"Trump ready for US shutdown to last 'for years'"

EpiscipalMe said:

I also do my own research reading accounts from multiple sources.

Now, if you aren’t relying on any media reports, where do you get information?

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I don’t really follow politics in general in the way most Americans do.

I am a Bible-based child of God and I follow Jesus Christ. That is at the core where I stand and who I stand in.

I back Trump because he is doing what he said would do.

That’s my simple answer.

cow451 said:

It’s his fantasy. Deny it if you like, but he’d love to go full Putin.

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Well I will ponder your point and watch Trump closely.

ToBeLoved said:

Have you read the responses today?

I mean if it’s not important enough to want to protect our own citizens, then how much does one really care?

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It's important enough to reject the lie that The Wall is the only way to protect our own citizens.

It's important enough to reject the lie that those who oppose the wall "don't care" to protect our own citizens.

ToBeLoved said:

I don’t really follow politics in general in the way most Americans do.

I am a Bible-based child of God and I follow Jesus Christ. That is at the core where I stand and who I stand in.

I back Trump because he is doing what he said would do.

That’s my simple answer.

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Good to know.

I’ll keep that in mind from now on when reading your posts.

ToBeLoved said:

Trump has a very high IQ. Genius level.

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lolol okay

If that were the case, it would be apparent in the way he talks. Regardless of whether or not I agree with their policies, smart people sound like they know what they're talking about. I could list off dozens of Republican politicians (including some in the Trump administration) with whom I disagree yet who still sound like intelligent (maybe even brilliant) people.

Trump is not that. At all.

While I'm sure there's some amount of gamesmanship in what he says and how he says it, there are still plenty of times when he tries to act and sound competent and fails.

Speedwell said:

It's important enough to reject the lie that The Wall is the only way to protect our own citizens.

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I think what is very basic is that each one of us when protecting our home and property have locks and walls in our houses.

Now no one is stupid enough to think someone who is trying to enter your home or take your property or harm you has no other way to enter besides walls or the bricks and foundation of a house, but it is the most basic strategy to make it MORE DIFFICULT.

People can break a lock or door or crawl through a window. But the basic foundation f protection makes it harder and for someone to then go to other means. Then someone secures their locks with better locks, better doors, a security system, additional window security.

I think that the simple fact is that most
People have fences or some kind of wall around their property or even a gated community. Or when you need to be buzzed in to a school or nursing home.

It makes me wonder why people cannot connect the simple security measures almost every business, organization and home takes to not be robbed, raped or killed.

iluvatar5150 said:

lolol okay

If that were the case, it would be apparent in the way he talks. Regardless of whether or not I agree with their policies, smart people sound like they know what they're talking about.

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Well I can understand after listening to politicians all their lives who never use their own words and have massive PR and media teams scripting their every word and talking point.

If you would rather have that then someone who is going to speak for themselves and use their own words, be my guest.

Also, letting people and giving them reason to underestimate you is a real and worthwhile tactic.

Look at you guys chasing the rabbit down the rabbit hole.

Now obviously, if Trump thought he would win the hearts of people through his words, he would also have a PR team scripting him.

But fundamentally, Trumps strength is that he is not a lifetime politician. What you see as a dumb move, I believe after he fulfills his campaign promises, will further in dear people to him.

I think you underestimate how fed up the American people are. As soon as people get results that change their lives and finances, they will hop off the anti Trump train.

It’s a simple strategy of DOING not talking about it.

Jesus was a doer. Jesus came to serve.

Not saying Trump is close to our Lord, but saying that God is all about being a light in a dark world through action.

God doesn’t call us to sit around and do nothing. We are to be a city on a hill for all to see.

ToBeLoved said:

I think what is very basic is that each one of us when protecting our home and property have locks and walls in our houses.

Now no one is stupid enough to think someone who is trying to enter your home or take your property or harm you has no other way to enter besides walls or the bricks and foundation of a house, but it is the most basic strategy to make it MORE DIFFICULT.

