What has become of Christianity

ace of hearts said:

Is Christianity just another place to fill idle time? I really see no difference except arguing from the secular world.

What I'm trying to say I just don't see an assembly of believers in Jesus Christ. What I do see in religious assemblies is vanity and people at each others throats. Even churches belonging to the same control group won't associate. I talk about football, weather, vehicles, civil government issues, pets, general gossip, etc everywhere else. All I see at church is a teacher promoting something not wanting discussion or ill prepared for one, a community sing, and a sermon very few if any remember past the door, if that long and visiting with others about everything except God and His dear Son, Jesus. One pastor told me he's sometimes shocked by those conversations.

Please don't use this thread trying to fix me. I'm not trying to be fixed.

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Good topic/thread..
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I agree with your observation/main points.
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You seem to be serious about your faith and pursuing Christ.
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Many church goers are not like you.
They are satisfied where they are.
- Ok with "nicely packaged church services and
programs."
- Not interested going further..

ace of hearts said:

Is Christianity just another place to fill idle time? I really see no difference except arguing from the secular world.

What I'm trying to say I just don't see an assembly of believers in Jesus Christ. What I do see in religious assemblies is vanity and people at each others throats. Even churches belonging to the same control group won't associate. I talk about football, weather, vehicles, civil government issues, pets, general gossip, etc everywhere else. All I see at church is a teacher promoting something not wanting discussion or ill prepared for one, a community sing, and a sermon very few if any remember past the door, if that long and visiting with others about everything except God and His dear Son, Jesus. One pastor told me he's sometimes shocked by those conversations.

Please don't use this thread trying to fix me. I'm not trying to be fixed.

Click to expand...

I think the more we follow Christ, the more we will not want to focus on the things of this world (like football, etc.). We talk about what is in our heart. For me: All I want is Jesus. Sad to say that is not what most churches are trying to focus on these days. They are not all interested in helping their attendees to hand out tracts or to preach the gospel in their area, or to live holy, or to help the poor and or to teach how to love your enemies and to pray for one another and to pray for the salvation of souls around them. Following the Lord is not easy, and most are comfortable to sit in their church building every Sunday and stay in their comfort zones. Many (and not all) do not want to talk about Christ with others and or help those who are suffering. But in time, God will talk to the hearts of those believers who truly want to do good and right with the Lord. We cannot all go from zero to sixty over night in following the Lord. But God is patient. One will move beyond the man made organizations and simply follow Christ in time (if their heart is truly pure in following Jesus).

ace of hearts said:

One of the things I see at church is people being led away by some false doctrine mainly because they're not grounded in the faith.

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OK, I was waiting to be sure, but thought that was where you were headed with this. Do you mean certain doctrine other than yours is false? If so, that's an age old story, we all think that our doctrine is not the false, and theirs is, all depending what theirs is. If that's what you were getting at by:

ace of hearts said:

What I do see in religious assemblies is vanity and people at each others throats.

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Then yes of course they are going to be at each others throats. Sad truth is, some doctrine is not only wrong but very dangerous to teach. I personally would be at the throat of someone who is teaching certain what I call false doctrines as well....and we should be.

Mind if I ask what doctrine you are referring to as "false"?

I think many churches do a lot of good towards the poor and those in need. Many churches also teach solid doctrine and practice in accordance to their tradition. Many still preach against sin and admonish holiness.

However, one thing I've noticed is that sermons are typically more like self-help or motivational messages. Many are pleas for money.

So far, everything I've mentioned is pretty typical of American churches. However, I was troubled by the lack of something. I'm a veteran. I have PTSD. When trying to open up about my struggles and my condition, most of the time I'm told to just "pray", "trust the Lord", "think on heavenly things", etc. This rings hollow to a person struggling with PTSD or serious anxiety. Most don't realize that the trauma endured has changed the biochemical processes of the brain in such a way that the brain cannot properly process stress, immediately initiating one's "fight or flight" response. This is often uncontrollable, and your PTSD attack can already be in motion before you even realize it.

This left me feeling helpless. Also, the loud bang/clang music, screaming preaching, large shouting and hyper active crowd actually served to trigger me. This has led to me seeking out smaller "house church" gatherings with simple hymns, little to no music, and discussion based studies. Many say I'm "backslidden" or that I'm forsaking the assembly of believers. But, I'm a wreck for days when I go to the churches in my tradition (Pentecostal).

The house churches don't trigger me, and the teaching is deep and spiritually edifying. However, no one seems to know how to manage anxiety and PTSD beyond just praying that God take it away or heal me supernaturally.

