Australia Day

MissRowy said:

As most of you probably know Australia Day is celebrated by most as the day that the British arrived in Sydney with the Union Jack to signify the beginning of the colony. However most Indigenous people refer to Australia Day as Invasion Day because it was the day that the white people took over their land and claimed it as theirs.
So what do you think?

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There have been Australians in Australia for 60,000 years. That’s 60,000 years of Australian history and pre-history before the British arrived in 1788.

While the arrival of British colonisation is a major event in Australia’s history, to suggest that it is the event we should commemorate as a national celebration for all Australians effectively ignores all that was before the British arrived. It also ignores the negative impact that a colonial presence has had, and is still having, on Indigenous Australians.

We need a day that has a positive meaning for all Australians. As well as our Indigenous people we now have Australians who originate from all over Europe, from India, from Asia, from the Americas and from Africa. The cultural significance of a British act of colonisation is slowly being diluted by Australians for whom Britishness is not a part of their cultural heritage.

We need a new Australia Day to celebrate the fact that we all own Australia.
OB

MissRowy said:

As most of you probably know Australia Day is celebrated by most as the day that the British arrived in Sydney with the Union Jack to signify the beginning of the colony. However most Indigenous people refer to Australia Day as Invasion Day because it was the day that the white people took over their land and claimed it as theirs.
So what do you think?

Click to expand...

I don't accept the name "Invasion day". I believe the whole idea was pushed by leftists, not
indigenous people.

Martin Tom said:

I don't accept the name "Invasion day". I believe the whole idea was pushed by leftists, not
indigenous people.

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"Invasion Day" is a publicists meme. A bit of hyperbole is sometimes a good shorthand way of a getting a point across.

I don't think it matters who first pushed the idea of changing the day although I can recall indigenous protest going back many years.

For me the issue is not 'who started it?' but 'is it an idea worth considering?'.

Apart from some minor costs in changing the paperwork I'm hard pressed in finding a downside.
OB

Occams Barber said:

"Invasion Day" is a publicists meme. A bit of hyperbole is sometimes a good shorthand way of a getting a point across.

I don't think it matters who first pushed the idea of changing the day although I can recall indigenous protest going back many years.

For me the issue is not 'who started it?' but 'is it an idea worth considering?'.

Apart from some minor costs in changing the paperwork I'm hard pressed in finding a downside.
OB

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Wake up. It is part of a movement (pushed by leftists) to de-Westernize Australia (and de-Christianize).

Martin Tom said:

Wake up. It is part of a movement (pushed by leftists) to de-Westernize Australia (and de-Christianize).

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De-Westernise? You'll need to explain this one. I have no idea what you mean. 'Western' has a range of implied meanings covering level and style of economic wealth, political system, geography and even ethnic/racial connotations. Are we 'undeveloping' our economy, changing our political system, moving the country further East or - is this a racial thing?

De-Christianise? According to the 2016 Census the 'nones' (no religion) group are now the biggest single 'denomination' in Australia at 30%; up from 18.7% in 2006. The nearest Christian group is Catholics at 23%. Australia is described as one of the most irreligious among the developed countries.

So I would agree we're getting less Christian. I also suspect that the less Christian we are the less Christian we'll become (although there is a lower limit). Where I don't agree is that there is a conscious movement. It's simply that the country is becoming culturally less based in Christianity as the number of practising Christians drops.

From my point of view this is not a bad thing.
OB

MissRowy said:

As most of you probably know Australia Day is celebrated by most as the day that the British arrived in Sydney with the Union Jack to signify the beginning of the colony. However most Indigenous people refer to Australia Day as Invasion Day because it was the day that the white people took over their land and claimed it as theirs.
So what do you think?

Click to expand...

I am myself a migrant. I reckon we should do justice to the indigenuous people
, but if we let the leftists have their way, we would be heading for disaster (think
about the other bad things the leftists have done in the last 50 years: legalization
of divorce, legalization of abortion, minimum wage law, etc).

The Breakup of Australia: the Real Agenda Behind Aboriginal Recognition / Keith Windschuttle

Martin Tom said:

I am myself a migrant. I reckon we should do justice to the indigenuous people
, but if we let the leftists have their way, we would be heading for disaster (think
about the other bad things the leftists have done in the last 50 years: legalization
of divorce, legalization of abortion, minimum wage law, etc).

The Breakup of Australia: the Real Agenda Behind Aboriginal Recognition / Keith Windschuttle

Click to expand...

I'm trying to figure out what the legalisation of divorce, abortion and the minimum wage have to do with the date of Australia day apart from some vague leftist conspiracy theory?

BTW: Most developed countries have similar rules on divorce and abortion. The leftist conspiracy has branches everywhere apparently.

Minimum wage law dates back to the famous Harvester Judgement in the Federal Arbitration Court, over a century ago, in 1907. As a significant component of the downtrodden (mainly Irish) working poor of the time, Catholics applauded the ruling.
OB

I'm a migrant who's become a citizen (just to place myself in context).

The people I know who are most strongly pushing the idea of changing/moving Australia day are Indigenous people who are Christians, and I am inclined to take their griefs and concerns seriously.

I can't see that it would be a problem to move the public holiday from January to, say, August (there's a long stretch of no public holidays between the Queen's birthday and cup day...), breaking the link with British settlement.

