Demons - real or not?

Cis.jd said:

Well, i for one am very skeptic towards the existence of Satan. Out of any theological topic that can be discussed, it's Satan that makes 0 sense.

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Well, read the bible. I have read it and Satan is real.

Remember, one of Satan's main goals is to ensure that people don't believe in him.

Another of his main goals is to have people believe that God is not real.

These two things work wonders for his cause.

Cis.jd said:

What you believe about them is meaningless.. because at the end you need to rationalize why it is good to just let these christians go to heaven with out any justification towards the pain they caused someone.

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NO. "We" do not let them go to heaven. "We" do not approve of things you have spoken of.

Cis.jd said:

So in the end, even murder --even burning of innocent people to even children-- now is just "swept under the rug".

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A liar told you that.

Cis.jd said:

This is bad theology. Please re-read my post, check the video link as well and then think about some of the things that happened by Christians in history, in addition to the verses I provide. Accepting Christ is much more deeper than what you just said here, and a non-christian has been shown to be more christ like than christians these days. We have to have reason and rationality when we read the scriptures, we can't just build our beliefs based on what we interpret from what is said at face value. We have to study it, and understand the circumstances IRL and during that time.

Why would a Christian such as the villagers who voted women and children to be burned alive due to believing they were witches have more rights at all to just go to heaven with out any payment for what they did? Not only does that make no sense but that shows a horrible god. If you imagine yourself as a family member of one of those victims and you saw someone just give that person an instant reward with out any punishment or justice on your behalf, you would be completely angry and if you pretend other wise you are lying or just completely heartless.

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Again, as I touched on this in another post....

There are non Christians who are more Christ like.. Big deal... They cannot "do" anything to get to heaven.. The only thing that pays for the sins of a human is death.

Now, if this Christ like non Christian can die and resurrect themselves.. then sure.

Getting to heaven is not "how good you are" It is also, not "how bad you are".

It is only...... one more time....... Did you believe you were a sinner and that Jesus died for YOU ... AND.. accept Him as your savior...PERIOD.

It matters not if you think it's right or I think it's fair... It is GOD's Created world... God's rules and God gets to choose the rules.

JacksBratt said:

Hey... to you and me it may not be "logical" But... I'm not God and I don't have the right or power to decide that...

That is what the bible says. The bible is God's word. Who am I to question it?

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We can't always use that as an excuse. We are given by God the ability to think and to use our wisdom, and we can't just use this excuse when we can't show any sense to what we are saying.

I agree, there have been many terrible things done... Not only that but they were done in the Name of Christ or God...

One thing is for sure.. anyone who did these things in the name of God.. and was not covered by the blood.. will face eternal damantaion.

Problem is.. we don't know if they did it out of ignorance or under the teaching of someone that they trusted to be teaching the truth of God....

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But they still accepted christ. Most of these actions where just done because these people were just dumb and they had 0 access to science or even knowing how to read.
And of course they did it out of ignorance, at least for the villagers. You can say what you want about the leaders but the villagers certainly believed it.
So if these villagers just got a pass to heaven with out that being justified then God is not a just and good God. He apparently did not care about the pain, the screams, and the murder.. he just cared that they worshiped him. Whether you realize/admit it or not, this is what you are saying God is. I know you are a smart man, and i can see right through your posts that you do understand the rationalism i am presenting here. Take in note that Christianity has believed in a place/state prior to heaven/hell since the time of the Jews. That is why all the first christian denominations -- including Protestants prior to the Radical Reformation-- believe it.

Lets make a scenario. Lets just say the gods of the hindus (or any god such as Allah, Zeus..) are the correct/real god.. and the moment you die they send you to hell because you believed in a non-existent god and not them. Do you think that is fair?

Cis.jd said:

But they still accepted christ

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Like the demons who believe, but they shudder in terror.

JacksBratt said:

There are non Christians who are more Christ like.. Big deal... They cannot "do" anything to get to heaven.. The only thing that pays for the sins of a human is death.
.

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And this is where the problem is. Because here you define an evil god. If god doesn't care about you doing good or you being a good person and only defines your good because you believed in him, then he is a god of vanity.

