02|Night 02|
M__E[T]_____[T]M__E[T]M___E[T]

The above gives us 24 hours between day (12 Hours Light) and night (12 Hours Darkness) for each day and night. This is a grand total of 2 Days and 2 Nights. Here the day and the night are separated perfectly as God planned.

Evening to Evening; Sunset to Sunset = 24 Hours = 1 Day

Day 01.........................|Day 02.........................|
E__[T]__N__[T]__M__E__[T]__N__[T]__M__E

Here we have a complete nightmare! We have the same number of hours but, day and night are mixed which goes against God's command to separate the light from the darkness.

Morning to morning; Sunrise to Sunrise = 24 Hours = 1 Day

Day 01.......................|Day 02.......................|
M__E[T]___N____[T]M__E__E[T]__N____[T]

The nightmare continues here just as it began with the evening to evening example.

Unfortunately our midnight to midnight timekeeping system does not aid in freeing us from the hellish nightmare of the evening to evening or morning to morning examples: only the morning to evening example aligns with scripture and clearly defines and separates the day from the night. The other systems mix light and darkness so that one cannot tell the day from the night.

Legend Key:
[T] = Twilight
M = Morning
E = Evening
N = Night

gadar perets · Mar 28, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
Sorry brother this is very relevant as scripture exposes the error in your reasoning. The Sun did not section off anything as it never existed until the fourth day of the week, the same logic applies to the Moon and the stars: anything beyond that is an attempt to stretch or distort the clear truth. Morning does not equal sunrise as sunrise is literally the Sun rising; evening does not equal sunset as sunset is literally the Sun setting; morning does not rise or set just as evening does not rise or set. Moses makes this point very clear when he says Morning and Evening = 1 Day and, before this he informs us that God said Light = Day therefore: Light = Morning and Evening = Day.

I didn't say any of these things in my post. You just love twisting my words.

You provided Exodus 12:6 and Numbers 28:4 for the scripture lol! Educate yourself and see how foolish you sound telling me multiple times I did not provide you with scripture when you provided it for yourself and the rest of us following this thread:

My usage of twilight/between the evenings
Exodus 12:6 You must care for it until the fourteenth day of the month, when the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel will slaughter the animals at twilight.

Alternate usage of twilight/between the evenings
Numbers 28:4 You are to offer one lamb in the morning and the other at twilight,

Surely you jest. You think because you quote some version that uses "twilight" that that means "between the evenings" = twilight. LOL.

The reason you can't understand or comprehend is simple:
"And the light shineth in the darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not."
John 1:5

OK. We're done. You just referred to the Holy Spirit in me as "darkness". May YHWH have mercy on you.

YHWH_will_uplift · Mar 28, 2019

gadar perets said:
I didn't say any of these things in my post. You just love twisting my words.

Well please point it out as I have kindly cited all of our conversations in completion. And others may read our conversation beginning from page four of this thread.

gadar perets said:
Surely you jest. You think because you quote some version that uses "twilight" that that means "between the evenings" = twilight. LOL.

If you clicked on those passages you would see that they actually take you to the original site which shows parallel English translations equating twilight with between the evenings.

gadar perets said:
OK. We're done. You just referred to the Holy Spirit in me as "darkness". May YHWH have mercy on you.

I said you're in the darkness. I never said anything about the Holy Spirit. Please educate yourself on this further by reading the story in the New Testament where the scribes and the Pharisees were guilty of this blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by saying Jesus did His miracles by the power of Beelzebub.

pinacled · Mar 28, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
New revelation has been given to me in the understanding of Genesis 1:1-5. I have argued in the past with some that the day begins in the morning: I still hold to that. In the past I was mistaken for falsely correlating the evening with Darkness/Night. Why does it matter?

