Climate change, deforestation, mass extinction...

smaneck

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Homo Sapiens wiped out Mega-fauna throughout the world, not just in Australia. We are talking about something that happened there 50,000 years ago in Australia and 11,000 years ago in the Americas. But I agree we tend to romanticize the relationship indigenous people had with nature. But your statistics are ridiculous. You would have us believe that 7/8 of the world's population has been started to death by controls placed on chemical use in agriculture. Were that the case there would only be one billion of us left, instead of 8 billion.
 
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Jane_the_Bane

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Speaking in terms of ecology:
of course, a decrease in predators and food competitors is "good" for a species in the short run. It means more offspring, more population growth, a lower mortality rate, etc.
But what happens when a species is in a situation where virtually all regulating mechanisms within its ecological niche are switched off?
Overpopulation, with disastrous consequences that ultimately wipe out vast portions of the "flourishing" species. There's a limited carrying capacity, and ecological collapse is NOT beneficial.
Sure, our species has got the unique capability to try to turn natural environments into cultural landscapes, basically constructing artificial prostheses specifically aimed at promoting our species' proliferation: dams to create farmland where there was formerly just ocean floor. Canals to dry out a swamp. Water pipes to bring water to arid zones. Special homes to withstand the cold winters of the arctic regions.

But there's a limit, and we're currently heading for it at breakneck speed.
Up until the 1800s, human population growth was slow, but relatively steady:
200 years ago there were less than one billion people in the entire world - now, we are heading for 8 billion. And it's not just people, either: especially industrialized nations use up more natural resources than the ecosphere can sustain. This year, we reached the maximum sustainable amount somewhere around March: we'd literally need two to three planets to maintain our current consumption rate.

Environmental degradation is not a walk in the park. Systemic collapse hurts US as well. Sadly, those most responsible for it will be the ones who'll feel the consequences the least, like French pre-revolutionary aristocrats wondering why everybody's complaining about food shortages when all they have to worry about is whether oysters are still in season.
 
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Jane_the_Bane

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There have been several civilizations throughout recorded (and unrecorded) history that apparently collapsed due to their disastrous effect upon the environment.

The Easter Islands, the Mayans, the Angkor empire, etc.

Everything they did seems almost inconsequential compared to the massive mess we've been producing for the last 200 years.
 
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dlamberth

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"A century ago, only 15% of Earth’s surface was used to grow crops and raise livestock1. Today, more than 77% of land (excluding Antarctica) and 87% of the ocean has been modified by the direct effects of human activities2,3. This is illustrated in our global map of intact ecosystems (see ‘What’s left?’).

"Between 1993 and 2009, an area of terrestrial wilderness larger than India — a staggering 3.3 million square kilometres — was lost to human settlement, farming, mining and other pressures4. In the ocean, areas that are free of industrial fishing, pollution and shipping are almost completely confined to the polar regions."

Much of what remains wild is desert, including arctic desert, in the far North of Canada and Asia, and in Australia, Tibet and the Sahara. https://www.nature.com/

What's Left.jpg
 
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Erik Nelson

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How fertiliser helped feed the world
if we farmed with the best techniques available in Fritz Haber's time, the earth would support about four billion people.

So, without exaggerating, about half (4 of 8 billion) of the world's present population relies on artificial ammonia-based fertilizers.
And, everyone knows, that about all (8 of 8 billion) of the world's population relies on farming, in some form. The number of hunter-gatherers is (comparatively) miniscule.
 
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Erik Nelson

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There have been several civilizations throughout recorded (and unrecorded) history that apparently collapsed due to their disastrous effect upon the environment.

The Easter Islands, the Mayans, the Angkor empire, etc.