"Getting to heaven is not "how good you are" It is also, not "how bad you are"."
So this god just created us (we never asked to be created) and we are forced to worship him other wise we will suffer something so unimaginable for all eternity.. and yet you are trying to convince me that this is a loving God and this is the Gospel (good news)?

yeshuaslavejeff said:

A liar told you that.

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Jackbrat is not a liar. He is good nature, takes the time to read carefully and not ignore posts before answering. I disagree with him, but I know he is a good christian who is honest in his debates. You should take example of him.

Cis.jd said:

Jackbrat is not a liar. He is good nature, takes the time to read carefully and not ignore posts before answering. I disagree with him, but I know he is a good christian who is honest in his debates. You should take example of him.

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He's not the one who lied to you.
He's been posting the truth to you,
and you reject it, because you believe the lies you have posted that someone told you.

JacksBratt said:

Well, I don't know what bible you read, but the one I read says this, which states that sinners with or without the law will be judged and perish as will those who who know the law will:


Romans 2:12 King James Version (KJV)

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

OR, this, which shows what I said... it is written on our hearts.

Romans 2:14-15 King James Version (KJV)
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

Call me wrong all you want. I'm just stating facts from the canonized scripture which is the word of God.

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You are not paying attention to what it says with enough detail. The conclusion you are drawing is different from what those scriptures are teaching.

Well, yes, this all looks right, straight and truth from Scripture.

QUOTE=
]Well, I don't know what bible you read, but the one I read says this, which states that sinners with or without the law will be judged and perish as will those who who know the law will:


Romans 2:12 King James Version (KJV)

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

OR, this, which shows what I said... it is written on our hearts.

Romans 2:14-15 King James Version (KJV)
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
........ ........ ......
.......... ......... .......
[/QUOTE
=====================================

yeshuaslavejeff said:

Well, yes, this all looks right, straight and truth from Scripture.

QUOTE=
]Well, I don't know what bible you read, but the one I read says this, which states that sinners with or without the law will be judged and perish as will those who who know the law will:


Romans 2:12 King James Version (KJV)

12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

OR, this, which shows what I said... it is written on our hearts.

Romans 2:14-15 King James Version (KJV)
14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
........ ........ ......
.......... ......... .......
[/QUOTE
=====================================

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The scripture is fine, his teaching is faulty. I am just saying that I take no part in that teaching of his.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

He's not the one who lied to you.
He's been posting the truth to you,
and you reject it, because you believe the lies you have posted that someone told you.

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Obviously you didn't read the argument, you are just replying to me on impulse. You are like "he's wrong anyway!!" no need to comprehend or know the context of the argument. Just stop. You are really bad at this and you have a lot of learning (biblically) to do. OBTW. You need prayers because you preach a god of hate as shown in that tattoo thread and every other thread.

double post...

Cis.jd said:

Obviously you didn't read the argument, you are just replying to me on impulse. You are like "he's wrong anyway!!" no need to comprehend or know the context of the argument. Just stop. You are really bad at this and you have a lot of learning (biblically) to do. OBTW. You need prayers because you preach a god of hate as shown in that tattoo thread and every other thread.

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God destroyed all the naions that sought to harm Israel.
God let Adam and Chavah sin, knowing how many billions woud perish forever .
God let the enemy host / start/ continue wars , just in the last 200 years,
that killed millions.
God let corporations and countries , under the beast system being prepared,
create hunger to the point of starving millions of children, as well as thousands dying every day of thirst/ dehydration.

To all who know and believe the TRUTH,
God is Perfectly Righteous and Just

Deuteronomy 32:4

“He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.”

King James Version (KJV)

To all who reject the TRUTH, He has stored up His wrath.

The world deserves to die.
Death is the sentence already determined by God.
Not just for abortion, and idolatry, no, for much much more wickednesses everywhere , like sodom and gomorrah....

Revelation 6-19 NIV - The Seals - I watched as the ... - Bible Gateway

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+6-19&version=NIV
They were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by sword, famine and plague, and by .... they did not stop worshiping demons

, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and ... tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. ....

The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.

JacksBratt said:

Well, read the bible. I have read it and Satan is real.

Remember, one of Satan's main goals is to ensure that people don't believe in him.

Another of his main goals is to have people believe that God is not real.

These two things work wonders for his cause.

Click to expand...

