SATAN'S OVERTHROW

James Honigman said:

The 2nd verse of the Holy Bible teaches us something that is rarely taught from the pulpits, it teaches us about Satan's overthrow in the age before this flesh age, which I call the 1st earth age. In fact, verse two of the Holy Bible explains why, because of Satan's overthrow, our Heavenly Father took the steps He did in preparing the earth and heaven for this 2nd earth age, the flesh age, in which we are now living.

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Basically I agree. Although I don't know if I would call ours "the flesh age" (maybe I would), but I understand what you mean.

This current earth, beginning with Adam, I don't see how the dinosaur's would fit in. I think there was a prior period which that earth got leveled, all life with it, because Satan, his angels got into manipulating the life forms to have violence, which Satan was out to alter God's creation as part of his rebellion.

Tried the same thing in the Nephillim period.

You have to wonder, Satan knew he did not have creative power like God, so what could have been going through his mind to think he could rise above God and be worshiped?

I am pretty sure that because up to Satan's rebellion, all that was seen and known of God by the angels was one of love, creation, kindness. So Satan probably thought that God was incapable of anything else - so Satan figured he could dominate God, to have Him do what Satan wanted. Did he ever get a rude awakening find out otherwise, when he went the iniquity route !

BABerean2 said:

Maybe this guy can...

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Okay, keep this video clip in mind when I ask you this question here.

The 2004 example of the "earthquake".
Did any country on God's green earth change their standard of a 24 hour day for the slowing of the earth's rotation?

Did the science community inform people, "okay, we are going to adjust our clocks and make this a 23 hour day, because the earths rotation is slowing down"?

Did ANYONE consider those days in 2004 to be anything less than/more than a 24 hour day?

And so, when we said "DAY" did we mean ANYTHING LESS/MORE than a 24 hour day?

Apply this to the definition and context of Genesis and Exodus examples of the word day/Yowm. See next point.

Next point:
Did the definition of "rotation" change since the word was first conceived?

Apply this example to the definition/context of Yowm

BABerean2 said:

Your ears are not the problem, based on the verse below.

Mat_7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

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Our discussion has NOTHING to do with Matthew 7:3 and the reason it was stated. Nothing to do with this. You have totally misapplied this verse.

And everything to do with 2 Timothy 4:3-4:

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

You have totally misapplied this verse in Matthew 7

You are defending the very idea of the OPer who states that Genesis 1's "days" are ages or eras. This is totally false.

BABerean2 said:

Maybe this guy can...

Your ears are not the problem, based on the verse below.

Mat_7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

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Moses wrote what he wrote by direction of God. God had Moses apply the word Yowm in the context of ONE DAY literally. One day has always been applied as a 24 hour period.

Acts2:38 said:

One day has always been applied as a 24 hour period.

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The above would be your words, which are not found in the Word of God.

If the earth's rotation has slowed down, then what does that mean about the earth's rotation in the past?

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BABerean2 said:

The above would be your words, which are not found in the Word of God.

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No, wrong. God had chosen those words by having Moses apply the context evening and morning to the word Yowm which means day. A day has always been 24 hours as far back as one can record.

Moses applied the same word "yowm" in Exodus 31 just the same as he applied the word yowm in the SAME context in Genesis 1.

So was Moses wrong when God told him to write this, comparing Genesis 1 to Exodus 31?

The time span from Abraham to Moses is AT LEAST 1,000 years. From Abram to Noah and the flood account who knows. So lets through a ball park number of 1,200 plus years for example sake.

Moses had applied the very same word Yowm, in the context of one day, to both Genesis 1 AND Exodus 31:17.

I now apply my previous post response once again

Acts2:38 said:

Okay, keep this video clip in mind when I ask you this question here.

The 2004 example of the "earthquake".
Did any country on God's green earth change their standard of a 24 hour day for the slowing of the earth's rotation?

Did the science community inform people, "okay, we are going to adjust our clocks and make this a 23 hour day, because the earths rotation is slowing down"?

Did ANYONE consider those days in 2004 to be anything less than/more than a 24 hour day?

And so, when we said "DAY" did we mean ANYTHING LESS/MORE than a 24 hour day?

Apply this to the definition and context of Genesis and Exodus examples of the word day/Yowm. See next point.

Next point:
Did the definition of "rotation" change since the word was first conceived?

Apply this example to the definition/context of Yowm

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Next up:

BABerean2 said:

If the earth's rotation has slowed down, then what does that mean about the earth's rotation in the past?

