Exposing Dual Covenant Theology

BABerean2

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Rick Wiles exposes the error of Dual Covenant Theology in the video below.

Pastor John Hagee and others have claimed that modern Orthodox Jews do not need Christ because they are under another covenant with God.

Others on this forum continue to claim that God will save modern Jews on the day of Christ's Second Coming, based on Zechariah 12:10.
They are ignoring the words recorded by the Apostle John in John 19:37, and are also ignoring the Spirit being poured out in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost.




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mkgal1

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Pastor John Hagee and others have claimed that modern Orthodox Jews do not need Christ because they are under another covenant with God.
They are ignoring the words recorded by the Apostle John in John 19:37, and are also ignoring the Spirit being poured out in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost.
Exactly. They are ignoring that and creating their own gospel, distorting most of what the new testament says about the New Covenant (at least in my opinion).
 
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Douggg

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Rick Wiles exposes the error of Dual Covenant Theology in the video below.

Pastor John Hagee and others have claimed that modern Orthodox Jews do not need Christ because they are under another covenant with God.
John Hagee probably has gone astray. But I don't care for Rick Wiles commentary because he states that the Antichrist is not a coming person. And he states his source on Michelle Bachman as a pro-Judaism organization - then bases his attack on Michelle Bachman using that source - which he states as being untrustworthy in his opening statement. Rick Wiles is not quoting either Michelle Bachman nor John Hagee directly.

He needs to show videos of them themselves speaking - and then base his criticism on their own words - not potential fake news.

So Rick Wiles himself is trusting what the organizations he is criticizing as being reliable. So he can go on a rant.
 
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Douggg

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Bab2, a video of John Hagee speaking himself, is what Rick Wiles should have done. Not pointing to an article of an organization which he says is biased toward Judaism... and making his argument based on what was state of John Hagee in that article.
 
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Douggg

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Rick Wiles has accurately relayed what Scripture declares regarding antichrist.
Not hardly. He doesn't even understand what the term "Antichrist" means.

1John2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
 
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BABerean2

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Bab2, a video of John Hagee speaking himself, is what Rick Wiles should have done. Not pointing to an article of an organization which he says is biased toward Judaism... and making his argument based on what was state of John Hagee in that article.

John Hagee's stand on the issue is not a secret.
Hagee wrote about his viewpoint in the Houston Chronicle Newspaper many years ago.

He has been called out by many others beside Rick Wiles.

When Hagee stated that Jesus did not come to earth to be the Messiah, he was ignoring Galatians 1:6-9.

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jgr

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Not hardly. He doesn't even understand what the term "Antichrist" means.

1John2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

1John2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

And he had come, and his name was Legion.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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1John2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
And he had come, and his name was Legion.
Titus and his elite 10th Legion encamped on the Mount of Olives [where Jesus gave His Jerusalem/Temple discourse] during the 70 ad siege of Jerusalem. Coincidence?

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:3
Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling! to us, when? shall these be, and what? the sign<4592> of the Thy parousia, and together-finish<4931> of the age.
Mark 13:4
Tell us!
when? shall these be
Luke 21
7 Yet they inquire<1905> of Him, saying, “Teacher!
when? then shall these be

Luke 13:
34“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
35 Lo, is being left to ye the house of ye desolated<2048>

The Great City/Harlot/Queen Revelation chapts 17-19

Revelation 18:19
And they cast dust upon their heads and cried-out, weeping and mourning, saying "Woe! Woe! the great city, wherein all were made rich, that had ships at sea, by reason of her prices. That to one hour She was desolated<2049>

https://www.preteristarchive.com/timeline_military/

Notice the view of the Temple from the Mount of Olives......


Legio X Fretensis - Wikipedia

By 70, the rebellion in all of Judaea had been crushed, except for Jerusalem and a few fortresses, including Masada. In that year X Fretensis, in conjunction with V Macedonica, XII Fulminata, and XV Apollinaris, began the siege of Jerusalem, stronghold of the rebellion.

