The great misconception of the kingdom of God

claninja · Jan 24, 2019

Daniel Martinovich said:
Well see, what you are doing is "spiritualizing " the promises and prophecy I am referring too.

I guess I'm not following how I am "spiritualizing" the promises that you are referring to.

Daniel Martinovich said:
I mean its not like I haven't known every verse you quoted by heart for the last 30 years.

That's good.

Daniel Martinovich said:
And of course Jesus and the apostles would emphasize those verses of promises too because they knew,

Good, we agree then that there were real promises and blessing of the kingdom of God fulfilled during the 1st century:

peace, righteousness, and joy in the Holy Spirit
Forgiveness of Sins
Freedom from the law
bearing fruit for God
fearing only God, due to the hope of the resurrection

Daniel Martinovich said:
well at least Jesus knew that for the most part those were the only promises they would be able to attain to for thousands of years

I think this might be where we disagree. This probably depends on our view of the resurrection and whether people are in heaven yet or not or if heaven will be on earth.

Daniel Martinovich said:
its not also like we in the western world doesn't preach and teach those things to strengthen us against the minor inconveniences of life we face.

I agree

Daniel Martinovich said:
Minor in comparison to the trials and tribulations of all people in the ancient world and half the world today.

I wouldn't discount the severe persecution of Christians around the world: North Korea, parts of north Africa, parts of the middle east, China, etc...

Daniel Martinovich said:
But even Peter who possessed every promise you just listed said: 2nd Peter 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. There was simply more promised.

I absolutely agree with this. Peter was waiting for resurrection, for which the fullness of the blessings and promises of the kingdom of God would be a reality

2 Peter 3:10, 13 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and its works will be laid bare. 13But in keeping with God’s promise, we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

Revelation 20:11-12 Then I saw a great white throne and the One seated on it. Earth and heaven fled from His presence, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne. And there were open books, and one of them was the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books

Revelation 21:1-2 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Daniel Martinovich said:
A lot more and the mountain of Gods Kingdom filling the whole earth after the fourth empire was crushed was the thing they were looking for.

I agree. The rock that came in 1st century has grown into a mountain, for the true God is worshipped all around the world today, regardless of wealth and health, even in the face of persecution.

Daniel 7:27 his kingdom shall be an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.’

Daniel Martinovich said:
They were looking for and hoping for the fulfillment of promise and prophecy that could not be fulfilled without an end to the legal institution of slavery. And why not since half the worlds population were the property of others in their day.
Isaiah 58:66 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
Isaiah 54: In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.

Christ set us free, from and sin and the Law. This is a blessing of the kingdom that we experience now.
Galatians 5:1 For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore, and do not submit again to a yoke of slavery.

As the body of Christ, our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the dominion of darkness
Ephesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this world's darkness, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

But thanks be to God who has freed us from the dominion of Darkness through the death of his Son.
Colossian 1:13 He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of His beloved Son,

And while we experience part of the blessings of the kingdom on earth, we look forward to experiencing the full reality of the blessing and promises of the kingdom when God brings us safely to heaven through the power of the resurrection.
2 Timothy 4:18 The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed and bring me safely into his heavenly kingdom. To him be the glory forever and ever. Amen.

Daniel Martinovich said:
They were looking towards and for an end to despotic human government; that without an end to that, the institution of slavery could not be done away with. Looking for the rule of law instead of the rule of men.
Psalm 72:4 He shall judge the poor of the people, he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor.
Isaiah 42:4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set justice in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

I partially agree. Many around the world still look for that today. that didn't stop when the roman empire fell.

Daniel Martinovich said:
They were hungering for a day when property rights were looked at as sacred because without them you have no practical freedom.
Isaiah 65:21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them. 22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

So you are talking about materialistic, earthly freedom? While earthly freedom in regards to the world is a blessing and allows us to worship God in earthly safety, it doesn't grant true freedom, which only comes from God.

Daniel Martinovich said:
They were longing for an end to the perpetual poverty of the masses and the famines and short life due to malnourishment.
Isaiah 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant that dies, nor an old man that hath not filled his days:

Christ promised that those who believe in Him will never die because He is the resurrection and the life.
John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me will live, even though he dies. And everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?

Thus the man that dies at 100 is young if he dies in the Lord because of the resurrection.
Isaiah 65:20 (b) for the young man shall die a hundred years old, and the sinner a hundred years old shall be accursed.

Daniel Martinovich said:
They wanted an end to being conquered and ruled over the wicked and those inspired by the spirit of antichrist.
Isaiah 54:15 Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake. No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn.
Zechariah 12: 8 In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
Psalm 149:7 To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people; 8 To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; 9 To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD.

I agree the wicked are judged by God, and ultimately because of the resurrection, enemy can stand against God's people.

Daniel Martinovich said:
Like most people who have received the doctrine of the preterism though. You are resistant to acknowledge something that would chip away at some, (but not all) of the things you believe. Even though they are obvious.

You are allowed your opinion, but I'll respectively disagree

Daniel Martinovich said:
Here is one for you I think will fascinate you though. Actually you would love all my articles on Jesus's parables about the kingdom of God. I add one at the end called the parable of John the Baptist. I think it will blow your mind.
The Parable of John the Baptist

Thank you for this link, while I don't agree with all of it, I appreciate you providing this.

jgr · Jan 24, 2019

claninja said:
This right here is an excellent point. Thanks jgr

Thank you claninja for your many insights.

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The great misconception of the kingdom of God

claninja

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jgr

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