I have a friend who isn't Christian, but has found a significant amount of peace and techniques for managing his PTSD through Yoga, Eastern meditation, and mantras. In desperation, I've tried the "meditation" and "mantras". To my amazement, my PTSD is far more manageable. Calming the mind from all the background chatter that takes place involuntarily throughout the day and grounding myself by being fully present in the moment rather than agonizing over the past or worrying about the future has helped me tremendously. My doctor actually applauded my searching saying that meditation, mantras, and yoga do wonders for health, both physical and mental. He encouraged that I continue to investigate these practices.

What troubles me is that Christianity has no real world application beyond hopes and dreams of heavenly glories that will one day be realized after death or upon Christ's coming. But if we're lucky, we might get a miracle and be healed of trauma. Yet Eastern religious practices actually do much measurable good in the here-and-now with so many of our troubles and anxiety.

I've found myself searching for the Christian equivalent to meditation and mantras. But, so far, I've found nothing similar.

Is Christianity become a faith of no real value in the daily struggles of those like me? Is it all hype and prosperity preaching, or dry liturgical traditions (no offense to my liturgy loving brethren, it's just not my thing). Was it ever a haven of peace and meditative tranquility?

OP said ...

"What I do see in religious assemblies is vanity and people at each others throats. Even churches belonging to the same control group won't associate."

I think that is a fair criticism. Christianity has tolerated a large number of warring denominations for a long time. I dont think the group structure will stand up to increased pressure. I think there is a big risk that many churches will see a large loss in membership, and many people will drop out of Christianity. Especially if persecution and adversity increase.

Please note rhat I did not pick on any denomination when I said this. It is happening across all branches of the Faith.

I dont agree with the critcism about church pastors. I have been fortunate to attend a Baptist Church and a Nazarene Church recently. All the pastors, both denominations, are making a mighty effort to stay true to God's word. They are doing a great job!

If i could pinpoint the problem, i would say that the People of God, i.e. all Christians, are not staying rooted in His Word. They are not opening their own Bibles and reading them every day. That is the beginning of a deeper faith! Unfortunately, people have become very busy and very stressed out. They are only absorbing bite-sized chunks of God's word, only sound bytes. That is simply not enough immersion in God's Word to grow and strengthen a deep faith.

We are reminded by The Book of Revelations ... those who hold true to real faith in Christ will be rewarded in the end. But now there is an ill wind blowing in the world, an unholy mixture of conflict, lies, greed, and bigotry. There is a big danger that many believers will shed their faith, and blow away like leaves in the wind.

Blessings!

Aquila0121 said:

I think many churches do a lot of good towards the poor and those in need. Many churches also teach solid doctrine and practice in accordance to their tradition. Many still preach against sin and admonish holiness.

However, one thing I've noticed is that sermons are typically more like self-help or motivational messages. Many are pleas for money.

So far, everything I've mentioned is pretty typical of American churches. However, I was troubled by the lack of something. I'm a veteran. I have PTSD. When trying to open up about my struggles and my condition, most of the time I'm told to just "pray", "trust the Lord", "think on heavenly things", etc. This rings hollow to a person struggling with PTSD or serious anxiety. Most don't realize that the trauma endured has changed the biochemical processes of the brain in such a way that the brain cannot properly process stress, immediately initiating one's "fight or flight" response. This is often uncontrollable, and your PTSD attack can already be in motion before you even realize it.

This left me feeling helpless. Also, the loud bang/clang music, screaming preaching, large shouting and hyper active crowd actually served to trigger me. This has led to me seeking out smaller "house church" gatherings with simple hymns, little to no music, and discussion based studies. Many say I'm "backslidden" or that I'm forsaking the assembly of believers. But, I'm a wreck for days when I go to the churches in my tradition (Pentecostal).

The house churches don't trigger me, and the teaching is deep and spiritually edifying. However, no one seems to know how to manage anxiety and PTSD beyond just praying that God take it away or heal me supernaturally.

I have a friend who isn't Christian, but has found a significant amount of peace and techniques for managing his PTSD through Yoga, Eastern meditation, and mantras. In desperation, I've tried the "meditation" and "mantras". To my amazement, my PTSD is far more manageable. Calming the mind from all the background chatter that takes place involuntarily throughout the day and grounding myself by being fully present in the moment rather than agonizing over the past or worrying about the future has helped me tremendously. My doctor actually applauded my searching saying that meditation, mantras, and yoga do wonders for health, both physical and mental. He encouraged that I continue to investigate these practices.