People can break a lock or door or crawl through a window. But the basic foundation f protection makes it harder and for someone to then go to other means. Then someone secures their locks with better locks, better doors, a security system, additional window security.

I think that the simple fact is that most
People have fences or some kind of wall around their property or even a gated community. Or when you need to be buzzed in to a school or nursing home.

It makes me wonder why people cannot connect the simple security measures almost every business, organization and home takes to not be robbed, raped or killed.

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Security measures, yes. The question is, why are you pushing the notion that a 35-foot high, coast-to-coast concrete monolith is the only way to do it and anyone who doesn't agree with you about that "doesn't care" about illegal entry, drugs or child trafficking, most of which the wall won't stop.

ToBeLoved said:

Well I can understand after listening to politicians all their lives who never use their own words and have massive PR and media teams scripting their every word and talking point.

If you would rather have that then someone who is going to speak for themselves and use their own words, be my guest.

Also, letting people and giving them reason to underestimate you is a real and worthwhile tactic.

Look at you guys chasing the rabbit down the rabbit hole.

Now obviously, if Trump thought he would win the hearts of people through his words, he would also have a PR team scripting him.

But fundamentally, Trumps strength is that he is not a lifetime politician. What you see as a dumb move, I believe after he fulfills his campaign promises, will further in dear people to him.

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I don't know where you got the absurd notion that I equate staying on script to sounding smart. I would argue that being able to stay on script requires some amount of discipline (something Trump also seems to lack), particularly in contentious circumstances, but I don't see how it requires much in the way of being smart. In fact, I've heard plenty of people who are good at staying on message while also sounding like idiots. On the flip side, somebody like Elon Musk is obviously a smart guy but is somebody who could probably stand to stay on message a little more if only for the sake of keeping the SEC at bay.

No, in fact, I typically find the evidence of intelligence and capability to be most abundant when people are speaking freely. The more senior and public a person is, the less often they seem to do that, but even high-profile people like elected officials and senior cabinet secretaries do speak candidly at times. Trump speaks candidly all the time and frequently shows himself to be simple-minded, immature, and inarticulate.

Speedwell said:

Security measures, yes. The question is, why are you pushing the notion that a 35-foot high, coast-to-coast concrete monolith is the only way to do it and anyone who doesn't agree with you about that "doesn't care" about illegal entry, drugs or child trafficking, most of which the wall won't stop.

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It is your perception I said that.

If you reread my post I clearly put in Caps “MORE DIFFICULT”.

If you are going to not read my words, then I’m wasting my time replying.

If you would like to reread my post and really listen to my words and talk, I would be happy to do that and discuss.

But if you choose to push a false narrative of what I said, I’m not interested.

I choose my words carefully. I expect to be held to them and.not a fabricated narrative.

May God bless you

iluvatar5150 said:

. I would argue that being able to stay on script requires some amount of discipline (something Trump also seems to lack).

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Interesting.

I totally disagree.

Politicians when going in front of the press have very scripted narratives and TelePrompTers. How you think reading from a TelePrompTer requires discipline.

My grandson, five years old, just started to read simple chapter books. Reading is about reading the first word, followed by the second word, ect.

Not sure how that is ‘discipline’?

Trump rarely uses a TelePrompTer.

I do see why you would like the Dems tho. You seem to like the scripted politics

ToBeLoved said:

It is your perception I said that.

If you reread my post I clearly put in Caps “MORE DIFFICULT”.

If you are going to not read my words, then I’m wasting my time replying.

If you would like to reread my post and really listen to my words and talk, I would be happy to do that and discuss.

But if you choose to push a false narrative of what I said, I’m not interested.

I choose my words carefully. I expect to be held to them and.not a fabricated narrative.

