Tharseo

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I didn't say "consistently and unexpectedly."

I said "consistently unexpectedly."

We should love those who we are unexpected to love, and we should do that not on rare occasions, but as a matter of commonality.

Christ told us who to love, which includes loving God--who by our nature is also difficult to love or obey.

It's a matter of merely following instructions.

Sorry. My apologies. You see, I am not a native English speaker and am really bad at these things. :(

Anyway, that is not clear enough. How common it should be? Three times a week, is it enough? Should it become a full time job for me? Should I go to the streets and give all my money to the beggars now?

I hope you understand that I am not trying to criticize you, but I want you to think. How do you personally apply what you just said?
 
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NeedyFollower

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God brought me to the place where I saw that all of my obedience to His commands was not out of love for Him, out of a deep passion to know and walk with Him, but out of fidelity to a belief system. What was worse, I knew I couldn't force myself to love Him. Love, after all, is not love if it is coerced. But how was I going to change my heart in this regard? Surely, if mere knowledge of God's love was the key to loving Him, I should have been a great lover of God. But I wasn't. What was wrong? Was I even saved? I wondered seriously if I was. Eventually, God helped me to understand that the love He wanted from me He had to first give to me. My human love was too selfish, too contingent, too compromised by sin, to be of any interest to Him. No, God wants His perfect, holy, faithful agape love from me, not my own human love. And so, I began to pray and ask God to give His love to me, to make me a lover of Him. Being a kind Heavenly Father, He showed me that He had already answered my prayer when I was born-again by the Holy Spirit. In the Spirit, I had received from God His perfect, holy, faithful love. I had only to yield to the Spirit manifesting his love in me for my prayer to be answered.
Yes ! Praying without desire is akin to " having to go visit your parents " verses wanting to see them . Through devotion , my prayers can often become " a father's day card " sent out of duty ...what you would ascribe to as duty or the obedience that is currently being debated . No , real love comes from the Father ...we can only give back that which comes from Him FOR US . ( Or came from Him when Jesus ascended to the Father . ) The only thing we have in common with God , is God by and through His Holy Spirit . It is why we MUST be born again by the will of God and not man . And that works thanksgiving and humility ...not false humility but the humility which comes from Him knowing it is but by grace lest any man boast . This is different than a theological assessment and is why Jesus said , " The publicans and harlots enter the kingdom ahead of you . I have not read all of your post but I must agree with the TRUTH . And of course we must take heed that we don't bite and devour one another which may arise from forgetting that even the slightest light we have was given by Him .
 
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NeedyFollower

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I don't find my case similar to this. It is true that I was not loving God at that time, but I do constantly experience the love of God. He works wonders in me and gives me what I asked for, whether I asked for the fruit of the Spirit or I asked God to help people I loved. The love of God is very clear to me, and it drives me to ask for more of it, and it drives me to love others. I do love others because God loves me.

The problem is, I was "using" the love of God for my own desire, even if my desires are some spiritual things. When I prayed for the benefit of others, it is me who want to love. I will still call this love, because it actually helped me to understand what is the meaning to love God. If I have never loved others like how I described, I would never come close to understand what "love" actually means. Sure I have read 1 Corinthians 13 at that time, but they were words to me and I really did not understand until I love other people.



Thank you. Now I understand what happened to the Church in Ephesus. They have did a lot of things right, but did so without loving God.

I don't consider my case a complete failure, however, nor the church in Ephesus. Jesus still praises the church of their good things they have, and is certainly not in vain. But when the time comes, they will have to realize that what they did is wrong. Maybe God wants to teach us these things one step at a time, I don't know.
Oh hello my dear brother in China ...I am so actually encouraged by Jesus' admonition to the churches since all but one he tells to repent and so that means that repentance of the church is very possible . It is necessary but also possible . And to my understanding , repentance is turning to God / eternity / life /love and away from death. It is interesting that Jesus says that his commands are not burdensome and so we understand that love is not burdensome . But sometimes love is painful because we care about those who do not love ...we are concerned for their well being ...we are alarmed . To be dead is to not care I guess . Grace and peace through and by our Lord Jesus Christ .
 
