the centurion's confession

ewq1938 said:

It's more sensible then assuming Roman troops knew the Hebrew prophecies. I have never heard a scholar or biblical teacher that thinks they did.

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So it makes more sense to believe they didn't know, than they did know; although Scripture clearly testifies to the fact that this group of soldier's behavior was "outside the norm" for how they conducted this crucifixion?

Would you put it past God to have used this specific set of soldiers to perform this task? (Don't confuse the matter by assuming I'm saying the whole army knew this.) No, I do agree there; the majority of the army were pagans.

Yet there is an interesting passage in the book of Corinthians:

1 Corinthians 2:7-8 - Now this is a fascinating passage. I'd never noticed this before as related to the context of the pouring out of the Holy Spirit; but it explains why the Romans crucified Christ.

"… we speak (present indicative active voice - means present tense is being currently accomplished by the subject of the verb tied to the time of speaking) the wisdom of God upon the mystery, the hidden (perfect participle passive - perfect participle stresses the state brought about by the finished result of an action. Passive voice means the action was performed by someone other than the subject.) which God ordained before the world unto our glory:"

So what this verse means, is that Paul is speaking of a mystery that had been hidden; but is no longer hidden, which God had ordained before the world unto our glory.

What had God ordained before the world? The mystery.

Why is it a glory unto us? It's a glory unto us, because God has chosen to reveal what had previously been hidden.

When did He do that? He did it at Pentecost. The agent of action of the revealing of that mystery is the Holy Spirit.

The next verse explains the result: "Which none of the princes of this world knew because if they had known, they wouldn't have crucified the Lord of glory."

This here verse gives one fascinating insight as to why the Holy Spirit was not poured out prior to the resurrection. Because if that mystery had been known by humanity because of the pouring forth of the Spirit, the atonement would have never happened because those appointed to the task would not have performed it.

Fascinating - absolutely fascinating!

Another indicator here that at least some of these soldiers became believers "after the fact" - if they weren't already "half way there" to begin with.

Erik Nelson said:

maybe important to acknowledge God's prophetic foreknowledge of events, rather than attributing it all to witting human action?

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Yet to acknowledge that God may have revealed to certain humans (some way or another) and this is what attributes to their "witting human action"; isn't negating God's prophetic foreknowledge of events. God's normal "modes operands" is that He very often uses people He's somehow revealed these things to, to make them come to pass.

So why is it so "preposterous" for some to assume that God did not also do this with those assigned to the execution? How or where they got this information; we are not told - but I still believe that at least a few someone's were "in the know" and we see this by their actions.

The "usefulness" of "military intelligence"?

How they may have been "in the know" I think had to do with events regarding revolts that had transpired in the year prior. Remember Barabbas was in prison for sedition and murder and the Scriptures tell us that Pilate and Herod were "at enmity" with each other prior to the trial of Jesus. Yet now Herod is happy with Pilate because of what's happened; but this certainly doesn't mean that Pilate could not see they were setting him up.

So in these political games; it certainly could have been very plausible that certain of the Roman authorities could have sought out "religious information" they could use to their advantage against the Jews.

Some of what Pilate knew does actually surface in Jesus's trial:

28 Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover.

29 Pilate then went out unto them, and said, What accusation bring ye against this man?

(Pilate in Pilate's head - I know this dude is not a criminal. Your stupid temple is right out my front gate. I know what's going on down there.)

30 They answered and said unto him, If he were not a malefactor, we would not have delivered him up unto thee.

(B.S - ya 'all a bunch of liars. I know because I've dealt with your antics before. I've been called back to Rome once already because of your evil scheming and the useful idiots you stir up to revolt; "paid protesters"!)

31 Then said Pilate unto them, Take ye him, and judge him according to your law. The Jews therefore said unto him, It is not lawful for us to put any man to death:

(I already know that! I just wanna crucify your dumb azzes! So come on, go kill the dude yourselves!)

32 That the saying of Jesus might be fulfilled, which he spake, signifying what death he should die.

33 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews?

"Aren't you the king of the Jews?" (is how Pilate actually phrased it). (I know what's going on around here. I've even walked down from Antonia a couple of times to listen to you myself. Any military intelligence understands that keeping your ear to the ground and knowing what's going on around you and how the culture and religion play into it - keeps more of your soldiers alive!)

34 Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?

Can't ya just picture the look on Pilate's face? (What do I look like to you? Come on Jesus; I know you're smarter and more aware than that!)

35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?

(Rhetorical question; Pilate already knows Jesus hasn't done anything. Does Pilate have "insider information" from proselyte military centurions? Tis not only a possibility, but highly probable; because of the political situation, this is information Pilate would have wanted to have. I (Pilate) already know. You've been around a couple of years now; that if you were preaching the overthrow of Rome, we would have picked you up already.)

36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

(Jesus is just confirming to Pilate that he is not a threat to Rome; which Pilate already knew this.)

37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

Pilate says: "You are a king than?"
Jesus replies: "You already said I'm a king. To this end I was born and for this cause I came into the world; (being "the king of the truth") that I should bear witness to the truth. Everyone that is of the truth hears my voice.

38 Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.

"What is truth" is a sort of reflective rhetorical question. (This guy is stated to be their king / their messiah. He talks about his kingdom being of some other world; not a threat to Rome. Even if I don't understand what this dude is talking about; he's said to have done a whole lot of things never to have been claimed by any of their other shifty messiahs. My wife is having nightmares and I even got centurions telling me this dude has raised their dead servants! I don't know what to believe; but I do know these idiots out here that brought him to me; sure as hell aren't telling the truth!)

"...I find no fault in him at all!"

So even now only from a militaristic / political stand point; do you get a clearer "big picture"? What these soldiers (or at least some of these soldiers) knew, we are not told; we can not assume they knew nothing though, especially based on knowledge that would have been sought for political purposes. We do know there were Roman military proselytes. Scripture tells us that.

So, don't you think it could be, there were particular Romans God put in positions of power for His purpose to frustrate the wicked Jewish leaders who would do all they could to break these prophecies? What do you think was the REAL reason the Jewish leaders wanted the legs broken. I'll bet you dimes to donuts it had nothing to do with leaving the bodies on the crosses for the sabbath.

Yet reading the accounts we see the actions of the Romans; even Pilate are very deliberate and so much so that they are pointedly "out of character" for what is known of the course of action these individuals usually take. That in and of itself is the result of God's binding Satan; which we can deduce from Scripture, happened the last day (Tuesday) after Jesus left the temple.

And the fact that these Romans are so "out of character" is what this verse in Luke is talking about.

Luke 21:25
And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity;

So yeah, I definitely still think there's more here than first meets the eye!