SATAN'S OVERTHROW

James Honigman

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With the wisdom our Heavenly Father has given, I believe we are living in the final generation of this 2nd earth age, the flesh age. Consider there was an age before this flesh age when all the sons of God shouted with joy. Actually, the Holy Bible declares those ages, if you know where to look. Few Pastors, or Rabbis and Priests for that matter, teach about those ages. I would like to show one place in the Holy Bible where the Word of God teaches these ages: the first two verses in the Bible.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1.1

That is the 1st verse of the Holy Bible and notice that our Father does not say when He created heaven or earth or how long it took Him to do this. The confusion of when and how long begins in verse two, and indeed, throughout the first chapter and into Genesis. It is easy, even logical to deduce, extrapolate or assume the rest of Genesis chapter one begins from verse one, but it does not; it begins from verse two.

The 2nd verse of the Holy Bible teaches us something that is rarely taught from the pulpits, it teaches us about Satan's overthrow in the age before this flesh age, which I call the 1st earth age. In fact, verse two of the Holy Bible explains why, because of Satan's overthrow, our Heavenly Father took the steps He did in preparing the earth and heaven for this 2nd earth age, the flesh age, in which we are now living.

Radical doctrine, you say? No, not at all, it is what the Holy Bible really says, and what our Heavenly Father wants His children to understand, as the millennial day is about to begin. Allow me to get into the 2nd verse of the Bible and explain, from both the Old and New Testaments what it really says. Here is verse two of the Holy Bible:

And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Genesis 1.2

In the original Hebrew manuscripts this verse is telling us about Satan's overthrow, the Tohu Va Bohu (Old Testament Hebrew). In the New Testament Greek, Satan's overthrow is called the Katabole. Verse two then goes on to tell us how the Holy Spirit began to move on the face of the earth; preparing the earth for this flesh age, which is detailed throughout the rest of chapter one.

Now, if we read those first two verses of the Bible together, it is easy to conclude that when God began His creative work the heavens and the earth were an empty canvas, void and without form. Actually, it only reads that way in the English language. In the original Hebrew (the manuscripts) it reads altogether differently. The King James Bible translators corrupted the phrase, was without form. The word was should have been translated became, and without form should have been translated ruin or waste.

Properly translated then, in the original Hebrew, the beginning of that verse should have read: “And it came to pass, that the earth BECAME a total desolation and was lying in waste.” Simply stated then, our Father did not create the earth void and without form, it BECAME that way when, at His fierce anger, God destroyed the world that then was, as the Apostle Peter described it. And again, just in case I’m losing you, this was the Tohu Va Bohu (Old Testament Hebrew); Satan’s rebellion in the age before this flesh age.

Why is this important? Because, just as Y'shua promised us, nothing shall be hidden that shall not come into light. The reason we have endured the flesh age is because of Satan's rebellion. Our Heavenly Father's love for us prevented Him from destroying one third of His children, who followed Satan at his rebellion. We got a second chance because of the love of our Father, and how well we did with that chance will now be judged as we begin the millennial day.


For more end of days wisdom please check out any page on my website, sataniscoming.com, or read more of my blog, blessedwithwisdom.blogspot.com.
 

Acts2:38

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With the wisdom our Heavenly Father has given, I believe we are living in the final generation of this 2nd earth age, the flesh age. Consider there was an age before this flesh age when all the sons of God shouted with joy. Actually, the Holy Bible declares those ages, if you know where to look. Few Pastors, or Rabbis and Priests for that matter, teach about those ages. I would like to show one place in the Holy Bible where the Word of God teaches these ages: the first two verses in the Bible.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Genesis 1.1

That is the 1st verse of the Holy Bible and notice that our Father does not say when He created heaven or earth or how long it took Him to do this. The confusion of when and how long begins in verse two, and indeed, throughout the first chapter and into Genesis. It is easy, even logical to deduce, extrapolate or assume the rest of Genesis chapter one begins from verse one, but it does not; it begins from verse two.

The 2nd verse of the Holy Bible teaches us something that is rarely taught from the pulpits, it teaches us about Satan's overthrow in the age before this flesh age, which I call the 1st earth age. In fact, verse two of the Holy Bible explains why, because of Satan's overthrow, our Heavenly Father took the steps He did in preparing the earth and heaven for this 2nd earth age, the flesh age, in which we are now living.

