Christians: How do you reconcile the problem of evil?

Kim7229 said:

Thanks for the post. I am having a difficult time figuring out from your post how you reconcile the problem of evil. As I'm interested in learning how Christians reconcile the problem of evil, if you could answer this question, it would help me understand how you reconcile it: what do you suppose is the reason God doesn't prevent rapists from brutally raping children?

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I trust, which is what faith is, that God has his reasons; the full situation of our lives and the conditions we live in is not fully open to our scrutiny. You do not trust that God has his reasons, but that is an emotional response, not a logical one. No one has made a successful case of the POE because the burden required is far too great. If you think you are different in that, you underestimate the depth of what is required. Mere emotion is not sufficient except in making a speciously provocative case to which nothing needs reconciled against.

Now I ask you, how do you reconcile the fact that you will share the same fate of death, as the rapists and murderers who get away with their crimes? Especially when you feel inside that an invisible force of Justice should be pursuing them? How do you reconcile such notions if no object of that notion exists? But I tell you that an invisible force of Justice does exist, and if good people fail to rise upon this earth to do His will then evil will escape, but they will not flee through death. In death they will reap what they sowed upon this earth.

Spikey said:

So there are three options.. Either God is powerless to stop them, doesn't care or doesn't exist.

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You see only there options? How about God has knowledge of the consequences of actions that I do not possess and acts in the best interest of the whole when it seems to me with limited access to knowledge that he is not acting at all or refusing to act for the good or allowing bad to happen or causing bad to happen. . or God knows what actions will lead to the net well being and therefore refrains from actions that would lead to the lessening of the net well being? How about God is not powerless but self constrained allowing for a plan He has that leads to the ultimate good to be realized by not interfering when a temporary bad must be endured? So many possible options that I cannot list them all. I'm sure if you gave it more thought and used your imagination you could come up with more options as well.

Kim7229 said:

Now that I'm a non-believer, I wonder how Christians go about reconciling the problem of evil?

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I don't really take catastrophes personally, they are opportunities for good work if you want to help people or donate. Think of life like an obstacle course - a drunkard walks onto the course and says 'this is the worst walk in the park I have ever seen!' A marine-trainee walks onto the course and says 'this is perfect, this will prepare me for who I need to become'

All things that we have in this life, even the body, are temporary. My friends, my family, my body, my eyes, even the fingers I am typing with, they will all go away. What do you have left at the end? Only God and your own soul. So it's good to be at peace with those two things.

The real problem of evil comes from within. I think when Christ taught the Lord's Prayer,

"and deliver us from evil"

I don't think he was teaching us to pray to be delivered from the evils of the outside world. I think he was teaching us to pray for deliverance from the evils of the inside world

Mark 15:20-23

20 He continued: “What comes out of a man, that is what defiles him. 21 For from within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, 22 greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness. 23 All these evils come from within, and these are what defile a man.”

So how do I reconcile things like murderers and rapists? I try to make sure I'm not one of them. Evil comes in the absence of God. That's the lesson we are all here to learn, and it's something I have learned personally. If you'll remember, the name of the ride we are all on is called "Knowledge of Good and Evil". It makes more sense when I think about it that way.

Spikey said:

Speak for yourself.. If you view humanity in this way and think that children deserve suffering, then you have a warped sense of reality.

Don't be ridiculous.

So why create conditions for 'sin'?

But he loves you.

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Only by the grace of God on the church we are not all cannibals.

Kim7229 said:

I used to be a Christian.

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God says there is no such thing, else you would not have walked away.

Kim7229 said:

I attended church regularly, believed God existed and prayed regularly.

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Those things don't make a person a Christian.

Kim7229 said:

I wonder how Christians go about reconciling the problem of evil?

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By looking to the word of God.

Kim7229 said:

If God loves everyone and can do anything, then he must not know about catastrophes

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He do know about catastrophes. But God does not love everyone in the same way. We as creatures distinguish between different types of love. The love I have for God is different than the love I have for my wife. The love I have for my wife is different than the love I have for my daughter. The love I have for my daughter is different than the love I have for a stranger. If we can differentiate love, and we are mere creatures made in the image of God, than God differentiates His love, but in all the more perfect manner. God loves His adopted children in a very different way than He loves those who reject Him.