Everything they did seems almost inconsequential compared to the massive mess we've been producing for the last 200 years.
astronauts on the ISS are (surely) very careful not to muck up their station's systems & environment, 'cause if they do they are waaaaay out of luck
"spaceship earth" (which, having no propulsion, is not a ship but a barge or life raft) is essentially the same thing, a lone outpost adrift in an endless expanse of uninhabitability
having no "plan B", we had better maintain what we're fortunate to have wound up with
but we need to be smart, not letting passionate ideals carry us away
much of what people seem to say is not fully thought through -- the Russians scorched all the earth from Poland to the Urals in WWII to deny anything to those invading their lands... are they guilty of "crimes against Nature", too?
maybe it's just me, but it seems like people get carried way away, letting ideals get to their heads... it will be the "sapiens" part of "homo sapiens" that just might save the day (telling us how to do, what our hearts instinctively know would be good, i.e. balanced management & stewardship of natural resources)
 
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dlamberth

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Environment fear inappropriate content.
Brainwashing us for decades now.
...gleefully said as the pollutions and poisons we have dumped into the Earth are returning the favor as we Human Beings are now being killed by those very same environmental desecration's.
 
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dlamberth

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maybe it's just me, but it seems like people get carried way away, letting ideals get to their heads... it will be the "sapiens" part of "homo sapiens" that just might save the day (telling us how to do, what our hearts instinctively know would be good, i.e. balanced management & stewardship of natural resources)
I for one do not believe that will ever happen, at least not until we develop a sense of sacredness for the Earth.
 
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Hieronymus

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...gleefully said as the pollutions and poisons we have dumped into the Earth are returning the favor as we Human Beings are now being killed by those very same environmental desecration's.
Hey, i'm not saying it's all nonsense.
I'm just saying that it's not all true.
And as for "we", that's not how the world works.
"Some" decide how things are done. "We" have little choice usually.
But to be more specific, at the moment it's all "CO2 is bad!" now.
Ironically CO2 is very good for plants and trees, who make fibres and oxigen of it.
That's why it's called greenhouse gas, they use it in green houses to grow crops (often a by product of the heating system in a greenhouse)
So much for green energy then 'ey?
But they use this "CO2 threat" to ruin industries now.
The excuse is that they CLAIM it raises CO2 levels which causes global warming.
That would still be good for the green things on earth though.
Also, more organisms die of cold than of heat.
But it's called climate change now, since people are finding out there is no global warming...
Never mind the sun activity that causes climate change...
Oh, and they do geo engineering too.
Once dismissed as a "conspiracy theory" the chem trails we see daily are now geo engineering.
And there's much more "some" can do and DO do to mess with the weather.
Spraying poisonous metal nano particles is just one of the things they can do.
They can use things like HAARP to change the skies (clouds, winds etc..)
But they package it all to make western citizens feel guilty for existing.
It works too!
 
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Jane_the_Bane

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Oh man, not these propagandistic half-truths and downright lies again.

Where to start?
1. They call it "climate change" now because the effects caused by global warming extend to weather phenomena you wouldn't usually associate with a temperature increase.
For example, the temperature increase disrupts the polar jetstreams in the upper atmosphere, potentially creating an "arctic vortex" weather phenomenon where it's colder near the equator than at the north pole. Likewise, disrupted oceanic currents can have similarly devastating effects, such as "El Nino".

2. It doesn't take a genius level intellect to figure out that releasing massive amounts of pollutants (including CO2 that was formerly bound in the form of coal and petroleum) is bad news, especially when coupled with other effects of industrialized overconsumption such as deforestation, the industrialized meat industry and several others. While it is true that we exhale CO2 and plant life needs the stuff, our massive burning of non-regenerative resources demonstrably disturbs the equilibrium. Like having a well that releases 20,000 gallons per year, but adding 21,000 gallons of water in the same time. You won't feel the effect at first, but keep it up for more than a century, and you'll get more than just wet feet.

3. Follow the money. There's no money in "ruining industries", but there IS loads of money in convincing people such as yourself that everything is a-okay and you should keep up the "good work" of overconsumption.
 
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Eyes wide Open

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How fertiliser helped feed the world
if we farmed with the best techniques available in Fritz Haber's time, the earth would support about four billion people.