Radical doctrine, you say? No, not at all, it is what the Holy Bible really says, and what our Heavenly Father wants His children to understand, as the millennial day is about to begin. Allow me to get into the 2nd verse of the Bible and explain, from both the Old and New Testaments what it really says. Here is verse two of the Holy Bible:

And the earth was without form and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. Genesis 1.2

In the original Hebrew manuscripts this verse is telling us about Satan's overthrow, the Tohu Va Bohu (Old Testament Hebrew). In the New Testament Greek, Satan's overthrow is called the Katabole. Verse two then goes on to tell us how the Holy Spirit began to move on the face of the earth; preparing the earth for this flesh age, which is detailed throughout the rest of chapter one.

Now, if we read those first two verses of the Bible together, it is easy to conclude that when God began His creative work the heavens and the earth were an empty canvas, void and without form. Actually, it only reads that way in the English language. In the original Hebrew (the manuscripts) it reads altogether differently. The King James Bible translators corrupted the phrase, was without form. The word was should have been translated became, and without form should have been translated ruin or waste.

Properly translated then, in the original Hebrew, the beginning of that verse should have read: “And it came to pass, that the earth BECAME a total desolation and was lying in waste.” Simply stated then, our Father did not create the earth void and without form, it BECAME that way when, at His fierce anger, God destroyed the world that then was, as the Apostle Peter described it. And again, just in case I’m losing you, this was the Tohu Va Bohu (Old Testament Hebrew); Satan’s rebellion in the age before this flesh age.

Why is this important? Because, just as Y'shua promised us, nothing shall be hidden that shall not come into light. The reason we have endured the flesh age is because of Satan's rebellion. Our Heavenly Father's love for us prevented Him from destroying one third of His children, who followed Satan at his rebellion. We got a second chance because of the love of our Father, and how well we did with that chance will now be judged as we begin the millennial day.


For more end of days wisdom please check out any page on my website, sataniscoming.com, or read more of my blog, blessedwithwisdom.blogspot.com.

This is quite a stretch and overstepping from what scripture says, and clear grammatical context.

Verses 1-5 are all happening in the same day. The word "And" is used as a conjunction (see schoolhouse rock for explanations on word uses)

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Those "and's" join everything together, while other and's bring in addition to the subject (ie starting in verse 6)

Grammar/context dictate this, that verses 1-5 are the first day. Verses 6-8 are the second day, and so on and so forth. No person who teaches any proper grammar could agree with the idea you propose.

As far as ages, i could see were someone might tend to believe this without paying attention.

The Hebrew word for Yom (day) has a few meanings. However, careful attention to the words "evening" and "morning" lead you to only ONE conclusion. The Hebrew word for day (Yom) means exactly ONE 24 hour day.

"and the evening and the morning were the first/second/third/etc/ day"

God, being all powerful, could in fact pull off creation in 6 literal days. Which is what the context/wording shows, 24 hour days, 6 of them. Not to mention the other verses in scripture that say specifically 6 days all was created.

Exodus 20:8-11
Exodus 31:17

Which is the WHOLE ENTIRE REASON for....
Exodus 16:26
Exodus 31:15

Just to name some.

So, I would invite you to search the scriptures a bit more. Compare scripture with scripture. The bible does not contradict itself, except only when someone twists scripture around.
 
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BABerean2

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God, being all powerful, could in fact pull off creation in 6 literal days. Which is what the context/wording shows, 24 hour days, 6 of them. Not to mention the other verses in scripture that say specifically 6 days all was created.

The word "hour" is not found in the first five books of the Bible.

If a day is equal to the earth's rotation rate, why would anyone assume it has always been 24 hours long?

We know the sun stood still in the sky during the time of Joshua.

We also know the whole earth was corrupted by the fall.

We also know that at some point in time the fall will be reversed and time will not be the same as it is now.
Why would we assume the measure of time was the same before the fall, as it is now?

.
 
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jgr

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Now, if we read those first two verses of the Bible together, it is easy to conclude that when God began His creative work the heavens and the earth were an empty canvas, void and without form. Actually, it only reads that way in the English language. In the original Hebrew (the manuscripts) it reads altogether differently. The King James Bible translators corrupted the phrase, was without form. The word was should have been translated became, and without form should have been translated ruin or waste.

There was no KJV corruption. The translation was accurate.

