The Adam and Eve are in devorce, so it is time to revise the Methodology of Science

Aman777 said:

Is this the Donald? Either produce your evidence (post) where you have refuted (proven wrong) my view or everyone will see that you are Trump, or at least Trumpian (compulsive falsehood preacher). Waiting...Just post it here...but I won't hold my breath. Amen?

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I already did... and you just ignore it. You couldn't counter my arguments, so you deflected and ignored.

I don't know what kind of -ian this makes you... but for me it is not the way someone who is interested in "truth" should behave.

Yes, your view has been refuted. Specifically, your view that your position is backed by scripture, science and history.

Scripture doesn't say anything like what you claim. Your position is based on arbitrarily inserting your own inventions into scripture to adapt it to your claims, based on some equally arbitrary picking, choosing and interpreting completely unrelated verses. Well, I give you that here: this is good old Christian tradition. But because it works for just every fancy claim you want to make, it "supports" none.

And as I have already shown: "history" and science contradicts your claims... something that you had to admit for yourself.

Freodin said:

And as I have already shown: "history" and science contradicts your claims... something that you had to admit for yourself.

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Then post your refute. I know you cannot but others here don't know whether you are telling the Truth or not. I do, so I know you have nothing but bluff to confirm your statements. Now, the others here do. Maybe if you would change your screen name...

Aman777 said:

Then post your refute. I know you cannot but others here don't know whether you are telling the Truth or not. I do, so I know you have nothing but bluff to confirm your statements. Now, the others here do. Maybe if you would change your screen name...

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I don't know about "others". I dare say that most people have better reading comprehension than you, and if they followed out little conversation, they will have already gotten it.

But just for your sake...

Aman777 said:

[...] the sons of God (prehistoric people) [...] were NOT Humans as today's science has classified them.

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Freodin said:

"Today's science" classifies modern human as having been around for at least 300,000 years.

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You acknowledge that here:

Aman777 said:

Current Science claims that Humans diverged from Chimps 6 million years ago, but that is impossible since Humans (descendants of Adam) arrived on planet Earth only 11k years ago.

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And you acknowledged that your version does not conform to the "claims of current science".

So quite obvious, "science" does not support your position.

"History": You quoted from the wiki-article about Mesopotamia.

Wiki:>>Mesopotamia is the site of the earliest developments of the Neolithic Revolutionfrom around 10,000 BC. It has been identified as having "inspired some of the most important developments in human history including the invention of the wheel, the planting of the first cereal crops and the development of cursive script, mathematics, astronomy and agriculture".[2]

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Yes, that is true. But you ignore two things in this context.
First, the existence of precursors for a lot of these developements... they didn't spring up from nothing. In this case, the existence of human settlements thousands of years before your fictious ark-landing, the previous usage of cereals and the domestication of animals.

Second, the time-frame of these "most important developements in human history".
The developement of agriculture - the planting of crops - happened somewhere around this era, in this region. But this overall "Neolithic Revolution" (a term that "today's science rejects as inaccurate) took several thousand years. Between the first "cities" and "planting of the first cereal crops" and "script, mathematics, astronomy" and a lot of other "most important developements" is a gap of 5000 years and more.

The "First Humans" of yours, with their "superior intelligence", who had all these inventions already in their "old earth" would have landed here, build cities and planted crops. But it took them 5000 years to reinvent the wheel.
They even planted grapes and made wine... but it took them several thousand years before they could produce decent pottery to keep the wine in.

So, quite obviously, "history" does not support your position.

"Scripture":
If you consider the narrative in Genesis 6-8 to be correct, the line of events is quite clear. Noah and his family live on earth - this earth is flooded - the waters cover everything - Noah and folk float around in their big boat on this very earth - the waters recide - the ark lands, Noah gets out and discovers that the land is again dry.

There is absolutely no mention - not even an implication - that a whole "earth" landed somewhere and sank into a sea. This is exclusively your invention.

So, no, "scripture" does not support your position either.

Aman777 said: ↑
Current Science claims that Humans diverged from Chimps 6 million years ago, but that is impossible since Humans (descendants of Adam) arrived on planet Earth only 11k years ago.

Freodin said:

And you acknowledged that your version does not conform to the "claims of current science".

So quite obvious, "science" does not support your position.

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False, since we are not speaking of scientific facts but of the false assumptions of the ToE. The ToE does Not know the difference between prehistoric people and Humans (descendants of Adam). In their confusion they lump the two together. God shows us the separation between the "kinds".