God tells us plainly through Moses that He separated the Light from the Darkness: this is to indicate that these two periods of time are never to be mixed. In Genesis 1:14-19 we read that the sun rules over the day and the moon and stars rule over the night and, they divide the light from the darkness (cf. Psalms 136:7-9). The sun rules the day meaning that the morning is when the Sun rises from the east to mark the beginning of the day; noon is when the Sun is at its highest point in the sky to mark the middle of the day in the north; and, evening is when the Sun sets in the west to mark the end of the day: therefore Evening and Morning are only part of the time when the Sun is out. By the time the Sun is completely gone then it is no longer evening (i.e. the day time) but, night time.

As I did more research into the length of a day I found that during the period of Christ and all the way back to Adam a day was measured by counting the time between sunrise and sunset. Jesus' statement of 1 Day = 12 Hours (see John 11:9) means that a day is always twelve hours in length and this number of hours never changes: it is the length of each of these hours which change throughout the year: in like fashion the number of months in a year is always twelve and never changes: for these numbers are according to twelve sons of Israel (1 Chronicles 27:1-15) but, the length of each month does. This same logic applies to the Night as well.

Upon further research I learned that Babylon and Egypt were the first two nations to mix the periods of day and night together: and it is to these two whom we owe our modern reckoning of 24 Hours = 1 Day. The problem with this is that God separated the Light from the Darkness: therefore what God has divided let no man unite; and what God has united let no man divide. This mixing of Light and Darkness by the Bablyonians and Egyptians is one of many reasons why God tells us to not go back to them and to come out of them. It is clear from scripture that God never included the night time to be counted with the day time! And how we have missed such an obvious fact! Therefore we sin if we measure a day from sunset to sunset; sunrise to sunrise; midnight to midnight; or day and night: scripture tells us that a day is always measured from sunrise to sunset:

Evening and Morning = 1 Day
Sunset and Sunrise = 1 Day

How do we correlate Jesus' statement with what we read from Enoch who says that 1 Day = 18 Parts (1 Enoch 72:10, 12, 14, 16, 18, 20, 22, 24, 26, 28, 30, 32, 34) and Moses who says that 1 Day = 36 Moments (Jasher 88:63-64)? The heavenly lights travel in a circle as observation of their motions in the sky reveals that all objects conform to the shape of area they are traversing. The heavenly lights then traverse a circle of 360° in circumference therefore:

360° ÷ 12 Months = 30° per Month
360° ÷ 04 Seasons = 90° per Season

Each degree therefore equals one day:

360 Days ÷ 12 Months = 30 Days per Month
360 Days ÷ 04 Seasons = 90 Days per Season

The day is a smaller circle within the year which we may divide up in like fashion as the year:

36 Moments ÷ 18 Parts = 2 Moments per Part
36 Moments ÷ 12 Hours = 3 Moments per Hour
36 Moments ÷ 4 Divisions = 9 Moments per Division

In short this means that moments are greater unit of time than parts. Parts are a greater unit of time than hours. And hours are a lesser unit of time than that of parts and moments. It stands then that we must not measure the hours according to our modern reckoning of the hour which we inherited from Babylon as nature has proven that an hour is not always sixty minutes in duration. Instead let us just look up at the sky as our forefather Adam did.

What this means for us concerning the Sabbath Day is that we only observe the Sabbath when the Sun is out and rules the Day/Light.

In conclusion it is clear that the day begins in the morning and not the evening: for the evening is the end of the day while the morning is the beginning of the day. I have provided clear evidence that the sun and moon and stars keep track of the hours, days, and years by acting as signs for the seasons: nothing else. We are never to mix the Light and Dark seasons together to make up one day. The only acceptable form of measuring the day is from the time between sunrise and sunset. Keeping track of the day according to scripture is much simpler than tracking it the way man has failed to do many times.

I will praise you to the heights, my God, the king;
I will bless your name forever and ever.
2 Every day I will bless you;
I will praise your name forever and ever.
3 Great is Adonai and greatly to be praised;
his greatness is beyond all searching out.
4 Each generation will praise your works to the next
and proclaim your mighty acts.
5 I will meditate on the glorious splendor
of your majesty and on the story of your wonders.
6 People will speak of your awesome power,
and I will tell of your great deeds.
7 They will gush forth the fame of your abounding goodness,
and they will sing of your righteousness.
8 Adonai is merciful and compassionate,
slow to anger and great in grace.