May God bless you

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It is not a "fabricated narrative" that you think that because we reject the Great Wall of Trump we "don't care" about illegal entry, drugs or child trafficking.

iluvatar5150 said:

particularly in contentious circumstances, but I don't see how it requires much in the way of being smart. In fact, I've heard plenty of people who are good at staying on message while also sounding like idiots.

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Feel free to disagree but I honestly believe that his communication choice partially is a tactic and a good one really.

It causes people to underestimate him, lower their guard and lets their own ego give them a false sense of security.

He uses words much more carefully than a lot of people think.

Have you ever read the Bible verse that talks about how God uses the weak things to confound the wise?

Think about Jesus. Jesus as God could have stacked the deck with a brilliant team of the 12 disciples. But look at who He chose.

A bunch of Hebrew fishermen. Fishermen was a very low status job. No education no skills needed to fish. Very poor, uneducated and the least of them, so to speak.

One could equate a fisherman of Jesus day with someone in our society who flips burgers.

Speedwell said:

It is not a "fabricated narrative" that you think that because we reject the Great Wall of Trump we "don't care" about illegal entry, drugs or child trafficking.

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It’s simple logstics though.

Not rocket science that one secures their possessions and what they value with a basic, hard to permeate barrier.

When I was raising my daughter I was very cognoscent that many children who are abused sexually are done so by family or close friends.

I wasn’t inviting people to stay overnight in my house with my small child unattended. Nor did my daughter go that many places for a long period f time before the age of 5 years old and I taught her acceptable love and touching vs unacceptable AND creates a very open dialog that she could come to me always and without any retribution or shame if boundaries were violated.

After she was 1 1/2 years old, I wouldn’t even wash her body. I was sitting by the bathtub, but I taught her that her body is not to be touched by anyone.

Not her mother, not her father. No one, but her. Clear boundary. I included myself outside of the acceptable boundary. Purposely. To be very clear: NO ONE!

In this, I purposefully set a stage where she would be fairly safe and would know if their was someone doing something outside of the carefully crafted boundaries I set. I did this also with my son.

So, my point, is that by not taking steps to protect, in a way you are negligent for that lack of protecting.

We protect what we value.

What do you value?

ToBeLoved said:

It’s simple logstics though.

Not rocket science that one secures their possessions and what they value with a basic, hard to permeate barrier.

When I was raising my daughter I was very cognoscent that many children who are abused sexually are done so by family or close friends.

I wasn’t inviting people to stay overnight in my house with my small child unattended. Nor did my daughter go that many places for a long period f time before the age of 5 years old and I taught her acceptable love and touching vs unacceptable AND creates a very open dialog that she could come to me always and without any retribution or shame if boundaries were violated.

In this, I purposefully set a stage where she would be fairly safe and would know if their was someone doing something outside of the carefully crafted boundaries I set. I did this also with my son.

So, my point, is that by not taking steps to protect, in a way you are negligent for that lack of protecting.

We protect what we value.

What do you value?

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Again with the false dichotomy. My considered opinion is that the Great Wall is not the best nor the most cost effective way to secure the border. I may be wrong, but that does not mean I do not want to "protect." I consider that a nasty and unChristian insinuation.

Speedwell said:

Again with the false dichotomy. My considered opinion is that the Great Wall is not the best nor the most cost effective way to secure the border. I may be wrong, but that does not mean I do not want to "protect." I consider that a nasty and unChristian insinuation.

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Ok. Well I’ve taken the time to share my viewpoint and obviously you disagree.

Not going to further beat a dead horse.

I will not further waste your time since you feel slighted.

My point was clearly we protect what we value. I said it clearly multiple times.

It is Biblical. God tells us to guard our hearts and souls. The enemy of God comes as a lion to name, kill and destroy.

Jerusalem in the Old Testament had walls. Today part of the temple wall still exists.

In the Book of Nehemiah, after the city walls in Jerusalem had been destroyed, in Nehemiah, God brought the Israelites back to rebuild and rehabitate the city. Nehemiah chapters 4 and 5 has them refortifying the city. To PROTECT it. BIBLICAL.