922. bohu
בֹּ֫הוּ noun [masculine] emptiness (on form see Ges§ 84a, 1 b Sta§ 95, 198 a, on usage compare LagOr. ii. 60 f.) always with תֹּהוּ q. v.; — תֹּהוּ וָבֹהוּGenesis 1:2 of primeval earth

8414. tohu
תֹּ֫הוּ noun masculine1Samuel 12:21 (AlbrZAW xvi (1896), 112) formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness (primary meaning difficult to seize; Vrss usually Κενόν, οὐδέν, μάταιον, inane, vacuum, vanum; compare LagOr. ii. 60; BN 144); —
1 formlessness, of primaeval earth Genesis 1:2 (P)
 
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Acts2:38

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The word "hour" is not found in the first five books of the Bible.

Please pay attention when reading what I have posted. This is the exact reason why some twist scripture. Lack of attention to detail.

I was talking about the Hebrew word "Yowm". It means a few different things pending on the context of words before and after. Just like any other word.

Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

The context of each "day" in Genesis 1 (words set before Yowm), dictate one literal 24 hour day.

I should not have to argue for context and grammars sake. One would not only be twisting scripture, but they would be twisting context for the sake of their own desire of false teachings.

If a day is equal to the earth's rotation rate, why would anyone assume it has always been 24 hours long?

Because the bible records this fact, by God's authority, through holy men. You will either believe God or not (that which the scriptures record).

Which leads me to something I must ask you when you ask questions like this.

Do you believe in scripture, all of it, every word?
Do you believe the bible as the only authority?

Any answer other than "yes", and I cannot continue with you in this particular discussion.

We know the sun stood still in the sky during the time of Joshua.

I fail to see the point you bring with this statement. Yes, the sun did. However, this does not prove anything the OPer is suggesting. In fact, if this subject was related to what we are talking about, it would prove that it was a literal day, not an entire "age".

We also know the whole earth was corrupted by the fall.

Yes, we do know according to scripture, but this is another statement that I fail to see your point on. How does this relate?

We also know that at some point in time the fall will be reversed and time will not be the same as it is now.

What do you mean, reversed?
Also, are you implying a second fall, and what do you mean by this?

When Christ comes the second time, the earth, the heavens, all things will be "burnt up with a fervent heat" and be melted away.

In other words, the physical, tangible things will be gone. It will be a "spiritual" realm.

"My kingdom is not of this world, if it was, My servants would fight..."

So yes, time would not be the same as we would know it. Spiritual is forever, and it has no end. That's why salvation is so important. Our physical bodies are not forever, but our spiritual is.

Why would we assume the measure of time was the same before the fall, as it is now?

Maybe because scripture, which holds all authority in these matters, dictated by God Himself, written through holy men, told us this?

2 Timothy 3:16-17
 
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BABerean2

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The context of each "day" in Genesis 1 (words set before Yowm), dictate one literal 24 hour day.

I should not have to argue for context and grammars sake. One would not only be twisting scripture, but they would be twisting context for the sake of their own desire of false teachings.


Based on scripture, can you prove that the earth's rotation period was not 23 hours, at that point in time?

Please show us the word "hour" in the Book of Genesis.


Can you use the laws of physics to show that the earth's rotation period has not slowed down?


.
 
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Acts2:38

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Based on scripture, can you prove that the earth's rotation period was not 23 hours, at that point in time?
Denominations love to use hypothetical type scenarios and questions. I wish they would just believe scripture or even just study it as zealously as they push falsehoods. They would answer their own questions by doing so.

Did you even see the definition of the word "Yowm"? If you did, why are you asking this?

Also, you are defending the OPer that believes each "day" is an entire age or era. Is this your stance as well?

If it is your stance, then I would pose the very same question you asked here.

Please show us the word "hour" in the Book of Genesis.

Did you even read the link I posted to the word "yowm"? If you did, do you even understand what I am speaking of? Because something is going over your head here.

Also, please show me the same courtesy I give you by answering my questions first, then posing more of yours. It is how discussion/debates move forward instead of running in place not getting anywhere.

Can you use the laws of physics to show that the earth's rotation period has not slowed down?
Do you believe in scripture, all of it, every word?
Do you believe the bible as the only authority?
 
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BABerean2

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Do you believe in scripture, all of it, every word?
Do you believe the bible as the only authority?

Absolutely,

When a man says the earth's rotation rate was 24 hours before the fall, I want them to prove it based on scripture, instead of making the assumption that it was the same as today.

Based on the text below, the length of a day can change.

Jos_10:13 So the sun stood still, And the moon stopped, Till the people had revenge Upon their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.