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Did you just grab any video you could to attempt to shame me while not paying attention to what was in the video?

In the video, the man used an example of a record player. The man stated that when the record starts to slow down, pressure builds. The pressure finally creates events that force out and then speed up the rotation again.

What did the Lord say before? "Times and seasons" See Genesis 8 after the flood account was finished.

The earth is not a perfect circle. It is an elliptical shape. Ever notice that the days are longer in the summer and shorter in the winter? Notice that the earth has a pattern every so often that happens, then doesn't happen for a period of time?

The 24 hour time period has been recorded as far back as the Ancient Egyptians and Babylonians.
And guess what?!
We still record our days the same after thousands of years since those ancient empires.

It all supports scripture. One day, 24 hours. This is what God Himself had Moses write.

Acts2:38 said:

The 24 hour time period has been recorded as far back as the Ancient Egyptians and Babylonians.
And guess what?!
We still record our days the same after thousands of years since those ancient empires.

It all supports scripture. One day, 24 hours. This is what God Himself had Moses write.

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I did not realize the ancients used the same clocks that we use today.

Thanks for correcting me...



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BABerean2 said:

I did not realize the ancients used the same clocks that we use today.

Thanks for correcting me...



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Are you just being facetious now?

Obviously they didn't have digital clocks. They did however begin the minute and hours system and even were recorded to incorporate the 24 hour system.

Its in the history books. I suggest you put your nose to the grindstone in this matter, then come back to me when your ready to incorporate logic and truth.

Acts2:38 said:

It all supports scripture. One day, 24 hours.

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Except, Unless and until one day = 1000 years (2 Peter 3:8)

parousia70 said:

Except, Unless and until one day = 1000 years (2 Peter 3:8)

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Denominations misapply this verse to support their theory.

Yes. To GOD, that is so. To us, it is NOT so.

Moses was directed by God to record Yowm (day) as a literal day by the very context of the verses.

"evening and morning....first/second/etc YOWM (day) Genesis 1

Exodus 31:17

15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.


Yowm (day) is also introduced here, and in this very context/grammar used, it mean exactly literal days.

Not ages or eras.

So, please dont apply verses without knowing the context or even what is happening in the scripture you pull it from.

Acts2:38 said:

Are you just being facetious now?

Obviously they didn't have digital clocks. They did however begin the minute and hours system and even were recorded to incorporate the 24 hour system.

Its in the history books. I suggest you put your nose to the grindstone in this matter, then come back to me when your ready to incorporate logic and truth.

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If you can show us a photograph of a 4,000 year old clock, we would love to see it.

Can you show us a clock found in King Tut's tomb?

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BABerean2 said:

If you can show us a photograph of a 4,000 year old clock, we would love to see it.

Can you show us a clock found in King Tut's tomb?

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Now your arguing secular history?!?! I thought for sure you would agree to that. After all, you brought me that video and a link.

It's all recorded in the history books. Do your own homework on this. It is an easy thing now days when you can just jot down something in Google search (or whatever you use) and find a plethora of information.

At this point, it seems like your goading me more than trying to discuss by any logical means.

Acts2:38 said:

Now your arguing secular history?!?! I thought for sure you would agree to that. After all, you brought me that video and a link.

It's all recorded in the history books. Do your own homework on this. It is an easy thing now days when you can just jot down something in Google search (or whatever you use) and find a plethora of information.

At this point, it seems like your goading me more than trying to discuss by any logical means.

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If you cannot show us an ancient clock which recorded a 24 hour day, your efforts to add a 24 hour day to the Book of Genesis fall apart.

You are also ignoring the fact that the whole creation was corrupted by the fall. The very nature of time itself could have changed at the fall.

You have no idea how long Adam and Eve lived in the garden before the fall, during a time when they would not have aged.
They did not begin to age until after the fall.


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BABerean2 said:

If you cannot show us an ancient clock which recorded a 24 hour day, your efforts to add a 24 hour day to the Book of Genesis fall apart.

You are also ignoring the fact that the whole creation was corrupted by the fall. The very nature of time itself could have changed at the fall.

You have no idea how long Adam and Eve lived in the garden before the fall, during a time when they would not have aged.
They did not begin to age until after the fall.


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Did I mention that you should do your own "homework" as there is a "plethora" of information about ancient clocks? I think I also mentioned that they were able to divide the day and night to make a 24 hour time period, right?