SO, no I am not saying you are unChristian. I don’t throw that around. I don’t believe in saying that.

What I AM SAYING is that if we look at what God has told us in the Bible, there is precedent for God’s people to protect themselves.

ToBeLoved said:

Interesting.

I totally disagree.

Politicians when going in front of the press have very scripted narratives and TelePrompTers. How you think reading from a TelePrompTer requires discipline.

My grandson, five years old, just started to read simple chapter books. Reading is about reading the first word, followed by the second word, ect.

Not sure how that is ‘discipline’?

Trump rarely uses a TelePrompTer.

I do see why you would like the Dems tho. You seem to like the scripted politics

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I don't mean reading off a teleprompter; I mean staying on message when responding to questions. Staying on message and not veering off on tangents, or even over-explaining things, requires a certain amount of preparation and discipline.

ToBeLoved said:

Feel free to disagree but I honestly believe that his communication choice partially is a tactic and a good one really.

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I'm sure there's some of that - and maybe even more than he's typically given credit for - but it's still quite clear from the times he goes off the cuff that he's not some incredible genius.

Have you ever read the Bible verse that talks about how God uses the weak things to confound the wise?

Think about Jesus. Jesus as God could have stacked the deck with a brilliant team of the 12 disciples. But look at who He chose.

A bunch of Hebrew fishermen. Fishermen was a very low status job. No education no skills needed to fish. Very poor, uneducated and the least of them, so to speak.

One could equate a fisherman of Jesus day with someone in our society who flips burgers.

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We were talking about his IQ, not the underlying wisdom or value of his message and actions. A person can be brilliant while still being foolish and/or terrible. Nothing about him exhibits an IQ of the level you suggested.

I would also argue that there's not a lot of wisdom or virtue to be found in his message or behaviors, either - that his primary pursuit is in promoting himself, at the expense of all others if need be, but that's something of a separate issue.

iluvatar5150 said:

I don't mean reading off a teleprompter; I mean staying on message when responding to questions. Staying on message and not veering off on tangents, or even over-explaining things, requires a certain amount of preparation and discipline..

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If you think about it though, most of the mainstream media will edit Trump and not even post any message that does not show him as a bumbling idiot.

So to get his talking points across he must take public opportunities to correct things.

If people who disagreed with Trump, like yourself, DEMANDED full, unedited coverage, instead of edited INTENTIONAL SOUNDBITES, you might have a point.

However, you are being spoon-fed like children, a narrative and your blind to it!

So I DO Dismiss your rhetoric.

Get ALL the data. Then form a conclusion.

Educate yourself.

EpiscipalMe said:

Worried about Mueller? Me? Not really. Just interested and hearing what he finds. Also interested in challenging people who claim it is a witch hunt.

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Oooh! That'd be me....

EpiscipalMe said:

I also do my own research reading accounts from multiple sources.

Now, if you aren’t relying on any media reports, where do you get information?

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From the source. You want to know how many drugs come across the border other than POE? Check the DEA, and FBI. For example. Just pick a topic and look.
DEA releases 2018 National Drug Threat Assessment

Want to understand a bill?... read it. If you have to sit there with a dictionary, do it. You will learn far more doing the legwork yourself.

EpiscipalMe said:

You and I are the same in that regard.

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Cool, thanks.

ToBeLoved said:

If you think about it though, most of the mainstream media will edit Trump and not even post any message that does not show him as a bumbling idiot.

So to get his talking points across he must take public opportunities to correct things.

If people who disagreed with Trump, like yourself, DEMANDED full, unedited coverage, instead of edited INTENTIONAL SOUNDBITES, you might have a point.

However, you are being spoon-fed like children, a narrative and your blind to it!

So I DO Dismiss your rhetoric.

Get ALL the data. Then form a conclusion.

Educate yourself.

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How would you know? You said you dont watch media.

No; he is just given rope, he hangs himself every time he speaks off-script.