I am not part of any denomination.
I am a member of the New Covenant Church of Jesus Christ, which was established during the first century.

.
 
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Acts2:38

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Well, this is a start, and I will happily accept that for the time being in hopes this will improve. Although, I wish that you would have gave response to all that I asked.

Absolutely,

When a man says the earth's rotation rate was 24 hours before the fall, I want them to prove it based on scripture, instead of making the assumption that it was the same as today.

Based on the text below, the length of a day can change.

Jos_10:13 So the sun stood still, And the moon stopped, Till the people had revenge Upon their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and did not hasten to go down for about a whole day.

The proof I have that it is a literal day is right in the very context "evening and morning...first/second/etc day(yowm)"

Also, take Exodus 31:17 for example:
" It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed."

The Hebrew word here is the very same word used in Genesis 1, Yowm, which is Day(s).
Furthermore, this very same word used in Genesis 1 yowm, is used in the very same context. We can even further examine the scriptures here and see that Exodus 31 takes place quite a while AFTER the flood account.
Nevertheless, God had Moses write the first 5 books, and the word yowm in this context did not change when you compare Genesis 1 and Exodus 31:17.

It is a literal day, and there is no escaping this. God had Moses write these accounts and if you believe the scriptures, if you can understand and follow context/grammar, you are forced to conclude a literal day. It is 24 hours today, it was 24 hours yesterday, it was 24 hours 10 years ago, and it was 24 hours when Exodus 31 was enacted and even recorded. So also was it when Genesis 1's event occurred, just as Moses was commanded to write it by God.

Not to mention that day and night were created on the very first day, divided (separated), so that literal days can happen. Have people forgot about this important point?

To argue this any further, is pointless. The definition of the word combined with the context and grammar of the events in Genesis 1 and verse references in other books, dictate a literal day.

Now to answer the book of Joshua point you attempted to use, God used miracles and wonders ALL THROUGHOUT scriptures. Just because God extended a day, one, two, or even three times, doesn't prove that a literal day is not 24 hours.

Did you see this part?
"So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day."

It did not go down about a "whole day".

Now tell me please, I implore you. What is the Hebrew word for "day" in Joshua 10:13?

This verse in Joshua helps prove a literal day more than ages or era's, why would you even bring it up?

There was darkness for 3 hours when Jesus was crucified. Does that prove any point that a day is not 24 hours? No.

Just because Joshua was granted more day time so the people of Israel could "avenge" themselves, doesn't mean or prove that a literal day is not 24 hours.

You are really stretching by bringing this as your defense to the OP
 
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James Honigman

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Thanks so much for your input, I have enjoyed reading it. In my opinion, the important point here is that our Father did not create the earth void and without form, it BECAME that way (was = became) because of the Tohu Va Bohu, Satan's overthrow. Please read Isaiah 45.18 where it states that God created it not in vain(tohu) but created it to be inhabited. Also, the Apostle Peter mentions the overthrow in 11 Peter 3, 5&6. Peter mentions all 3 earth ages in that chapter, and he also explains how 1 day with the LORD is 1,000 years to us. Interesting, wouldn't you say? Thanks again.
 
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BABerean2

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It is 24 hours today, it was 24 hours yesterday, it was 24 hours 10 years ago, and it was 24 hours when Exodus 31 was enacted and even recorded.

You are making an assumption that the earth's rotation rate never changes, which is proven incorrect by the laws of physics found in the link below.

Is the earth's rotation slowing down?

The same God that created the earth also created the laws of physics.

.
 
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Acts2:38

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You are making an assumption that the earth's rotation rate never changes, which is proven incorrect by the laws of physics found in the link below.

Is the earth's rotation slowing down?

The same God that created the earth also created the laws of physics.

.

You are arguing the very meaning of the word, Yowm, and the context that it is given in.

I think that is what you are missing. Stop listening to websites and people that more than likely don't believe in a God, and much less attempt to prove anything for God.

What does the scripture say? Not some group of people and what they hypothesize.

Scripture is God breathed, not the website you linked.

And Moses, the writer of Genesis and the other 4 books, wrote those books under the guidance of God. So when Moses used the word YOWM, and placed "evening and morning...the [next] day" it is exactly that.

Moses understood, when writing the 5 books, what a day was. Twenty-four hours. Moses was clearly around after the flood. Moses was told to write events before and after the flood. Moses understood, not only to himself what a day was, but also by the guidance of God, who had him write the first 5 books.