7th<444
1rst day<444(1)
<444(2)
2nd day<444(3)
<444(4)
3rd day<444(5)

half way<444(1)

4th day<444(2)
<444(3)
5th day<444(4)
<444(5)
6th day<444(6)
<444(half that is left over. The Veil between the 7th day
6th doubled being the 7th day
7th<444

7th day wrapping the front and back of the week.
24 elders to the Crown of thorns.

North 2 and 20
Lamp stand

40 Sockets of Silver

(1)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards
(2)7777 <curtain
-8tenons
-4 boards
(3)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards
(4)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards
(5)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards

South 2 and 20
Lamp Stand
40 Sockets of Silver

(1)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards
(2)7777 <curtain
-8tenons
-4 boards
(3)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards
(4)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards
(5)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards

When you come to the Land and you plant any food tree, you shall surely block its fruit [from use]; it shall be blocked from you [from use] for three years, not to be eaten.

And in the fourth year, all its fruit shall be holy, a praise to the Lord.

And in the fifth year, you may eat its fruit; [do this, in order] to increase its produce for you. I am the Lord, your God.
10}{8[-7777()7777-]8}{10
10}{8[-7777()7777-]8}{10
10}{8[-7777()7777-]8}{10
10}{8[-7777()7777-]8}{10
10}{8[-7777()7777-]8}{10

The clasp of gold

{10'10} {10'10}
{10'10} {10'10}

{10'10} {10'10}
{10'10} {10'10}
{10'10} {10'10}

The 120 days(gold and silver
(40)16
(40)16
(40)16

The 120 days(gold and silver
drawn out of the water
3 mens treasure brought up three times a yr for three yrs

(40)16 (40)16 (40)16
(40)16 (40)16 (40)16
(40)16 (40)16 (40)16

But the fruit of the Spirit is
love, joy, peace,
forbearance, kindness, goodness,
faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

Against such things there is no law.

7th<444

1rst day<444(1)(1)7777 <curtain

<444(2)(2)7777 <curtain

2nd day<444(3)(3)7777 <curtain

<444(4)(4)7777 <curtain

3rd day<444(5)(5)7777 <curtain

<444(1)

4th day<444(2)(1)7777 <curtain

<444(3)(2)7777 <curtain

5th day<444(4)(3)7777 <curtain

<444(5)(4)7777 <curtain

6th day<444(6)(5)7777 <curtain
<444(half that is left over. The Veil between the 7th day
6th doubled being the 7th day

7th<444

}Berei****h (In the beginning...) (Genesis)}1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,and the Word was God.

Shemoth (The names...) (Exodus)}2 He was with God in the beginning.

Vayiqra (And He called...) (Leviticus)}3 All things came to be through him,
and without him nothing made had being.

Bamidbar (In the wilderness...) (Numbers)}4 In him was life,
and the life was the light of mankind.

Devarim (The words...) (Deuteronomy)}5 The light shines in the darkness,
and the darkness has not suppressed it.

If you are looking for a numerical Harmony in the Terrain of the Torah. Its best to apply a study of all the provisions freely offered..
Think of what the tzadik(disciples mentioned concerning the day-star rising in the heart in comparison to the 4th day being a 4th yr of Holy praise.
From there consider how to continue your walk in prayer with a strength in forgiveness.

Blessings Always.

