Doogie Howser?

DZoolander

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I've always had a tendency to re-litigate issues/conversations from the past in my mind. Dunno if it's a good thing or a bad thing...lol But, it is what it is.

When I was a teenager - my parents and I used to have this one topic that we disagreed upon that for the past few months (for a variety of reasons) has come up a lot in my thoughts during downtime. Outside of my folks back then - I've never really gotten anyone else's thoughts on the issue. So, I'm curious.

Say you had a child that was Doogie-Howser-esque (in case you're not familiar with the character - it's from a show a long time ago about a prodigy child who becomes an MD at a very early age) - who had the ability to progress very rapidly through school and end up in his/her career at a very early age. Say they had the ability to just skip past middle school and high school - going straight to university after elementary school to pursue their undergraduate and post graduate work...and be an MD/JD/Physicist/whatever by the time they were 17-18 years old...would you do it?

Would you promote that for them? Would you facilitate it? Would you let them?
 
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Quid est Veritas?

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No. I doubt they would be emotionally ready to burden such responsibility even with their intellectual faculties of such high order. It would also be robbing them of socio-cultural peer groups and disconnect them from normal development. I assume it would be psychologically somewhat dysfunctional or jarring.

Rather let them be bored in school or whatnot. They can then utilise their spare time for pursuits that interest them or leasure, rather than chasing a career.
 
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mama2one

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play is the work of children and how they learn


we let our child be a child
she still likes to play and is creative and artistic

know a child who is on "advanced track" by parents
the child hasn't played in years and seems like a mini adult

both same age and time will tell which parenting is best
maybe each is best for the particular child?

but I like to see kids be kids and not rushed to be an adult
 
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nonaeroterraqueous

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No.
  1. Intellectual strength does not equal emotional maturity. The kid won't be ready for adulthood that quickly.
  2. Peter's Principle: the kid may be at the top of his class, now, but if you make him skip enough grades he'll eventually reach a point where he's just, "average." That equates to a lower achievement rating and not what you want.
  3. Intelligence is an ability to learn, but it's still always limited by exposure to new information. You can only expect the kid to be exposed to information at a reasonable rate, beyond which greater intelligence does not help. Once you hit that ceiling where information can't be poured into the kid any faster, the only solution is more time. That's where skipping grades hinders even the brightest of kids.
  4. Age discrimination: so your kid graduates from medical school with high honors at the age of nine. Do you really expect any hospital to hire a little kid? He could be the best in his field, but he will be discriminated against, by his patients/customers, if nothing else, and each new acquaintance represents a new hurdle to overcome. By the time the kid is old enough to look the part, his education will be a long time behind him, and possibly obsolete.
  5. So he takes a few more years to enter the workforce. Big deal. You're only talking about a few years extra income by rushing the kid. It's not worth the trouble.
  6. By not remaining with his peer group, the kid's chances of finding a spouse are greatly reduced. With it, the kid's chances of being happy in life are reduced.
  7. Intelligence does not guarantee ambition.
  8. Rushing the development process is well-known to cause developmental issues, even in unusually smart kids.
 
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Dave-W

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Would you promote that for them? Would you facilitate it? Would you let them?
When I was in college (1973-77) there were a few prodigies there that should have been in jr high or high school. They had a very difficult time adjusting to college life; one 16 yo college senior actually died in the steam tunnels playing D&D.

I don’t think it is worth it.
 
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DZoolander

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Ya know how there are usually recurring themes between you and your parents growing up? In my home, it was the idea of unfulfilled potential. My parents would always be all over me as to why I opted to do this or that (usually hanging out with my friends) over studying.

Growing up, I had a good friend that was that type of prodigy. He skipped straight from 7th grade to university, graduated in about 3 years, and then went straight to law school. He was the youngest person to ever pass the bar exam in my home state.

So, I was often compared to him by my folks. My dad was an attorney, and was very impressed by my friend. He'd come over, at 16, and be able to discuss nuances in this aspect of constitutional law, or this type of litigation, with my dad.

I'm sure you can see the direction it headed.

My stance at the time was that while I couldn't argue with them that I wasn't the most motivated guy in the world - and did my share of wasting time - that it was a mistake to compare me to him because I felt that his parents were doing him no favors allowing that to take place. I felt that there was something wrong with that picture - and that he was becoming maladjusted as a consequence of it. That there was something to be said for the normal social evolution of the individual - where they remain with their peers (and that he missed out on a ton of that). I felt that it would lead nowhere good.

As I rebelled more as a teenager, the more of a fixture my friend became, and the more we'd have that discussion. They felt I was completely off base, that he was well adjusted, that his parents would manage those issues properly, etc.

Well, I found out earlier this year that he died a few years back, apparently due to deteriorating health as a result of a methamphetamine addiction (I posted about it here a few months back when I found out about it). Since then, I find myself replaying a lot of those conversations with my folks in my head during downtime/etc.
 
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DZoolander

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Me too.

I think part of the reason why it's consumed a lot of my thoughts is because I'm pulled in a lot of different directions when I think about it - and in some directions I'm not particularly proud of. So I'm having a difficult time reconciling those things.

On the one hand, of course I feel badly for him. He was a big part of my life growing up - in a lot of ways (both as a friend and also due to my folks). I'm really sad that his life turned out that way.

At the same time though, I've got to admit there's a side of me that wishes my folks had lived long enough for us to revisit this conversation.

And that's the part that really is the rub for me. It bugs me that there's a side of me that would seek using what happened as a means to validate/vindicate my position back then. "For all of my supposed faults back then, I didn't bring myself to cardiac arrest by my early 40's due to a drug addiction that likely was the consequence of maladjustment that should have been foreseen."