Moses's choice of words, by direction of God, had written in context as one day for each of the 7 days mentioned. Moses choice of words uses day as one 24 hour day in the Hebrew language.

Our language uses day as one 24 hour period. The Koine Greek uses their language of day as one 24 hour period. The ancient Egyptians also do the same in their language. And so, Moses, inspired by God, does the same. God is "not the author of confusion". It means precisely one 24 hour day in the Hebrew language, and that definition has not changed in all the centuries/millennia that the language was studied and carried over from generation to generation.

I dont know how else to point this out to you, I'm sorry.

One last example:
You learned in school, the definition of "Bad". However, Bad, in the American language can have a few meanings.

Formally, it can mean poor quality or poor timing, etc

Informally, it could mean good, excellent, awesome, etc

Whether informal or formal, it all depends on the context used to apply this word "bad". The definition is set in stone, of course pending on the context you used. It does not change.

What you are saying, is that one day (when Moses wrote these books) could have been 1,000 hours (just to throw out a number). You are saying that the Hebrew language changed their definition of "day/yowm" over time from meaning 1,000 hours to 24 hours.

This is false. When God set the times and seasons for us, it was the same then as it is now. You cannot provide any proof in scripture, so you grab me man's hypothesis/theories.

Yes, God created all things. But, He is not an author of confusion, and He created the languages we have. The definitions for the Hebrews word Yowm have not changed except on how you apply the context to the word.

Bring me scriptural evidence as I have done for you. See my original post to the OPer and my first one for you, for other verses.
 
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BABerean2

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Moses understood, when writing the 5 books, what a day was. Twenty-four hours.

You keep ignoring the fact that the earth's rotation rate has not always been what it is now.

Moses never used the words "Twenty-four hours".
It could have been 23 hours.

.
 
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Acts2:38

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You keep ignoring the fact that the earth's rotation rate has not always been what it is now.

Moses never used the words "Twenty-four hours".
It could have been 23 hours.

.

According to who?

And how long have they studied this?

And how far back can they go that is recorded for their theory?

200 years ago, it was 24 hours. How has this changed to the present?

You keep ignoring the fact that the definition of the word used in Hebrew, HAS NOT CHANGED.
 
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BABerean2

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You keep ignoring the fact that the definition of the word used in Hebrew, HAS NOT CHANGED.

Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

The Biblical definition has not changed, because one cycle of daylight and darkness is a "day".

However, you are adding your 24 hour spin-rate to what the Bible says.
The word "hour" is not found in the text.
You have no idea what the spin-rate was before the fall.


.
 
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Acts2:38

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Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

The Biblical definition has not changed, because one cycle of daylight and darkness is a "day".

However, you are adding your 24 hour spin-rate to what the Bible says.
The word "hour" is not found in the text.
You have no idea what the spin-rate was before the fall.


.

I'm not adding. I am telling you that the 24 hour period is implied and inherent with the word Yowm (day) and context (evening/morning) when God had Moses write the five books.

The definition of the word Yowm (day/24 hours) is the same when moses wrote it and is the same today. 24 hour period.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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According to who?
And how long have they studied this?
And how far back can they go that is recorded for their theory?
200 years ago, it was 24 hours. How has this changed to the present?
You keep ignoring the fact that the definition of the word used in Hebrew, HAS NOT CHANGED.
Amen and HalleluYAH !

Keep up the good fight ! The GOOD NEWS !

Fighting tradition is a never ending battle, God's Battle though, until Jesus Returns and Saves His People Forever accompanied with unbelievable sweet JOY and Perfect Peace no one can take away ......
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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If anyone else has any thoughts on how to reach this individual, and getting them to see what they are overlooking, I am all ears.
I am just fresh out of ways to explain this as simply as I can.
hahaha...... (yes, it is written "they" wear out the Ekklesia )

.... take a time of refreshing, a break, as needed , as Yahweh gives us , His beloved, sleep and rest and

comforts our souls in His Peace and Joy ! YES ! HALLELUYAH !

HIS LOVINGKINDNESSES are NEW and FRESH every morning ! YES! YES !
 
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BABerean2

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If anyone else has any thoughts on how to reach this individual, and getting them to see what they are overlooking, I am all ears.

I am just fresh out of ways to explain this as simply as I can.

Maybe this guy can...



Your ears are not the problem, based on the verse below.

Mat_7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

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