YHWH_will_uplift · Mar 28, 2019

pinacled said:
I will praise you to the heights, my God, the king;
I will bless your name forever and ever.
2 Every day I will bless you;
I will praise your name forever and ever.
3 Great is Adonai and greatly to be praised;
his greatness is beyond all searching out.
4 Each generation will praise your works to the next
and proclaim your mighty acts.
5 I will meditate on the glorious splendor
of your majesty and on the story of your wonders.
6 People will speak of your awesome power,
and I will tell of your great deeds.
7 They will gush forth the fame of your abounding goodness,
and they will sing of your righteousness.
8 Adonai is merciful and compassionate,
slow to anger and great in grace.

7th<444
1rst day<444(1)
<444(2)
2nd day<444(3)
<444(4)
3rd day<444(5)

half way<444(1)

4th day<444(2)
<444(3)
5th day<444(4)
<444(5)
6th day<444(6)
<444(half that is left over. The Veil between the 7th day
6th doubled being the 7th day
7th<444

7th day wrapping the front and back of the week.
24 elders to the Crown of thorns.

North 2 and 20
Lamp stand

40 Sockets of Silver

(1)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards
(2)7777 <curtain
-8tenons
-4 boards
(3)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards
(4)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards
(5)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards

South 2 and 20
Lamp Stand
40 Sockets of Silver

(1)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards
(2)7777 <curtain
-8tenons
-4 boards
(3)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards
(4)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards
(5)7777 <curtain
-8 tenons
-4 boards

When you come to the Land and you plant any food tree, you shall surely block its fruit [from use]; it shall be blocked from you [from use] for three years, not to be eaten.

And in the fourth year, all its fruit shall be holy, a praise to the Lord.

And in the fifth year, you may eat its fruit; [do this, in order] to increase its produce for you. I am the Lord, your God.
10}{8[-7777()7777-]8}{10
10}{8[-7777()7777-]8}{10
10}{8[-7777()7777-]8}{10
10}{8[-7777()7777-]8}{10
10}{8[-7777()7777-]8}{10

The clasp of gold

{10'10} {10'10}
{10'10} {10'10}

{10'10} {10'10}
{10'10} {10'10}
{10'10} {10'10}

The 120 days(gold and silver
(40)16
(40)16
(40)16

The 120 days(gold and silver
drawn out of the water
3 mens treasure brought up three times a yr for three yrs

(40)16 (40)16 (40)16
(40)16 (40)16 (40)16
(40)16 (40)16 (40)16

But the fruit of the Spirit is
love, joy, peace,
forbearance, kindness, goodness,
faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

Against such things there is no law.

7th<444

1rst day<444(1)(1)7777 <curtain

<444(2)(2)7777 <curtain

2nd day<444(3)(3)7777 <curtain

<444(4)(4)7777 <curtain

3rd day<444(5)(5)7777 <curtain

<444(1)

4th day<444(2)(1)7777 <curtain

<444(3)(2)7777 <curtain

5th day<444(4)(3)7777 <curtain

<444(5)(4)7777 <curtain

6th day<444(6)(5)7777 <curtain
<444(half that is left over. The Veil between the 7th day
6th doubled being the 7th day

7th<444

}Berei****h (In the beginning...) (Genesis)}1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God,and the Word was God.

Shemoth (The names...) (Exodus)}2 He was with God in the beginning.

Vayiqra (And He called...) (Leviticus)}3 All things came to be through him,
and without him nothing made had being.

Bamidbar (In the wilderness...) (Numbers)}4 In him was life,
and the life was the light of mankind.

Devarim (The words...) (Deuteronomy)}5 The light shines in the darkness,
and the darkness has not suppressed it.

If you are looking for a numerical Harmony in the Terrain of the Torah. Its best to apply a study of all the provisions offered..
Think of what the tzadik(disciples mentioned concerning the day-star rising in the heart in comparison to the 4th day being a 4th yr of Holy praise.
From there consider how to continue your walk in prayer with a strength in forgiveness.

Blessings Always.

This is very deep brother thank you so much! I will study it more closely as I do not understand it all yet!

gadar perets · Mar 28, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
I said you're in the darkness. I never said anything about the Holy Spirit. Please educate yourself on this further by reading the story in the New Testament where the scribes and the Pharisees were guilty of this blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by saying Jesus did His miracles by the power of Beelzebub.