So, without exaggerating, about half (4 of 8 billion) of the world's present population relies on artificial ammonia-based fertilizers.
And, everyone knows, that about all (8 of 8 billion) of the world's population relies on farming, in some form. The number of hunter-gatherers is (comparatively) miniscule.

The point you fail to miss is that we wouldn’t be farming like we did in Fritz Habers time, we have a much better scientific model and understanding of crop yields, crop rotation, the impact of fertilisers on the soil over long term use, and the impact those fertilisers have on the environment over time.

Things don’t change overnight, it takes decades to change people’s habits and perceptions, so there would’nt be an instant point where it’s ‘all organic’ and oh bugger, we can’t feed everybody, it’s a transferance to more healthy practices over a long time. “Be the change you want to see in the world” as Gandhi once said, but people don’t like change, it’s more... I’m alright jack!

Consumers have the power with what they purchase, they can control governments, corporations and farmers because they have the money to spend.


Strategies for feeding the world more sustainably with organic agriculture
 
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Eyes wide Open

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I for one do not believe that will ever happen, at least not until we develop a sense of sacredness for the Earth.

It doesn’t even need that, (although I agree it would be great) just that we take responsibility for what we create on an individual basis and the processes involved in the creative process for things provided in our lives.
 
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dlamberth

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It doesn’t even need that, (although I agree it would be great) just that we take responsibility for what we create on an individual basis and the processes involved in the creative process for things provided in our lives.
The thing is, I don't believe we as a people will take responsibility until we find a way to experience the Earth as something special, even sacred.
 
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Eyes wide Open

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The thing is, I don't believe we as a people will take responsibility until we find a way to experience the Earth as something special, even sacred.

Perhaps not. I’m bias myself by my own experience of the sacredness that you mention. But I do see the scientific framework as a way for people to see their connection to the world and how everything is an ecosystem and works in relation to something else, but education needs to be heightened in that regard more fully. We shall see
 
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Erik Nelson

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I for one do not believe that will ever happen, at least not until we develop a sense of sacredness for the Earth.
People really ought to recognize that we have exactly one "spaceship Earth". We don't have a backup we don't have a Plan B. And if we muck up our glorified "space station" We've doomed ourselves.

I really cherish this Windows Phone. Because there are no more Windows Phones on the market. I don't necessarily view this Windows Phone is sacred even though I cherish it. But I suppose better safe than sorry.
 
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dlamberth

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Perhaps not. I’m bias myself by my own experience of the sacredness that you mention. But I do see the scientific framework as a way for people to see their connection to the world and how everything is an ecosystem and works in relation to something else, but education needs to be heightened in that regard more fully. We shall see
I totally agree with you in every way. But at the same time, isn't seeing the "connection to the world and how everything is an ecosystem and works in relation to something else", isn't that something that creates a type of sacredness of the Earth in a person? The life in the biosphere of the Earth, which as you say we learn through education, is something very special. It can become special enough to protect and take care of because we see something in it that touches us. Yes through education. But built into that feeling of speciallness still feels like a sense of sacredness to me.
 
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Eyes wide Open

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I totally agree with you in every way. But at the same time, isn't seeing the "connection to the world and how everything is an ecosystem and works in relation to something else", isn't that something that creates a type of sacredness of the Earth in a person? The life in the biosphere of the Earth, which as you say we learn through education, is something very special. It can become special enough to protect and take care of because we see something in it that touches us. Yes through education. But built into that feeling of speciallness still feels like a sense of sacredness to me.

For sure, whatever gets you there, gets you there, it matters not the framework.
My route was not the scientific framework, but from my own experience that I had, I see science as a great work in progress, a gift that has yet to be fully unfolded. I suppose I related your words ‘develop a sense of sacredness’ to be a more esoteric suggestion, a direct knowledge of that connectedness, but I jumped the gun perhaps, I see we are on the same page.
 
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