Yes. I've read the Bible. I've read and done all sorts of scriptural to historical studies on him. I study hard to find answers for everything i don't get, and satan is something i can't solve, which is weird since Catholics do consider him fact.. nevertheless I place him in my undetermined list. I can go in detail on reasons for my skepticism, but we are already in a big debate.

Just one thing, that line "satan's main goal is to make people not believe in him" is only from the movie End of Days (and that Anthony Hopkins movie). No where in the Bible does it warn that.

yeshuaslavejeff said:

God destroyed all the naions that sought to harm Israel.
God let Adam and Chavah sin, knowing how many billions woud perish forever .
God let the enemy host / start/ continue wars , just in the last 200 years,
that killed millions.
God let corporations and countries , under the beast system being prepared,
create hunger to the point of starving millions of children, as well as thousands dying every day of thirst/ dehydration.

To all who know and believe the TRUTH,
God is Perfectly Righteous and Just

Deuteronomy 32:4

“He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.”

King James Version (KJV)

To all who reject the TRUTH, He has stored up His wrath.

Click to expand...

You just gave an argument to support an evil god. Please stop your militant/radical christianity. It's not only disgusting but it's making me lose IQ points.

QUOTE="Cis.jd, post: 73571872, member: 382775"]Yes. I've read the Bible. I've read and done all sorts of scriptural to historical studies on him. I study hard to find answers for everything i don't get, and satan is something i can't solve, which is weird since Catholics do consider him fact.. nevertheless I place him in my undetermined list. I can go in detail on reasons for my skepticism, but we are already in a big debate.

Just one thing, that line "satan's main goal is to make people not believe in him" is only from the movie End of Days (and that Anthony Hopkins movie). No where in the Bible does it warn that.[/QUOTE
========================================
The Bible shows clearly that the enemy deceives the "whole world".
Since the TRUTH is that the prince of the power of the air controls the sons of disobedience (the whole world),
what then is it to deceive the whole world, except , in part, to get them to believe he doesn't even exist ? The Scripture is very clear. But,
without trusting God's Word, what God Says, you won't "get it" nor be able to "solve" it.
=====================================

Cis.jd said:

You just gave an argument to support an evil god. Please stop your militant/radical christianity. It's not only disgusting but it's making me lose IQ points.

Click to expand...

Woe to you who call righteousness evil,
and woe to all who call wickedness good.

There is a great war right now. Greater than ever before - spiritually first, and all over the world.

NON-Radical religion is false religion (by your definition)

NO iq points needed -

ABBA YAHWEH REVEALS the truth to little children, as HIS WORD SAYS!!
and hides it from the "educated ones" .....

yeshuaslavejeff said:

QUOTE="Cis.jd, post: 73571872, member: 382775"]Yes. I've read the Bible. I've read and done all sorts of scriptural to historical studies on him. I study hard to find answers for everything i don't get, and satan is something i can't solve, which is weird since Catholics do consider him fact.. nevertheless I place him in my undetermined list. I can go in detail on reasons for my skepticism, but we are already in a big debate.

Just one thing, that line "satan's main goal is to make people not believe in him" is only from the movie End of Days (and that Anthony Hopkins movie). No where in the Bible does it warn that.[/QUOTE
========================================
The Bible shows clearly that the enemy deceives the "whole world".
Since the TRUTH is that the prince of the power of the air controls the sons of disobedience (the whole world),
what then is it to deceive the whole world, except , in part, to get them to believe he doesn't even exist ? The Scripture is very clear. But,
without trusting God's Word, what God Says, you won't "get it" nor be able to "solve" it.
=====================================

Woe to you who call righteousness evil,
and woe to all who call wickedness good.

There is a great war right now. Greater than ever before - spiritually first, and all over the world.

NON-Radical religion is false religion (by your definition)

NO iq points needed -

ABBA YAHWEH REVEALS the truth to little children, as HIS WORD SAYS!!
and hides it from the "educated ones" .....

Click to expand...

But you don't know truth at all, you've lost nearly every debate and you portray a hateful message and a evil god. Just stop. Go do some studying, and praying, first because you are obviously so desperate to "refute me" and legitimize your militant like ego. You are a radical, and yes radical religions are not just false-religions but cancerous religions.