Freodin said:

"History": You quoted from the wiki-article about Mesopotamia.

Yes, that is true. But you ignore two things in this context.
First, the existence of precursors for a lot of these developements... they didn't spring up from nothing. In this case, the existence of human settlements thousands of years before your fictious ark-landing, the previous usage of cereals and the domestication of animals.

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For more than 99% of the time since prehistoric people diverged from Chimps, they remained the same as any other creature whose origin was in water. They chased other animals to eat and slept in caves. They were as smart as Nature could make them but since Nature has NO intelligence but is a neutral concept of man they remained the same as 4 million years ago when Lucy stood upright.

SUDDENLY, in the same area as the mountains of Ararat, Human farming began, then city building for Noah's descendants, then math and every other trait which Humans FIRST demonstrated on Adam's world. Genesis 4:17-22 They were Cain's descendants with a Human for a father and a prehistoric woman for a mother, since there was NO other Human for Cain, Adam's son, to marry. The same thing happened on the present Earth with Noah's grandsons who had NO other Human (descendant of Adam) to marry, but here we are today, typing on a computer exactly as Genesis 6:4 details.

Freodin said:

Second, the time-frame of these "most important developements in human history".
The developement of agriculture - the planting of crops - happened somewhere around this era, in this region. But this overall "Neolithic Revolution" (a term that "today's science rejects as inaccurate) took several thousand years. Between the first "cities" and "planting of the first cereal crops" and "script, mathematics, astronomy" and a lot of other "most important developements" is a gap of 5000 years and more.

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Amen. It's a big world with no transportation system at the time. Can you tell us how Humans (descendants of Adam) got around the world so quick that many historians actually believe that Agriculture just happened to start over the whole Earth at once? God tells us How Humans were scattered over the whole Earth from Babel which explains WHY farming appears to have started simultaneously.

Gen 11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. (civilization)

Freodin said:

The "First Humans" of yours, with their "superior intelligence", who had all these inventions already in their "old earth" would have landed here, build cities and planted crops. But it took them 5000 years to reinvent the wheel.
They even planted grapes and made wine... but it took them several thousand years before they could produce decent pottery to keep the wine in.

So, quite obviously, "history" does not support your position.

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It's a big world with no education, transportation or science 11k years ago. I marvel at the achievements of Humans, who have gone from Caves to the Moon and back safely. ALL of this has happened in less than 1% of the time since prehistoric people diverged from Chimps. Today, Adam's descendants (Humans) number more than 7 Billion and soon to be 10 Billion. That's God's Historic Truth.

Freodin said:

"Scripture":
If you consider the narrative in Genesis 6-8 to be correct, the line of events is quite clear. Noah and his family live on earth - this earth is flooded - the waters cover everything - Noah and folk float around in their big boat on this very earth - the waters recide - the ark lands, Noah gets out and discovers that the land is again dry.

There is absolutely no mention - not even an implication - that a whole "earth" landed somewhere and sank into a sea. This is exclusively your invention.

So, no, "scripture" does not support your position either.

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God told Noah that He was going to destroy the wicked people of Adam's Earth "with the Earth". Genesis 6:13 God tells Noah that never again will He "destroy the Earth" in a flood. Genesis 9:11 God set a trap or SNARE to catch the evolutionists of the last days on the 150th day after the flood began Genesis 8:1. The flood is the SNARE for it "clean dissolved" Adam's Earth Isaiah 24:19 in Lake Van, Turkey 11k years ago. Adam's whole small Earth dissolved as the solid bottom of his firmament sank into the Lake, releasing the Ark into our Earth which was NOT destroyed in the flood. Scripture agrees with my view in every way as the above links show. Amen?

You cannot even keep your fan-fiction coherent, and you have quite obviously no idea what the "science" and "history" that you keep claiming as support really say.

Thanks for the amusement.

For the "others" here... especially the Christians who chose to wade through this nonsense... if you ever wonder why atheists don't follow your religion... look no further.

Freodin said:

You cannot even keep your fan-fiction coherent, and you have quite obviously no idea what the "science" and "history" that you keep claiming as support really say.

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Weak and too broad a critique with no specific examples. Try to do better.

Freodin said:

Thanks for the amusement.

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God told us more than 2k years ago that you would consider His Truth to be "foolishness". 1Co 2:14 Thanks for confirming His Truth.

Freodin said:

For the "others" here... especially the Christians who chose to wade through this nonsense... if you ever wonder why atheists don't follow your religion... look no further.