I have been brought out of darkness into the light through the light of the world who lives in me. You foolishly applied a verse pertaining to unbelievers to a believer.

YHWH_will_uplift · Mar 28, 2019

gadar perets said:
I have been brought out of darkness into the light through the light of the world who lives in me. You foolishly applied a verse pertaining to unbelievers to a believer.

Anyways examine the truth for yourself with those links I provided: it's on you if you want to close your eyes and ears to the truth. You're still in the dark brother.

YHWH_will_uplift said:
You provided Exodus 12:6 and Numbers 28:4 for the scripture lol! Educate yourself and see how foolish you sound telling me multiple times I did not provide you with scripture when you provided it for yourself and the rest of us following this thread:

My usage of twilight/between the evenings
Exodus 12:6 You must care for it until the fourteenth day of the month, when the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel will slaughter the animals at twilight.

Alternate usage of twilight/between the evenings
Numbers 28:4 You are to offer one lamb in the morning and the other at twilight,

These links show twilight = between the evenings by comparing them with parallel English translations.

pinacled · Mar 28, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
This is very deep brother thank you so much! I will study it more closely as I do not understand it all yet!

freely received, freely given.

Mercy74 · Mar 28, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
Well please point it out as I have kindly cited all of our conversations in completion. And others may read our conversation beginning from page four of this thread.

If you clicked on those passages you would see that they actually take you to the original site which shows parallel English translations equating twilight with between the evenings.

I said you're in the darkness. I never said anything about the Holy Spirit. Please educate yourself on this further by reading the story in the New Testament where the scribes and the Pharisees were guilty of this blasphemy against the Holy Spirit by saying Jesus did His miracles by the power of Beelzebub.

YHWH separated the light from darkness, YHWH saw that this light was good! If this beautiful light that shined, YHWH separated from darkness (Genesis 1:5); why did the sun and moon need to separate the lights from darkness? (Genesis 1:14-19) Does the sun really sit down or rise up? I think it is poetic language to say "sunrise" or "sunset" . Those of us that have been enlightened understand the earth actually spins on it's axis to mark day and night. Finally I like how you surmise that evening precedes sunset and morning precedes sunrise; how so? - no mention of night or darkness the first six days. There were two lights made, to govern day and night, the sun is a star, the moon is not a star. (Genesis 1:16) Please examine Genesis 1:16 carefully, it is written after he made these two lights "He also made the stars" , what are these two lights that govern day and night.

YHWH_will_uplift · Mar 28, 2019

Mercy74 said:
YHWH separated the light from darkness, YHWH saw that this light was good! If this beautiful light that shined, YHWH separated from darkness (Genesis 1:5); why did the sun and moon need to separate the lights from darkness? (Genesis 1:14-19)

The passage makes it clear that God gave the luminaries rulership over the day and the night and, this rulership is connected with division to further emphasize the authority given to them by God. And this division is proven when God says that the lights will be for signs, seasons, days, and years. Therefore God is showing that their authority to rule and to divide the day from the night comes from His authority as He created those great lights and gave them their light, for God is Light: therefore God proved His power over them as He proved His power over the Light and the Darkness when He divided one from the other after forming them (see Genesis 1:1-5; 14-19 cf. Isaiah 45:7).

Mercy74 said:
Does the sun really sit down or rise up? I think it is poetic language to say "sunrise" or "sunset" .