What troubles me is that Christianity has no real world application beyond hopes and dreams of heavenly glories that will one day be realized after death or upon Christ's coming. But if we're lucky, we might get a miracle and be healed of trauma. Yet Eastern religious practices actually do much measurable good in the here-and-now with so many of our troubles and anxiety.

I've found myself searching for the Christian equivalent to meditation and mantras. But, so far, I've found nothing similar.

Is Christianity become a faith of no real value in the daily struggles of those like me? Is it all hype and prosperity preaching, or dry liturgical traditions (no offense to my liturgy loving brethren, it's just not my thing). Was it ever a haven of peace and meditative tranquility?

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Yes, but modern western Christianity has for the most part abandoned the more contemplative aspects of Christianity and has taken up a very narrow and rigid view of many things, but there is a very rich tradition of more spiritual thought and practice throughout history. Look for books on the spiritual disciplines, such as Richard Foster's "Celebration of Discipline" and books by Henri Nouwen and Parker Palmer. You might also look into Richard Rohr, who has a daily meditation that he sends out and writes a good bit about contemplative Christian topics. You may also be able to find a Quaker group near you as their style of prayer can be more about sitting and listening to God rather than all the constant talk, so perhaps they would be more suitable than one of the "louder" denominations or churches.

I see a lot of secular actions being brought into today's "denominations" but that is not what I call Christianity. To me, Christianity means "Christ follower" and not some religion. Church in its truest sense is the followers of Christ. Church is also a gathering place for Christ followers to meet and greet and worship together. So I would say what is happening with Christianity today is not necessarily what's happening in a denomination or that building. Two separate issues IMHO

ace of hearts said:

Is Christianity just another place to fill idle time? I really see no difference except arguing from the secular world.

What I'm trying to say I just don't see an assembly of believers in Jesus Christ. What I do see in religious assemblies is vanity and people at each others throats. Even churches belonging to the same control group won't associate. I talk about football, weather, vehicles, civil government issues, pets, general gossip, etc everywhere else. All I see at church is a teacher promoting something not wanting discussion or ill prepared for one, a community sing, and a sermon very few if any remember past the door, if that long and visiting with others about everything except God and His dear Son, Jesus. One pastor told me he's sometimes shocked by those conversations.

Please don't use this thread trying to fix me. I'm not trying to be fixed.

Click to expand...

Admittedly much Christian teaching and preaching and many worship services do seem more like just going through the motions rather than having any specific purpose and some do seem to forget why they showed up at all now and then. But do not assume it has no benefit or purpose.

According to Matthew, Jesus said: "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." And the writer of Hebrews clearly stated that we should not neglect meeting together. But that church building and weekly worship service or Sunday School class is not the Church. It is only a gathering place for the Church even as some have met and accepted the Christ in the midst of it.

IMO, Christians gather together for the purpose of building each other up, to reinforce each other and others in need of prayer, and strengthen the body to be in the world. That happens regardless of whether we personally feel edified by the experience.

And when we are then outside the gathering place, we are the hands and feet and head and voice etc. of the Christ. We live as Christ would have us live, be an example of a blessed soul, accept the leading of the Holy Spirit when somebody is ready to meet the living Christ. In other words we are to be His Church through which God loves the world.

We are the Church whether or not we go to a church building on Saturday or Sunday or whenever. But, IMO, it is much more difficult for most of us to be the Church when we neglect meeting together.

Having said that, I don't have a problem with those who want better from the experience than just going through the motions too. I sort of look for that myself.

ace of hearts said:

Is Christianity just another place to fill idle time? I really see no difference except arguing from the secular world.

What I'm trying to say I just don't see an assembly of believers in Jesus Christ. What I do see in religious assemblies is vanity and people at each others throats. Even churches belonging to the same control group won't associate. I talk about football, weather, vehicles, civil government issues, pets, general gossip, etc everywhere else. All I see at church is a teacher promoting something not wanting discussion or ill prepared for one, a community sing, and a sermon very few if any remember past the door, if that long and visiting with others about everything except God and His dear Son, Jesus. One pastor told me he's sometimes shocked by those conversations.

Please don't use this thread trying to fix me. I'm not trying to be fixed.

Click to expand...

The Church is the "Body of Christ". Jesus said "few will find it". So that being said, there is a high bar that needs to be met however, many preachers today (not all) set the bar VERY low in order to grow a congregation where most are not saved. So don't feel frustrated, this has been prophesied by Jesus Christ of Nazareth so rest in that. Being a Christian is a personal relationship with Him first and second is to spread the reality of that relationship to others.
Blessings

ace of hearts said:

What I'm trying to say I just don't see an assembly of believers in Jesus Christ.