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You're the one who asked all the questions. I'm happy to discuss one issue at a time so you won't have to wade through my replies. So give yourself a swift kick in the backside for whining about something you caused. All i see are your questions so that you could complain about my replies. It won't happen again. Amen?

Lol. Some of the worst logic arguments I have ever read in this thread.

46AND2 said:

Lol. Some of the worst logic arguments I have ever read in this thread.

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Why don't you enlighten us with your great knowledge? Tell us how ancient men (who some THINK wrote the Bible) knew of the time period (millions and millions of years) between the big bang Genesis 2:4 and when the first stars lit up? Genesis 1:16 Tell us logically how that happened.

Aman777 said:

Why don't you enlighten us with your great knowledge? Tell us how ancient men (who some THINK wrote the Bible) knew of the time period (millions and millions of years) between the big bang Genesis 2:4 and when the first stars lit up? Genesis 1:16 Tell us logically how that happened.

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That's quite easy to explain: they didn't.

And because they didn't, they didn't write anything about it.

Instead they wrote about days, made by periods of daylight and nighttime, and placed it all within a single week, some few thousand years ago.
If they really knew about "millions and millions of years", they might have said so.

Isn't it interesting that none of the Christian authors of antiquity or the middle ages, or the early modern times have said anything about "millions and millions of years" (in fact, billions of years). Only after scientists made their statements about the age of the universe, Christians knowitalls came and claimed that, yes, this age of the earth was correct now and the Bible had always said it.

Freodin said:

That's quite easy to explain: they didn't.

And because they didn't, they didn't write anything about it.

Instead they wrote about days, made by periods of daylight and nighttime, and placed it all within a single week, some few thousand years ago.
If they really knew about "millions and millions of years", they might have said so.

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God didn't write Genesis for ancient people but for the people of the last days before Jesus comes. This assured that ONLY by faith could one be saved. The only exception are the people of the last days who have the "increased knowledge" of today's world. Daniel 12:4

Freodin said:

Isn't it interesting that none of the Christian authors of antiquity or the middle ages, or the early modern times have said anything about "millions and millions of years" (in fact, billions of years). Only after scientists made their statements about the age of the universe, Christians knowitalls came and claimed that, yes, this age of the earth was correct now and the Bible had always said it.

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God is currently pouring out His Truth through the discoveries of Science. He told us thousands of years ago:

Act 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of My Spirit upon all flesh:

This includes ALL unbelievers in God's Truth in Genesis. When Science announces the discoveries and they AGREE with Genesis, it's empirical, testable, evidence of the Literal Physical God. His name is Jesus Christ and He is the Creator or all. John 1:3

Aman777 said:

Why don't you enlighten us with your great knowledge? Tell us how ancient men (who some THINK wrote the Bible) knew of the time period (millions and millions of years) between the big bang Genesis 2:4 and when the first stars lit up? Genesis 1:16 Tell us logically how that happened.

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They didn't. You are forced to read ideas into the text which aren't there when confronted with a reality of which ancient man had no concept.

Aman777 said: ↑
Why don't you enlighten us with your great knowledge? Tell us how ancient men (who some THINK wrote the Bible) knew of the time period (millions and millions of years) between the big bang Genesis 2:4 and when the first stars lit up? Genesis 1:16 Tell us logically how that happened.

46AND2 said:

They didn't. You are forced to read ideas into the text which aren't there when confronted with a reality of which ancient man had no concept.

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It's God's plan that ONLY by faith can one be saved and made immortal...except for the people of the last days who have the "increased knowledge" Daniel 12:4 which is currently being discovered by Science, and which NO ancient man, who lived 3k years ago, could have possibly known.

Genesis 1:8 shows that the first Heaven/firmament was made the 2nd Day.
Genesis 2:4 shows that other HeavenS (plural) were made the 3rd Day, the SAME Day Adam's Earth was made according to Genesis 1:9-10 AND by Lord God/Jesus.

1 Heaven was made on Day 2 by God the Trinity.
More HeavenS were made on Day 3 by Lord God/Jesus. The present 2nd Heaven and the 3rd Heaven were made on different Days according to God the Holy Spirit.

Perhaps you didn't notice. Now, that you know, can you tell us WHY? I doubt it, but I do expect that you will continue to try to explain that which only Christians of the last days can possibly understand. My post, which shows that the big bang of our firmament/universe was on the 3rd Day Genesis 2:4 and the first Stars didn't light up until the 4th Day Genesis 1:16 is true to recent discoveries of Science, which show that it was some 180 MILLION years, in man's time, from the time the big bang happened until the first Stars lit up according to Science.