When Joshua commanded the Sun and Moon to stop moving did God stop the Sun and Moon from moving or the earth (Joshua 10:12-14)? How do we prove the Sun, Moon, and stars move but, not the earth? After God created the heavens and the earth He created the waters, darkness, and light (Genesis 1:1-4); only God's Spirit was moving at this time (Genesis 1:2); after God divided the light from the darkness day and night passed (Genesis 1:3-5): therefore we may infer that in order to arrive to the next day, light and darkness had to move and transition. After God created the heavens and the earth did He command the earth to move? No, He commanded the waters to move in order for the earth to appear and, for the earth to bring forth fruits, plants, trees, grass, and herbs (Genesis 1:9-13). By the time God creates the Sun, Moon and stars, light and darkness have not stopped moving. Therefore we may conclude that as light and darkness move: the Sun moves with the light and, the Moon and stars move with the darkness. During this time the earth has not moved its position at all: therefore we must conclude that the earth does not move. In conclusion the waters move; light and darkness move; the Sun moves with the light; the Moon and stars move with the darkness; and the earth does not move while everything else moves around it.

Mercy74 said:
Those of us that have been enlightened understand the earth actually spins on it's axis to mark day and night.

God is Light so, all true enlightenment comes from Him. As to whom you and others received your enlightenment from...it does not sound like it was from God. Please read the evidence above for proof that the earth does not move.

Mercy74 said:
Finally I like how you surmise that evening precedes sunset and morning precedes sunrise; how so? - no mention of night or darkness the first six days.

Morning precedes sunrise just as evening precedes sunset because the Sun, Moon and stars did not exist until they were created on the fourth day of the week. You can also observe this just by looking at nature: {twilight (dawn) precedes morning, morning precedes sunrise, sunrise precedes evening, evening precedes sunset, sunset precedes twilight (dusk), twilight (dusk) precedes darkness, darkness precedes twilight (dawn)...}

Mercy74 said:
There were two lights made, to govern day and night, the sun is a star, the moon is not a star. (Genesis 1:16) Please examine Genesis 1:16 carefully, it is written after he made these two lights "He also made the stars" , what are these two lights that govern day and night.

This is not scriptural as you are mixing up God's definition for what the Sun, Moon, and stars are with man's definition of what they are. God clearly says that the Sun and Moon are two great lights, and specifically names the other lights stars (Genesis 1:16). King David understood this as well (Psalms 136:7-9; 148:3).

Mercy74 · Mar 29, 2019

YHWH_will_uplift said:
The passage makes it clear that God gave the luminaries rulership over the day and the night and, this rulership is connected with division to further emphasize the authority given to them by God. And this division is proven when God says that the lights will be for signs, seasons, days, and years. Therefore God is showing that their authority to rule and to divide the day from the night comes from His authority as He created those great lights and gave them their light, for God is Light: therefore God proved His power over them as He proved His power over the Light and the Darkness when He divided one from the other after forming them (see Genesis 1:1-5; 14-19 cf. Isaiah 45:7).

When Joshua commanded the Sun and Moon to stop moving did God stop the Sun and Moon from moving or the earth (Joshua 10:12-14)? How do we prove the Sun, Moon, and stars move but, not the earth? After God created the heavens and the earth He created the waters, darkness, and light (Genesis 1:1-4); only God's Spirit was moving at this time (Genesis 1:2); after God divided the light from the darkness day and night passed (Genesis 1:3-5): therefore we may infer that in order to arrive to the next day, light and darkness had to move and transition. After God created the heavens and the earth did He command the earth to move? No, He commanded the waters to move in order for the earth to appear and, for the earth to bring forth fruits, plants, trees, grass, and herbs (Genesis 1:9-13). By the time God creates the Sun, Moon and stars, light and darkness have not stopped moving. Therefore we may conclude that as light and darkness move: the Sun moves with the light and, the Moon and stars move with the darkness. During this time the earth has not moved its position at all: therefore we must conclude that the earth does not move. In conclusion the waters move; light and darkness move; the Sun moves with the light; the Moon and stars move with the darkness; and the earth does not move while everything else moves around it.

God is Light so, all true enlightenment comes from Him. As to whom you and others received your enlightenment from...it does not sound like it was from God. Please read the evidence above for proof that the earth does not move.