The Xth camped on the Mount of Olives. During the siege, Legio X gained fame in the effective use of their various war machines................

map_legions mount of olives.jpg
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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:angel:

Dual-covenant theology - Wikipedia

Dual-covenant or two-covenant theology is a school of thought in Christianity regarding the relevance of the Hebrew Bible, which Christians call the Old Testament.

Most Christians hold that the Old Testament has been superseded or abrogated and replaced with the New Covenant, which is the only one of the biblical covenants that remains valid today.
Dual-covenant theology is unique in holding that the Old Covenant or the Law of Moses remains valid for Jews while the New Covenant only applies to non-Jews or gentiles.

Judaism

maintains that in the post-flood era there is a universally binding covenant between God and man in the form of the Seven Laws of Noah[2][3][4] and that there is additionally a unique Sinaitic covenant that was made between God and the Hebrews at biblical Mount Sinai.
However Judaism has not historically maintained that there is a separate covenant for gentiles wherein they should convert to Christianity.
Indeed from the Maimonidean perspective, belief in the divinity of Jesus would be a breach of Noahide Law.[5]

The 18th-century rabbinic thinker Yaakov Emden has even opined:.........................

Messianic Judaism
See also: Messianic Judaism and Olive Tree Theology
David H. Stern, a Messianic Jewish theologian, wrote that dual-covenant theology is said to originate with Maimonides. It was proffered in the 20th century by the Jewish philosopher Franz Rosenzweig, and was elaborated upon by such theologians as Reinhold Niebuhr and James Parkes.[citation needed]

These founders believe that Jesus' message is not for Jews but for Gentiles and, that John 14:6 is to be understood thusly: "I am the way, the truth and the life; and no Gentile comes to the father except through me."[9] Stern asserts that the problem of dual-covenant theology is that "replacing Yeshua’s 'No one comes to the Father except through me' with 'No Gentile comes...' does unacceptable violence to the plain sense of the text and to the whole New Testament."[10]

Apostolic Decree

The Apostolic Decree in the Book of Acts (15:19-29) has been commonly interpreted as a parallel to Noahide Law.[11]

Although the Apostolic Decree is no longer observed by many Christian denominations today, it is still observed in full by the Greek Orthodox.[12]

Opinion of Pope John Paul II
Traditional supersessionist theology, as exemplified in Pope Eugene IV's papal bull, which he published at the Council of Florence in 1441:

The Holy Roman Church . . . firmly believes, professes and teaches that the matter pertaining to the law of the Old Testament, of the Mosaic law ... after our Lord’s coming had been signified by them, ceased, and the sacraments of the New Testament began; ... after the promulgation of the Gospel it asserts that they cannot be observed without the loss of eternal salvation.

All, therefore, who after that time observe circumcision and the Sabbath and the other requirements of the law, the holy Roman Church declares alien to the Christian faith and not in the least fit to participate in eternal salvation...........................

Criticism
A major theme of Paul's Epistle to the Romans is said to be that, so far as salvation is concerned, Jews and Gentiles are equal before God (2:7-12; 3:9-31; 4:9-12; 5:12,17-19; 9:24; 10:12-13; 11:30-32). Romans 1:16, by stating that the Gospel is the same for Jew and Gentile, may present a serious problem for dual-covenant theology.[15]..........................

Catholic
Cardinal Avery Dulles was critical of dual-covenant theology, especially as understood in the USCCB's document Reflections on Covenant and Mission.[25] In the article All in the Family: Christians, Jews and God, evidence has also been compiled from Scripture, the Church Fathers and official Church documents that the Catholic Church does not support dual covenant theology.[26]

Though it is to be removed from the next edition (at order of the Vatican, as misrepresenting the editio typica) the United States Catholic Catechism for Adults (2006) states:[27]

The covenant that God made with the Jewish people through Moses remains eternally valid for them.