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/.../first-stars-universe-big-bang-edges-space-scie...Feb 28, 2018 - Now, scientists peering back into deep time suggest that the earliest stars didn't turn on until about 180 million years after the big bang,

It's empirical, testable, evidence of the literal God. God Truth is the Truth in every way.

Freodin said:

You cannot even keep your fan-fiction coherent, and you have quite obviously no idea what the "science" and "history" that you keep claiming as support really say.

Thanks for the amusement.

For the "others" here... especially the Christians who chose to wade through this nonsense... if you ever wonder why atheists don't follow your religion... look no further.

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Lol, it’s no good trying to reason with him, that ship’s sailed!

Aman777 said:

Aman777 said: ↑
Why don't you enlighten us with your great knowledge? Tell us how ancient men (who some THINK wrote the Bible) knew of the time period (millions and millions of years) between the big bang Genesis 2:4 and when the first stars lit up? Genesis 1:16 Tell us logically how that happened.



It's God's plan that ONLY by faith can one be saved and made immortal...except for the people of the last days who have the "increased knowledge" Daniel 12:4 which is currently being discovered by Science, and which NO ancient man, who lived 3k years ago, could have possibly known.

Genesis 1:8 shows that the first Heaven/firmament was made the 2nd Day.
Genesis 2:4 shows that other HeavenS (plural) were made the 3rd Day, the SAME Day Adam's Earth was made according to Genesis 1:9-10 AND by Lord God/Jesus.

1 Heaven was made on Day 2 by God the Trinity.
More HeavenS were made on Day 3 by Lord God/Jesus. The present 2nd Heaven and the 3rd Heaven were made on different Days according to God the Holy Spirit.

Perhaps you didn't notice. Now, that you know, can you tell us WHY? I doubt it, but I do expect that you will continue to try to explain that which only Christians of the last days can possibly understand. My post, which shows that the big bang of our firmament/universe was on the 3rd Day Genesis 2:4 and the first Stars didn't light up until the 4th Day Genesis 1:16 is true to recent discoveries of Science, which show that it was some 180 MILLION years, in man's time, from the time the big bang happened until the first Stars lit up according to Science.

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/.../first-stars-universe-big-bang-edges-space-scie...Feb 28, 2018 - Now, scientists peering back into deep time suggest that the earliest stars didn't turn on until about 180 million years after the big bang,

It's empirical, testable, evidence of the literal God. God Truth is the Truth in every way.

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Too funny. In your attempt to show that Genesis is compatible with science by stating that the stars did not light up right away, you also:

1. Say that the Earth is older than the Sun.
2. The Sun is the same age as the Moon
3. The Sun is the same age as the stars
4. The Moon is the same age as the stars

All of which are wrong, and incompatible with science.

46AND2 said:

Too funny. In your attempt to show that Genesis is compatible with science by stating that the stars did not light up right away, you also:

1. Say that the Earth is older than the Sun.

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False. I show that that Adam's Earth was made BEFORE the big bang of our Cosmos. I show this with recent discoveries of Science, showing that it was late on the 3rd Day before the beginning of our universe, since it was only 180 million years after the big bang when the first Stars lit up.
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/.../first-stars-universe-big-bang-edges-space-scie...Feb 28, 2018 - Now, scientists peering back into deep time suggest that the earliest stars didn't turn on until about 180 million years after the big bang,

In God's time, a Day/Age is some 4.5 Billion years in length, in man's time. This means that it was LATE on the 3rd Day Genesis 2:4 when the big bang happened since it was ONLY 180 million years until the Stars began to light up on the 4th Day. Genesis 1:16 Tell us IF you can, HOW any ancient man could have gotten that one correct?

46AND2 said:

2. The Sun is the same age as the Moon

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Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: He made the stars also.

The verse says nothing about when or the order in which they were created. You are "adding to" what is actually written. Rev 22:18

46AND2 said:

3. The Sun is the same age as the stars

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False, since the ages are not given. Our present Sun did not appear until some 9 Billion years after the big bang which was 13.8 billion years ago, in man's time since our Solar system did not appear until some 5-6 Billion years ago, in man's time.

46AND2 said:

4. The Moon is the same age as the stars

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False and "adding to" what is actually written is not allowed.