The Ancient Babylonian Origins Of Modern Time

Water clock - Wikipedia

History of sundials - Wikipedia

Babylonian Hours

How did ancient civilizations use sundials to tell time?

Do I need anymore links to prove the point that they had clocks way back in those times?

BABerean2 said:

You are also ignoring the fact that the whole creation was corrupted by the fall. The very nature of time itself could have changed at the fall.

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No. I have not ignored this fact. It says they did evil and even thought evil to the point God had enough.
However, I think you are ignoring the fact that NOAH was selected, along with his family, to survive the flood. And I think Noah and his family were perfectly able to tell time seeing as that he was older than you, your father, and your grandfather combined. Are you saying Noah was so corrupt that he would even lie about time?
Are you saying that Moses, directed by God, was corrupted to the point that he would not mean a literal day when he wrote Genesis and the other four books?

Your statement has completely failed seeing as that you forgot that Noah was faithful and lived through the flood.

BABerean2 said:

You have no idea how long Adam and Eve lived in the garden before the fall, during a time when they would not have aged.
They did not begin to age until after the fall.

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See, its statements like this, that make me fully believe you do not believe in the authority of scripture.

Yes, because I have scripture, I do indeed know how old Adam was. How long he was in the garden does not matter. But we do know his age. Just read the bible instead of blindly following what others tell you.

Genesis 5
1 This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;

2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth:

4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

Believe scripture or not, it is your choice. I am just trying to point out truth with scripture, so it is not my opinion you are against.

Acts2:38 said:

Are you saying that Moses, directed by God, was corrupted to the point that he would not mean a literal day when he wrote Genesis and the other four books?

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Absolutely not.

However, a "literal day" to Moses would have been one rotation cycle.

day and night

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BABerean2 said:

However, a "literal day" to Moses would have been one rotation cycle.

day and night

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Okay,
Now apply the fact that they had clocks (see my links and even look for more in historical accounts). Also apply the fact that Egyptians/Babylonians/etc had the means to apply a 24 hour period to their "rotation cycle" day and night.

It is historically accounted for. Irrefutable. Even people who discard the scriptures agree that these ancient empires had the means to tell time.

Also, I take it that you agree on the fact (since you made no disagreeable response):

1- We do know the full age of Adam from garden to kicked out of the garden, to death (930 years; see Genesis 5)

2- That Noah was not corrupt and could in fact be able to tell time therefore your theory that time was made corrupted is false.

3- That the links I have provided show ample proof that ancient civilizations could indeed tell time

Then I will also remind you of the video YOU provided shows that the earth has "times and seasons" that it may slow in rotation, but "pressure" is then released speeding up the rotation again. It is just the earths cycle/process, like the 4 seasons spring, summer, fall, and winter.
It by no means proves any substantial increase or decrease in hours of the day worth mentioning. Therefore, we, just like the ancient civilizations, just like Moses, and just like everyone throughout time, has applied 24 hours to a literal day.

The evidence is overwhelming. Are you just arguing for the sake of it?

I found an interesting thing to note on this subject (interesting to me at least )

First we must realize that Babylon is the time that we are in again and from which the redeemed shall come out of. the first Babylon is what God foretold us is the head of gold, Nebecanzer as the king of kings, the beginning of the age of the gentiles and to his prodigal came the writing on the wall.

During the prophesy of the times in Daniel the opposition to receiving the answer was because the king of Persia stood in the way and needed the archangel Micheal to clear the way.

When looking at the cause of the Babylonians coming against Isreal it was due to the king showing the Babylonians all the treasure in God’s kingdom.

The prophesy was for a time, times, and a half time. Three times in the Bible, the "3½-year period" is broken-down into "a time, times, and half a time," (Daniel 7:25; 12:7; Revelation 12:14, cf. Daniel 4:16,23,25,32). Anything repeated three times in the Bible is exceptionally important. The consensus of scholarship understands "a time, times, and half a time" to signify "a year, two years, and half a year." In other words, "a time, times, and half a time" consists of "360 days, 720 days, and 180 days," for a total of 1260 days or 3½ years (Revelation 11:3; 12:6).

I believe that the 1/2 year is the time we are going thru now.

Ok, so back to the king of Persia. He showed off his treasures of the land for 180 days he flaunted them. ( Esther 1:4) Our King of Kings, the Head of Gold to His People can and will defeat the King of Persia as Micheal and his armies fight against the dragon and his minions and we can be content in the knowledge that the outcome has been prophesied from the outset.