In June 2008 the bishops decided by a vote of 231-14 to remove this from the next printing of the Catechism, because it could be construed to mean that Jews have their own path to salvation and do not need Christ or the Church.[28] In August 2009, the Vatican approved the change, and the revised text states (in conformity with the editio typica):[29]

To the Jewish people, whom God first chose to hear his Word, 'belong the sonship, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the worship and the promises; to them belong the patriarchs, and of their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ.'

Protestant
In 2006, Evangelical Protestant Jerry Falwell denied a report in the Jerusalem Post that he supported dual-covenant theology:[30]

I have been on record all 54 years of my ministry as being opposed to dual covenant theology... I simply cannot alter my deeply held belief in the exclusivity of salvation through the Gospel of Christ for the sake of political or theological expediency. Like the Apostle Paul, I pray daily for the salvation of everyone, including the Jewish people.
 
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Marilyn C

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Rick Wiles exposes the error of Dual Covenant Theology in the video below.

Pastor John Hagee and others have claimed that modern Orthodox Jews do not need Christ because they are under another covenant with God.
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Hi BABerean,

I do not agree with what Ps. J. Hagee has said. All purposes of God come under Christ. There is one new covenant in Christ. However there are different inheritances, as God has promised, -

1. The Body of Christ to rule and reign with Christ on His own throne in the third heaven. (Rev. 3: 21)
2. The OT saints (just spirits, Heb. 12: 23) who have been promised the city that will come down from God to near the earth.
3. Israel to rule over the nations. (Rev. 21: 24, Ez. 17: 22 & 23)

Marilyn.
 
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BABerean2

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However there are different inheritances, as God has promised,

That is not what we find in the Book of Hebrews.
You have to ignore the passage below to make your doctrine work.


Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.


Based on Galatians 3:27-29, I am Abraham's seed and inherit the promise through Christ.

We will all be in the presence of the Shepherd.

Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

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Marilyn C

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That is not what we find in the Book of Hebrews.
You have to ignore the passage below to make your doctrine work.


Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.


Based on Galatians 3:27-29, I am Abraham's seed and inherit the promise through Christ.

We will all be in the presence of the Shepherd.

Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

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Hi BABerean.

We read of two groups in Hebrews,

`But you have come to Mount Zion, and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the first-born who are registered in heaven, to God the judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant...` (Heb. 12: 22 - 24)

We are told that we, the Body of Christ will have a better, (great dominion) as our inheritance then those in the city which comes down, below, from God. We will be on Mount Zion ruling with the Lord. we will all be `one flock,` one people of God, just in different places ruling as God promised.

All realms of God`s great kingdom will have rulership that God promised, and all will be under Christ, who is over all.

Marilyn.
 
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BABerean2

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We read of two groups in Hebrews,

`But you have come to Mount Zion, and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the first-born who are registered in heaven, to God the judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant...` (Heb. 12: 22 - 24)

Are you trying to claim there are two different groups of believers in Hebrews 12:22-24?

Are you saying the "church of the first-born" are not "the spirits of just men made perfect"?


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Marilyn C

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Are you trying to claim there are two different groups of believers in Hebrews 12:22-24?

Are you saying the "church of the first-born" are not "the spirits of just men made perfect"?


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Hi BABerean,

That`s right, they are not the same people. The church of the first-born, is the Body of Christ, registered in heaven. The spirits of just men. (& women) are the Old Testament saints who looked for a city. (Heb. 11)

Marilyn.
 
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BABerean2

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Hi BABerean,

That`s right, they are not the same people. The church of the first-born, is the Body of Christ, registered in heaven. The spirits of just men. (& women) are the Old Testament saints who looked for a city. (Heb. 11)

Marilyn.

The Old Testament saints in Hebrews 11:15-16, are not just looking for a city. They are promised the same city found in Hebrews 12:22-24, which is New Jerusalem.
It is the same city where we will be.


The "just men" are found below.


Rom_3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Rom_5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Rom_5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

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