46AND2 said:

All of which are wrong, and incompatible with science.

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Where did you show that? You didn't. Want to try again? You will find that understanding Genesis with the agreement of Scripture, Science and History is NOT the same as the thinking of ancient men who lived 3k years ago. You are trying to measure the "increased knowledge" of the present time against the superstitious theology of ancient mankind. Talk about stacking the deck.

Aman777 said:

False. I show that that Adam's Earth was made BEFORE the big bang of our Cosmos. I show this with recent discoveries of Science, showing that it was late on the 3rd Day before the beginning of our universe, since it was only 180 million years after the big bang when the first Stars lit up.
https://news.nationalgeographic.com/.../first-stars-universe-big-bang-edges-space-scie...Feb 28, 2018 - Now, scientists peering back into deep time suggest that the earliest stars didn't turn on until about 180 million years after the big bang,

In God's time, a Day/Age is some 4.5 Billion years in length, in man's time. This means that it was LATE on the 3rd Day Genesis 2:4 when the big bang happened since it was ONLY 180 million years until the Stars began to light up on the 4th Day. Genesis 1:16 Tell us IF you can, HOW any ancient man could have gotten that one correct?



Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: He made the stars also.

The verse says nothing about when or the order in which they were created. You are "adding to" what is actually written. Rev 22:18



False, since the ages are not given. Our present Sun did not appear until some 9 Billion years after the big bang which was 13.8 billion years ago, in man's time since our Solar system did not appear until some 5-6 Billion years ago, in man's time.



False and "adding to" what is actually written is not allowed.



Where did you show that? You didn't. Want to try again? You will find that understanding Genesis with the agreement of Scripture, Science and History is NOT the same as the thinking of ancient men who lived 3k years ago. You are trying to measure the "increased knowledge" of the present time against the superstitious theology of ancient mankind. Talk about stacking the deck.

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The earth was not created before the big bang. Nor before the sun. Nor before the stars.

Concerning the sun, moon, and stars relative ages, you have to invent a reading into genesis 1:16 that is contrary to the way it is written. If god made the stars first, why did he tack it on at the end of the verse about the sun and moon? If god did not create the sun and moon simultaneously, why is it clearly written like he did?

If you didn't know through science the actual order of stars, sun, and moon, and only had the bible to go by, what order would you place them in?

Aman777 said:

The verse says nothing about when or the order in which they were created. You are "adding to" what is actually written. Rev 22:18

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Stop it already, Aman, you are cracking me up. This is hillarious!

I have to admit that you are the best Poe I have seen in a long time. I admire your dedication.

Freodin said:

Stop it already, Aman, you are cracking me up. This is hillarious!

I have to admit that you are the best Poe I have seen in a long time. I admire your dedication.

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Thanks. I have a lot of evolutionist friends who know better than to try to refute the agreement of Scripture with science and history. You're learning. God bless you

46AND2 said:

The earth was not created before the big bang. Nor before the sun. Nor before the stars.

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Adam's entire firmament in which was his Earth, was made the 2nd Day. Gen 1:8
The present firmament in which is the present Earth, was made the 3rd Day. Gen 2:4 IOW, Adam's Heaven was made some 9 billion years, in man's time BEFORE the big bang of our Cosmos.

Think about it. Scripture tells us that the world (Kosmos) that THEN WAS, perished which in Greek means destroyed totally. 2 Peter 3:6 In context, it's the Scoffers of the last days who will NOT believe that..BUT..none of them can explain HOW the 3rd rock from the Sun was "clean dissolved" in a flood, since the present Earth is covered with water but doesn't dissolve. Isaiah 24:19

46AND2 said:

Concerning the sun, moon, and stars relative ages, you have to invent a reading into genesis 1:16 that is contrary to the way it is written. If god made the stars first, why did he tack it on at the end of the verse about the sun and moon? If god did not create the sun and moon simultaneously, why is it clearly written like he did?

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It's a part of the Snare which God set to catch the Scoffers of the last days who THINK they know more than God. The Snare is the flood which godless people reject. In the end, the Scoffers are singled out for a more terrible punishment.

46AND2 said:

If you didn't know through science the actual order of stars, sun, and moon, and only had the bible to go by, what order would you place them in?

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Jesus caused the big bang which scattered matter throughout our Universe or as Billy Graham used to say, "I would have loved to have been there when Jesus scattered the Stars throughout the Universe". It all happened at the SAME time at the bb, according to Science but you don't agree. Write your congressman.