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Tharseo

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Oh hello my dear brother in China ...

Thank you for being so kind. :) And thanks for sharing.

It is interesting that Jesus says that his commands are not burdensome and so we understand that love is not burdensome. But sometimes love is painful because we care about those who do not love ...we are concerned for their well being ...we are alarmed .

I think I never relate the two things you said. I personally sometimes find loving people who I really concern about is painful, but burdensome is never the word to describe it. I don't know why, actually, when I think about it now. Maybe it is God who makes me want to give what I have than to care about what I have given up.

To be dead is to not care I guess .

What do you mean, "not to care"? What makes you think so?
 
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RDKirk

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Sorry. My apologies. You see, I am not a native English speaker and am really bad at these things. :(

Anyway, that is not clear enough. How common it should be? Three times a week, is it enough? Should it become a full time job for me? Should I go to the streets and give all my money to the beggars now?

I hope you understand that I am not trying to criticize you, but I want you to think. How do you personally apply what you just said?

As the Holy Spirit bids.
 
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NeedyFollower

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Thank you for being so kind. :) And thanks for sharing.



I think I never relate the two things you said. I personally sometimes find loving people who I really concern about is painful, but burdensome is never the word to describe it. I don't know why, actually, when I think about it now. Maybe it is God who makes me want to give what I have than to care about what I have given up.



What do you mean, "not to care"? What makes you think so?
Well ..before the Lord came and found me , I was not unhappy . I was very wealthy and had a "fun" life but in reality , I was dead in my trespasses and sin. I had lots of ideas about religion and would have considered myself a christian , but I had no concern for anyone's eternal well being ( not even my own ) ..nor could I . Now I care. I am concerned . Now I often am grieved . I do have joy in the Lord but am also very sad at times as I believe the reality would dictate . I believe the Holy Spirit of God ( in me ) is grieved as indeed He must be. So, whereas before I was dead and did not care about ungodliness and the lostness I see around me , now I do.... as I must . Does that make sense ?
 
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StevenMerten

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Matthew 22:37-38: And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment.

How do you love God in your life? I am curious to know.

To break down this question, I would ask the following:

1. How do you love God, when we cannot love Him like other people because God cannot be seen, and because God has nothing that requires our help?
2. Do you love God by loving other people as yourself? If so, do you think that by doing so, you fulfil the commandment to love God?
3. What helps you to love God to a greater extent?

I have my answers, but I want to hear from you all.

I look forward to seeing some constructive answers, but not focusing on theological debates.

Edit: I have given my own answer in the following post. I apologise to those who think I should give my answer before asking. You are right to think so.

Hello Tharseo,
I think it is easier to understand how to love Jesus, once we understand Jesus' teaching on how to hate Jesus. Jesus teaches us that to love Him and the Father means to obey God's Commandments. In Old Testament and New Testament, God's Great Commandments, to love God with all your heart, mind, strength and soul, and to love your neighbor as yourself, are given to sum up God's Ten Commandments, laws and precepts. Of the four times scriptures present Jesus with the Question, 'What must I do to share in everlasting life?', three times Jesus tells us to Obey God's Commandments, two times Jesus tells us to love God. Obeying God and loving God are one in the same.

John 15:22
"If I had not come to them and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin; now, however, their sin cannot be excused. To hate me is to hate my Father. Had I not performed such works among them as no one has ever done before, they would not be guilty of sin; but as it is, they have seen, and they go on hating me and my Father."

1 John 5:3
For the love of God is this, that we keep his commandments.
And his commandments are not burdensome,

John 14:15
If you love me, you will keep my commandments.

If there is a way to bring love for God into existence without free will, then why did our loving God allow free will? Murder, the holocaust, abortion, all atrocities, death and damnation all flow out from man's free will. God initiated man's free will and God can end man's free will at any time. If there is a way to love God without putting man in danger of damnation, why did our loving God put man in danger of damnation by allowing him free will?