Kim7229 said:

If God loves everyone and knows everything, then he must be incapable of doing anything about catastrophes

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False presumption and false conclusion with a missing middle.

God restrains evil and control evil. God is involved in catastrophes and He uses them as means to display His glory, to save and to judge. The true question is not why evil exists in this world. The true question is why is their not far more evil in the world when man is in complete rebellion to God, such as yourself in your rejection of God. Why should God grant you good when you are in rebellion to Him by claiming that you used to be a Christian? God does not owe man anything good. God is not obligated to man, and yet God grants us grace everyday, simply by the beating of your heart and breathing His air.

Kim7229 said:

If God can do anything and knows everything, then he must not love the victims and their families enough to want to do anything.

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Another false conclusion. Why do you assume God is not doing anything?

Kim7229 said:

How do you reconcile it?

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God does not owe us good things, and sinful creatures who are by no means omniscient do not have any right to judge the holy and sovereign God in what He does with His creation.

grasping the after wind said:

You see only there options? How about God has knowledge of the consequences of actions that I do not possess and acts in the best interest of the whole when it seems to me with limited access to knowledge that he is not acting at all or refusing to act for the good or allowing bad to happen or causing bad to happen. . or God knows what actions will lead to the net well being and therefore refrains from actions that would lead to the lessening of the net well being? How about God is not powerless but self constrained allowing for a plan He has that leads to the ultimate good to be realized by not interfering when a temporary bad must be endured? So many possible options that I cannot list them all. I'm sure if you gave it more thought and used your imagination you could come up with more options as well.

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But at the end of the day.. If this is all in Gods plan then he knew exactly every outcome of every situation. This means that he either doesn't care about us, or he does care about us but is powerless to change anything about his plan..
Of course you can come up with more options like... He is evil and enjoys watching our suffering, or the God that is running the show is in fact not your God etc etc, but it doesn't change the fact that evil and suffering is tolerated by your God in your eyes, and you will justify that in some way no matter what.

Dave L said:

Only by the grace of God on the church we are not all cannibals.

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Saying it more than once doesn't make it sound any less ridiculous.

Spikey said:

Saying it more than once doesn't make it sound any less ridiculous.

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Jesus says; ““But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. “For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders. “These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man.”” (Matthew 15:18–20) (NASB95)

Dave L said:

Jesus says; ““But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. “For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders. “These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man.”” (Matthew 15:18–20) (NASB95)

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Funny how we managed to not deep fry, boil or snack on each other for the 198,000 years before Jesus...

Spikey said:

Funny how we managed to not deep fry, boil or snack on each other for the 198,000 years before Jesus...

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That's what I'm saying. God restrains the world from their potential wickedness for the sake of the elect (his church). When he removes the church on the last day, he destroys the world and everyone in fire.

joshua 1 9 said:

You can not blame God for that. He gives us a sound mind. "For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind." (1Timothy1:7) Every Sunday we pray: "Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven". Everyone in Heaven has a sound mind, we can have the mind of Christ. That is the journey we are on and the direction we are headed in. I ask myself all the time: Why does God allow this and why does God allow that? Slowly He shows me. We do not learn all at once. He writes the book of our life before we are even born. Every chapter and very verse is written. He has a plan for our life. It would be nice if we could get some help from our parents but that does not always seem to be the case. Perhaps you should ask them why they did not follow the Bible and God's plan?

Galatians: "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control.

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I think you missed my point - if I did blame God how could I say that I am "liberated"? For a good portion of my life I was very angry at Him and wore the "victim label" very well but slowly the Lord helped me put that away and become my own person with joy and a lot more peace. And by the way, my mom is great now but living with my dad was extremely traumatic - for both of us.

JoeP222w said:

Why do you assume God is not doing anything?

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Why should we think he is? There is no evidence that any occurrence anywhere has anything to do with any God as far as I know.
Give me an example of what you personally think God gets up to in his spare time.