But, it is there.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I've always had a tendency to re-litigate issues/conversations from the past in my mind. Dunno if it's a good thing or a bad thing...lol But, it is what it is.

When I was a teenager - my parents and I used to have this one topic that we disagreed upon that for the past few months (for a variety of reasons) has come up a lot in my thoughts during downtime. Outside of my folks back then - I've never really gotten anyone else's thoughts on the issue. So, I'm curious.

Say you had a child that was Doogie-Howser-esque (in case you're not familiar with the character - it's from a show a long time ago about a prodigy child who becomes an MD at a very early age) - who had the ability to progress very rapidly through school and end up in his/her career at a very early age. Say they had the ability to just skip past middle school and high school - going straight to university after elementary school to pursue their undergraduate and post graduate work...and be an MD/JD/Physicist/whatever by the time they were 17-18 years old...would you do it?

Would you promote that for them? Would you facilitate it? Would you let them?

If I had a prodigy as a child then I'd promote my prodigy's success as much as I could, but I'd also make sure that my little prodigy had some friends of the same age with whom to interact and develop.

In fact, in a sort of way, this is kind of what my wife and I have done since my child was recommended for advancement a year above his own age level when he was fairly young. What we did was keep him in the same grade, but we took big advantage of the various "advanced" opportunities that were offered by the public school system he was in. So, by the time he was a junior in high school he was taking actual college classes
 
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It's difficult. My youngest child was/is off the charts with his capabilities. He's also on the spectrum (AS). When he was about 6, we tried to get him tested to enter the gifted and talented program, but he was too stressed to do the test, so we dropped it. At various points during elementary/junior he was very bored and frustrated at school. He was always a clear mile ahead of the other kids with reading, writing, math etc. We put him into a private school where classes were small and there were other opportunities for excellence. He did really well, top of class etc., until 5th grade when issues with other kids caused him so much trouble that he just about dropped out. He stopped excelling, stopped trying, basically lost all his interest. He moved onto high school, had to repeat his freshman year after his AS (along with associated anxiety) had caused him so much stress that he hardly attended. Even the accommodations weren't helping, so we put him into an online high school for a year, and then he aced his GED without even studying and was done. We now moved back to Europe and he came with us (he's 18) and he's taking classes online with a US university. This is nothing like the way I thought life would pan out for this incredibly smart kid. I mean, when I say smart, he picks up languages like you wouldn't believe - French and Spanish like a native speaker. But he won't do anything with that capability (which drives me crazy but I keep my mouth shut). This is just one child, but it's not unusual that these advanced capabilities are often combined with a 'disability' such as autism, and it's often that, rather than the youth of the individual, that causes them problems through school.

So, having been through this, I wish I had done things far differently. I wish I had stepped back and not pushed my kid into competitive things at his school, or made too much (to him) of his abilities. I think that this added to his stress, and made him feel too different, and it's hard for kids to feel so much different to their peers. While it's good to encourage kids to study and aspire (I told all of mine that they would go to university, and they all have), I believe that they should nonetheless be allowed to be kids, and that parents need to step back and let them develop in their own time, at their own pace, and not push early university on them, or a career or whatever.

BTW, I've never seen Doogie Howser. Not even a single episode.
 
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Toro

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Depends on my child's ability to cope or what I felt the Spirit saying to me......

That said, as a general answer I wouldn't likely allow them to do that. Mostly because most examples of children with careers don't seem to grow up well adjusted. (Thats not to say it will always happen..... but childhood + adult responsibility + adult level money = train wreck life it seems more often than not.)

I would encourage them to pursue it in due time, I would encourage them to learn and study the field which interested them.... but I wouldn't likely allow them to put the cart before the horse. Just cause they are blessed with the knowledge to be a doctor early on, doesn't mean that they are to put it to use immediately. Jesus was always the son of God..... but even He had an appointed time to do what the Father sent Him to do.

Some times we can destroy a good thing by using it too early
 
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DZoolander

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Yeah, the friend of mine that passed was brilliant.

I remember, though, all throughout Jr. High talking to him about how it was like being at University. He had no friends (of course). I mean, what university kids are going to want to hang out with a 13 year old? Rather, a few friends of mine and I were his social outlet...and his mom.

As time progressed my friends and I started to move on with our own lives, which meant we talked to him less. And the more we kinda moved away, the closer he became to his mom and she became his primary social contact.

By the time I reached my early 20's - I found him difficult to hang out with. Mostly it was because by that time he was totally attached to the hip with his mom. I remember the last time we went out to see a movie. He came to my house to pick me up. Once he arrived, he called his mom to assure her that he'd arrived at my house safely. Then when we arrived at the movie theater - he used a payphone to call his mom and let her know that he'd arrived at the theater safely. Once the movie was over, he used the same phone to call her and tell her that the movie was good and that we were leaving. When we got back to my house he called to let her know that we'd arrived safely. Then we talked for a while with my folks - and when we were done he called her to let her know that he was safe and leaving.

At 21 - when I was in the midst of my own "growing up" and "distancing myself from my folks" - I had very little patience for that. When I turned 30 I met up with him for lunch once, and he called his mom at the start and end of the lunch.

When I found out he passed - I also found out that his mom apparently passed like 4-5 months later. TBH it didn't really surprise me - all things considered. They really did eventually grow to be each other's world - for all intents and purposes.

And IMHO - it all could be traced back to the sequence of events set forth by making that choice to move him into an environment (university) where by the very nature of what he was - he was excluded from pretty much everything and denied the opportunity to have a normal socialization process.
 
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