Morning precedes sunrise just as evening precedes sunset because the Sun, Moon and stars did not exist until they were created on the fourth day of the week. You can also observe this just by looking at nature: {twilight (dawn) precedes morning, morning precedes sunrise, sunrise precedes evening, evening precedes sunset, sunset precedes twilight (dusk), twilight (dusk) precedes darkness, darkness precedes twilight (dawn)...}

This is not scriptural as you are mixing up God's definition for what the Sun, Moon, and stars are with man's definition of what they are. God clearly says that the Sun and Moon are two great lights, and specifically names the other lights stars (Genesis 1:16). King David understood this as well (Psalms 136:7-9; 148:3).

Where is it written that G-d gave the luminaries their light? You make an inference then try to establish an "hypothesis" based on an assumption. The sun is a source of light, the moon reflects light; this is not inference, this is fact. It is written " He ALSO made the stars" at the end of verse Genesis 1:16. The word "also" means "in addition to", thus those great and lesser lights can not refer to the sun and moon; even if we were to ignore the obvious fact that the moon reflects light from the sun on the earth. G-d never said that the sun and moon were lights, Moses said that G-d made two lights to govern the day and night. Moses ALSO says that G-d made the stars ALSO; also means in addition to, the sun is a STAR or gaseous source of light. Now by the naked eye or without scientific tool (telescope) it appears by observation the sunrise or sunset, which makes this phrase poetic in nature. However after using a "magnifying glass" that reflects light, we can all properly observe and verify that it is truly the sun that stands still, and the earth and moon that orbits around the sun. Are you still making your inferences or observation through a "dark glass" so that you only know or understand in part? (1 Corinthians 13:12) Where is it written that G-d stopped the sun and moon from moving? Futhermore where is it written that light and darkness move? You make alot of inferences to establish a faulty premise. It is written that G-d formed the light and darkness, to form anything, means to give it shape or boundaries. It is ALSO written the earth was void; in darkess; formless or empty. After light shines brightly, light and darkness are given form or shape, what is unseen becomes clearly seen (Romans 1:20).

YHWH_will_uplift · Mar 29, 2019

Mercy74 said:
Where is it written that G-d gave the luminaries their light? You make an inference then try to establish an "hypothesis" based on an assumption. The sun is a source of light, the moon reflects light; this is not inference, this is fact. It is written " He ALSO made the stars" at the end of verse Genesis 1:16. The word "also" means "in addition to", thus those great and lesser lights can not refer to the sun and moon; even if we were to ignore the obvious fact that the moon reflects light from the sun on the earth. G-d never said that the sun and moon were lights, Moses said that G-d made two lights to govern the day and night. Moses ALSO says that G-d made the stars ALSO; also means in addition to, the sun is a STAR or gaseous source of light. Now by the naked eye or without scientific tool (telescope) it appears by observation the sunrise or sunset, which makes this phrase poetic in nature. However after using a "magnifying glass" that reflects light, we can all properly observe and verify that it is truly the sun that stands still, and the earth and moon that orbits around the sun. Are you still making your inferences or observation through a "dark glass" so that you only know or understand in part? (1 Corinthians 13:12) Where is it written that G-d stopped the sun and moon from moving? Futhermore where is it written that light and darkness move? You make alot of inferences to establish a faulty premise. It is written that G-d formed the light and darkness, to form anything, means to give it shape or boundaries. It is ALSO written the earth was void; in darkess; formless or empty. After light shines brightly, light and darkness are given form or shape, what is unseen becomes clearly seen (Romans 1:20).

Did you read anything I wrote carefully? I provided scripture to backup each point I made please reread my post which you quoted in it's entirety.

YHWH_will_uplift · Mar 29, 2019

Mercy74 said:
Where is it written that G-d gave the luminaries their light? You make an inference then try to establish an "hypothesis" based on an assumption. The sun is a source of light, the moon reflects light; this is not inference, this is fact.