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Maybe you've been looking in the wrong places?

ace of hearts said:

Is Christianity just another place to fill idle time? I really see no difference except arguing from the secular world.

What I'm trying to say I just don't see an assembly of believers in Jesus Christ. What I do see in religious assemblies is vanity and people at each others throats. Even churches belonging to the same control group won't associate. I talk about football, weather, vehicles, civil government issues, pets, general gossip, etc everywhere else. All I see at church is a teacher promoting something not wanting discussion or ill prepared for one, a community sing, and a sermon very few if any remember past the door, if that long and visiting with others about everything except God and His dear Son, Jesus. One pastor told me he's sometimes shocked by those conversations.

Please don't use this thread trying to fix me. I'm not trying to be fixed.

Click to expand...

I understand and have seen the same around the world. However, I have also seen deep heartfelt fellowship and sometimes in the strangest places. I found myself many times alone and desiring true fellowship with other believers. Once I asked the Lord to provide me opportunities I found that there were plenty of others seeking a Christ centered relationship outside of traditional church settings.

Maria Billingsley said:

The Church is the "Body of Christ". Jesus said "few will find it". So that being said, there is a high bar that needs to be met however, many preachers today (not all) set the bar VERY low in order to grow a congregation where most are not saved. So don't feel frustrated, this has been prophesied by Jesus Christ of Nazareth so rest in that. Being a Christian is a personal relationship with Him first and second is to spread the reality of that relationship to others.
Blessings

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Amen. I am thankful that the Lord is faithful to those who have been called according to His purpose. God Bless you!

ace of hearts said:

Ah thanks. I'm not looking to berate religious organizations. I'm really not looking for something to consume my lusts on. BTW I'm not relating that to self gratifying indulgences or sinful pleasures.

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Brother, why is the church like it is.... religious but not righteous? We are asleep, warm and content all snuggled up with our doctrines to keep us warm, LOL.

Doctrines are important, I liken them to the skeleton of the Christian life. They give us proper structure, but.... they are not life. We have been led down a path where we assume that knowing about God is the same as knowing Him. Bad assumption.

Is it any wonder that we as the church... and yes, I am including ALL groups we call denominations as well as Rome..... are looked upon by the world as shallow hypocrites, a people who love the very same things the world does, just with a bit less excess?

Think about it. We serve a God who can forgive us of sin, but lacks any real power to do what He promised to do, to cause us to walk as obedient children.

Holiness is not seen as something beautiful or even to be desired, but as something restrictive, hard, legalistic, and intruding on our "freedom".

Walking in true victory over the world, the flesh and the devil is not believed possible, and unbelief has choked the limited life we do have into a ritualized cookie-cutter form, where God and Jesus are mentioned a lot, but none truly KNOW Him.

Bottom line is... we as the church are a mess. Thank God we are His mess. He is not through with us by a long shot. This sleep has pretty much lasted for nineteen hundred years, but our God is even now beginning to awaken us to His promises, and to who we are in Him! Oh..... and it will be GLORIOUS!

It will be so observable that those in the world will say "Look! That which brought froth only briars and thorns has become again like the garden of Eden!"
(Ezekiel 36)

blessings,

Gideon

Gideons300 said:

Brother, why is the church like it is.... religious but not righteous? We are asleep, warm and content all snuggled up with our doctrines to keep us warm, LOL.

Doctrines are important, I liken them to the skeleton of the Christian life. They give us proper structure, but.... they are not life. We have been led down a path where we assume that knowing about God is the same as knowing Him. Bad assumption.

Is it any wonder that we as the church... and yes, I am including ALL groups we call denominations as well as Rome..... are looked upon by the world as shallow hypocrites, a people who love the very same things the world does, just with a bit less excess?

Think about it. We serve a God who can forgive us of sin, but lacks any real power to do what He promised to do, to cause us to walk as obedient children.

Holiness is not seen as something beautiful or even to be desired, but as something restrictive, hard, legalistic, and intruding on our "freedom".

Walking in true victory over the world, the flesh and the devil is not believed possible, and unbelief has choked the limited life we do have into a ritualized cookie-cutter form, where God and Jesus are mentioned a lot, but none truly KNOW Him.

Bottom line is... we as the church are a mess. Thank God we are His mess. He is not through with us by a long shot. This sleep has pretty much lasted for nineteen hundred years, but our God is even now beginning to awaken us to His promises, and to who we are in Him! Oh..... and it will be GLORIOUS!

It will be so observable that those in the world will say "Look! That which brought froth only briars and thorns has become again like the garden of Eden! (Ezekiel 36)

blessings,

Gideon

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Amen!