God cannot force love for God into existence through His Immense Power. Love, by its very nature, must be freely given from one being to another. Love for God emanates through the power of free willed human choices to obey God. The only thing in the universe worth allowing hatred, sin and damnation for, is Love! God allows human free willed hatred in order to make human free willed love for God possible.

Free from the will of God, obedience to the will of God, is love for God. The Ten Commandments are God's instructions on how love for God is accomplished. The reason God does not force men to act as He commands is so that man can love God through choosing to do as God commands. Free will toward the commandments of God gives us the tremendous opportunity to love God.

Deuteronomy 11:1
Love the LORD, your God, therefore, and always heed his charge: his statutes, decrees and commandments.
"

Romans 13:10
Love never wrongs the neighbor, hence love is the fulfillment of the law.

John 14:23

Jesus answered and said to him, "Whoever loves me will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our dwelling with him.Whoever does not love me does not keep my words; yet the word you hear is not mine but that of the Father who sent me.

John 15:9
"As the Father has loved me, so I have loved you. Live on in my love. You will live in my love if you keep my commandments, even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and live in his love. All this I tell you that my joy may be yours and your joy may be complete. This is my commandment: love one another as I have loved you. There is no greater love than this: to lay down one's life for one's friends. You are my friends if you do what I command you."

1 John 2:5
But whoever keeps his word, truly has the love of God been made perfect in him. The way we can be sure we are in union with him is for the man who claims to abide in him to conduct himself just as he did.

2 John 1:5

But now, my Lady, I would make this request of you (not as if I were writing you some new commandment; rather, it is a commandment we have had from the start): let us love one another. This love involves our walking according to the commandments, and as you have heard from the beginning, the commandment is the way in which you should walk.

1 John 3:23

His commandment is this: we are to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and are to love one another as he commanded us.

Deuteronomy 11:22

"For if you are careful to observe all these commandments I enjoin on you, loving the LORD, your God, and following his ways exactly, and holding fast to him, . . . . "

Luke 10:25
On one occasion a lawyer stood up to pose him this problem: "Teacher, what must I do to inherit everlasting life?" Jesus answered him: "What is written in the law? How do you read it?" He replied:
"You shall love the Lord your God
with all your heart,
with all your soul,
with all your strength,
and with all your mind;
and your neighbor as yourself."

Jesus said, "You have answered correctly. Do this and you shall live."

Sirach 28:7
Think of the commandments, hate not your neighbor;


Deuteronomy 5:6
'I, the LORD, am your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery
. You shall not have other gods besides me. You shall not carve idols for yourselves in the shape of anything in the sky above or on the earth below or in the waters beneath the earth; you shall not bow down before them or worship them. For I, the LORD, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishments for their fathers' wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation but bestowing mercy, down to the thousandth generation, on the children of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Matthew 19:16
"Teacher, what good must I do to possess everlasting life?"
He answered, "Why do you question me about what is good? There is One who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." "Which ones?" he asked. Jesus replied "You shall not kill"; 'You shall not commit adultery'; 'You shall not steal'; 'You shall not bear false witness'; 'Honor your father and mother'; and 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

Concept Quoted from: Jesus, What Must I Do To Share In Everlasting Life?
 
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klutedavid

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Matthew 22:37-38: And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment.

How do you love God in your life? I am curious to know.

To break down this question, I would ask the following:

1. How do you love God, when we cannot love Him like other people because God cannot be seen, and because God has nothing that requires our help?
2. Do you love God by loving other people as yourself? If so, do you think that by doing so, you fulfil the commandment to love God?
3. What helps you to love God to a greater extent?

I have my answers, but I want to hear from you all.

I look forward to seeing some constructive answers, but not focusing on theological debates.

Edit: I have given my own answer in the following post. I apologise to those who think I should give my answer before asking. You are right to think so.
Simply, what you set your heart upon is what you love. If it is wealth then it obviously is not on God. If it is sport then it also is not God.

It reduces logically to what you devote your time on, what you devote your life to.
 
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