I'm not a fan of the term "invasion day" (are we really going to portray hapless convicts as "invaders" with any credibility?), nor am I at all in favour of an Indigenous state-within-a-state, or any other solution which divides Australians into different governance systems based on race (I came here to leave apartheid behind, I have no desire to see it created here), but I think there's a lot we can do to build unity, and this would be a gesture which causes no harm.

So why not?

26 Jan commemorates the beginning of modern Australia and is the day we can collectively give thanks for all that is good about Australia.

Sorry Day is 26th May and commemorates the historical mistreatment of Aboriginal people.

It is very significant that the Greens the ones pushing changing the date.

I agree with indigenous Alice Springs councillor Jacinta Price who says changing the date is a meaningless gesture.

MissRowy said:

However most Indigenous people refer to Australia Day as Invasion Day because it was the day that the white people took over their land and claimed it as theirs.So what do you think?

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Not true.
Polling shows that the great majority of Aussie Aborigines are indifferent and even accepting
of the 26th January as Australia,
As usual it is promoted the ultra-left Greens and the latte sipping inner suburbs crowd
who are the vanguard of the revolution that will save us from being backward
and deplorable.
The arrival of the British in 1788 to establish the colony of New South Wales is
the birthday, the beginning of the history and development of modern Australia.
An Australia that the great majority of indigenous Aussies partake of and enjoy.

Waggles said:

As usual it is promoted the ultra-left Greens and the latte sipping inner suburbs crowd
who are the vanguard of the revolution that will save us from being backward
and deplorable.

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I am not Green nor am I a latte sipper and I live in rural Australia hundreds of kilometres from the nearest inner suburb.

Why do you, a Christian, find it necessary to vilify those who disagree with you? Are you not capable of framing an argument without injecting an insult?

OB

Occams Barber said:

Why do you, a Christian, find it necessary to vilify those who disagree with you? Are you not capable of framing an argument without injecting an insult?

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I vilify no one.
Just because I have a political opinion about who is pushing a particular
political barrow is not vilification.
In a democracy I am entitled to my opinion on which class or group of
people are behind political arguments and public appeals.

You may well be an exception and personally support for your own reasons the
moving of Australia Day from January 26th.
But that does not alter the overwhelming fact that the "controversy" over
Australia Day being celebrated on the 26th January is spearheaded by Left-wing
political parties and individuals as opposed to being agitated for by the greater
majority of Australians.

It is Greens dominated city councils along with Richard Di Natale and the Greens with
vocal left-wing indigenous "leaders" who are loudest on this.
Aided and abetted by a very Left-wing ABC and the usual gang in the media.

Calling it out is not vilifying anyone. It is called political analysis and debate.

Occams Barber said:

Why do you, a Christian, find it necessary to vilify those who disagree with you? Are you not capable of framing an argument without injecting an insult?

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A general observation is different from your personal put down.

It is clear where the strongest support for changing the date is coming from.

The Australian: "Senator Di Natale said he hoped to build on the momentum of the Greens-led Yarra and Darebin councils in Melbourne and the Fremantle council in Western Australia, all of which shifted Australia Day celebrations last year."

I like what Jacinta Price said, reported in the Canberra Times

Ms Price said if the date was changed, "there will be something else for the Aboriginal middle class activists and guilt-ridden white fellas to be offended about".

My two bob's worth, for what it's worth (huh?).

I don't think we've had a day yet that really defines our nation. I suppose the closest would have to be Anzac Day (to commemorate the terrible loss of young life in World War I, using the Gallipoli Landings as the focus), Rememberance Day (remembering those who died in war and conflict) and Federation Day when we actually became a constitutional nation. The problem with the last one is that it occurs on the New Year (1901).

In all three cases, they already constitute public holidays or at least public significance (Remembrance Day is not a public holiday).

I don't know if the arrival of a bunch of ill treated convicts should constitute our national day, regardless of indigenous thoughts on the matter.

Personally I think we'll have to wait for a severe challenge, which involves conflict on Australian soil, before we can can find a day which claims the national attention.

In the meantime, I think we should just stick with the existing order, until circumstances compel us to fight for our existence as a nation.

Going by the things I see around and about, that may not be too far off (North Korean nuclear ambitions, China's increasing assertiveness, Trump's confusing rhetoric, Russian military growth, India and Pakistan at odds (both nuclear armed), Islamic fundamentalism on the rise (including Indonesia and Malaysia), the pressures of global population growth, super industrialisation, climate change (?), dwindling fossil fuels etc.

And as one British military figure recently put it, Australia would be a glittering prize for some other nations, and he would be very surprised if we are not put to the test some time this century.

From that, we might decide on a day of more fervent significance which will really mean "Australia Day", rather than a bunch of Redcoats on an unwanted overseas posting raising a forlorn Union Jack on the shores of Botany Bay.

But I think it will involve suffering, and a lot of it.

The first time I heard the term invasion day or survival day in regards to the term the 26th of Jan it was an Aboriginal person. For many Aboriginals, they see it that way. For many Aboriginals, there is no reason to celebrate that day. I can understand the reasons for this such as a young Aboriginal is more likely to go to jail than finishing school and they have a 20 year less life expectancy than non-Aboriginal Australians.

I have no problem in the change in the National day but I believe it could take many years to do this.