God does not owe us good things, and sinful creatures who are by no means omniscient do not have any right to judge the holy and sovereign God in what He does with His creation.

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We do have the right... We have free will don't we??

Dave L said:

Only by the grace of God on the church we are not all cannibals.

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Fully stocked grocery stores in the cities help a lot too. One day the poor and the meek and the hungry are going to figure out how good rich folk taste

Dave L said:

That's what I'm saying. God restrains the world from their potential wickedness for the sake of the elect (his church). When he removes the church on the last day, he destroys the world and everyone in fire.

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So he's supressing our urges to eat each other? I always wondered why my mouth started to water at the sight of a meaty woman.

Spikey said:

So he's supressing our urges to eat each other? I always wondered why my mouth started to water at the sight of a meaty woman.

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If you ever find yourself doing the unthinkable, keep what I said in mind.

Petros2015 said:

Fully stocked grocery stores in the cities help a lot too. One day the poor and the meek and the hungry are going to figure out how good rich folk taste

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Have you ever read in the bible how people revert to cannibalism when food runs out? It even happens now occasionally. But refined mothers eating their young?

Dave L said:

Have you ever read in the bible how people revert to cannibalism when food runs out? It even happens now occasionally. But refined mothers eating their young?

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Human nature is generally to follow the path of least resistance. Society and some sort of spiritual beliefs provide resistance to doing those sorts of things. I have no doubt that humans in general (of which I am one) are capable of cannibalism.

On Easter Island, after they deforested all the trees (oops! was that the last one?!?) the island descended into cannibalism. A popular curse/insult translated roughly into: 'the flesh of your mother sticks in my teeth!'

Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed - Wikipedia

Spikey said:

Why should we think he is? There is no evidence that any occurrence anywhere has anything to do with any God as far as I know.

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Do you accept the Bible as the inerrant word of God?

Your profile says "Atheist", so I think can assume you reject the Bible. If you reject the Bible as truth, no amount of evidence will satisfy you, and apart from God, you have no standard of truth, since you reject the source of truth. You are also making a false claim of omniscience, that you have examined all evidence everywhere your use of the universal negative of "no evidence..."

Evidence is for those believe and trust in God, not rebel sinners who reject God.

Spikey said:

Give me an example of what you personally think God gets up to in his spare time.

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No, as you claim to be an Atheist, I refuse to put you on the Judge's bench in your blasphemous courtroom. You are the creature, not the Creator.

Spikey said:

We do have the right... We have free will don't we??

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You don't have the right to judge God.

No, the creature does not have autonomous free will. You are enslaved to your sinful nature until God does a work of grace on your heart.

JoeP222w said:

Do you accept the Bible as the inerrant word of God?

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No, of course not.

Your profile says "Atheist", so I think can assume you reject the Bible. If you reject the Bible as truth, no amount of evidence will satisfy you

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Because I reject the bible as any form of evidence for a God, that doesn't mean I'm not open to evidence for a God full stop.

and apart from God, you have no standard of truth, since you reject the source of truth.

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My standard for truth is quite a simple one.. If it makes sense and is verifiable go with it, if not question it.

You are also making a false claim of omniscience, that you have examined all evidence everywhere your use of the universal negative of "no evidence..."

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I'm not making that claim.. I simply said that judging upon the evidence I have seen, that I have no good reason to believe that a God exists

Evidence is for those believe and trust in God, not rebel sinners who reject God.

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So clear evidence comes after belief? Seems a bit back to front.

Spikey said:

No, of course not.

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Then you have no grounds on which to evaluate truth, especially the truth of God.

Spikey said:

Because I reject the bible as any form of evidence for a God, that doesn't mean I'm not open to evidence for a God full stop.

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Actually it does. God has revealed Himself generally through all of Creation and specifically through His inerrant word of the Bible. If you reject the Bible, you can't know God.

Spikey said:

If it makes sense and is verifiable go with it, if not question it.

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"if it makes sense" sounds like an appeal to you as the ultimate authority.

Spikey said:

So clear evidence comes after belief? Seems a bit back to front.

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No. But understanding and knowing God comes only from His work of grace in the heart of the believer.