"And God said, 'Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth': and it was so. And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: He made the stars also. And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, and to rule over the day and the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. And the evening and the morning were the fourth day."
Genesis 1:14-19

God clearly says the lights are to give light upon the earth: therefore the Sun, Moon and stars each give off their own light. Moses then clarifies that among these lights God made two of them great: in the day we see one of the two great lights in the sky all the time...the Sun...and at night we never see the Sun but, the Moon with the stars (see also Psalms 136:7-9).

"This then is the message which we have heard of Him, and declare unto you, that God is Light, and in Him is no darkness at all."
John 1:5

Because God is Light and made all things it stands that God is the source of all things including light: therefore the luminaries receive their light from God as He created them.

Mercy74 said:
It is written " He ALSO made the stars" at the end of verse Genesis 1:16. The word "also" means "in addition to", thus those great and lesser lights can not refer to the sun and moon; even if we were to ignore the obvious fact that the moon reflects light from the sun on the earth. G-d never said that the sun and moon were lights, Moses said that G-d made two lights to govern the day and night. Moses ALSO says that G-d made the stars ALSO; also means in addition to, the sun is a STAR or gaseous source of light.

"[...]He made the stars also[...]" means that He made the stars in addition to the two great lights which is consistent with what God said earlier, "And God said, 'Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: and let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth'[...]". Therefore God made two great lights and He made the stars in addition to these great lights: it does not say that God made a great Star named the Sun, and the Moon: and the stars in addition to the great star. And God clearly states that the lights each give off their own light to shine upon the earth.

Light produces light. Gas produces gas. Simple.

Mercy74 said:
Now by the naked eye or without scientific tool (telescope) it appears by observation the sunrise or sunset, which makes this phrase poetic in nature. However after using a "magnifying glass" that reflects light, we can all properly observe and verify that it is truly the sun that stands still, and the earth and moon that orbits around the sun. Are you still making your inferences or observation through a "dark glass" so that you only know or understand in part? (1 Corinthians 13:12)

God says the Sun rises and sets through the prophets:

"For from the rising of the Sun even unto the going down of the same[...]"
Malachi 1:11

"That they may know from the rising of the Sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I Am the YHWH, and there is none else."
Isaiah 45:6

"And the YHWH spake unto Moses and unto Aaron saying, 'Every man of the children of Israel shall pitch by his own standard, with the ensign of their father's house: far off about the tabernacle of the congregation shall they pitch. And on the east side toward the rising of the Sun'[...]"
Numbers 2:1-3

"I have raised up one from the north, and he shall come: from the rising of the Sun[...]"
Isaiah 41:25

These are direct quotes from God's mouth that the Sun moves...are you going to be foolish enough to argue against them? If anyone should know about the Sun it would be the Creator of it, and that Creator is God, not man.

Mercy74 said:
Where is it written that G-d stopped the sun and moon from moving?

Read Joshua 10:12-14 to see that God commanded the Sun and Moon to stop moving, not the earth.

Mercy74 said:
Futhermore where is it written that light and darkness move? You make alot of inferences to establish a faulty premise.

Have you heard of measuring light speed? Light moves in waves and particles. As colors light may be associated with white while darkness may be associated with black: therefore since we have proven that light has a color and moves, it stands that we have proven darkness has a color and moves. In scripture we read that God created the Light and the Darkness: therefore in order for Light to overcome the Dark it must expand and grow its light: and this is accomplished by light moving; the same logic applies to the Darkness.

Mercy74 said:
It is written that G-d formed the light and darkness, to form anything, means to give it shape or boundaries. It is ALSO written the earth was void; in darkess; formless or empty. After light shines brightly, light and darkness are given form or shape, what is unseen becomes clearly seen (Romans 1:20).

Have you ever played with Play-doh as a child? If you have then you'll recall that it has no form to begin with: therefore the user must give it form. This same reasoning applies to the earth after God created it: it was a large mass of Play-doh with no discernable form: therefore God later gave it form. It matters not how much darkness or light surrounds an object with no discernable form: it will always be formless. The void simply refers to the earth not having any life at the time it was created.

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