ThatRobGuy said in post #48:
How old was Mary when she was married to Joseph?
The Bible doesn't say.
So Mary can't be employed against Biblical Christianity in any charge of pedophilia, just as no other Bible verse can.
ThatRobGuy said in post #48:
...and when she gave birth?
Note that Mary conceived Jesus Christ solely by God's Holy Spirit, before she had had any sexual relations with Joseph (Matthew 1:18), or with any other man for that matter (Luke 1:34-35). This is why Jesus is the only begotten (only born) Son of God (John 3:16, Luke 1:34-35), meaning that He is the only person ever born without any human father.
But Jesus Christ is still also the Son of David (Matthew 21:9), in the sense of His being that physical descendant of David (Romans 1:3) who is the foretold Messiah/Christ (John 7:42). So Mary must have been descended from David, or else Jesus would have had no physical descent from David. Because the genealogies in Matthew and Luke are different, one passing through David's son Solomon (Matthew 1:6) and the other through David's son Nathan (Luke 3:31), the latter genealogy can be Mary's. In this case, Joseph, the husband of Mary can be the son of Heli (Luke 3:23) in the sense of his being his son-in-law, like how, for example, David was the son of Saul (1 Samuel 24:11,16) in the sense of his being his son-in-law (1 Samuel 18:23,27c).
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ThatRobGuy said in post #49:
Any time that baker sells any sugary pastry to a person who's unhealthily overweight, they're contributing to a non-biblical lifestyle.
What Bible verse are you thinking of?
ThatRobGuy said in post #49:
Why is it centered around this one particular sin?
Do you mean the denial of service for
homosexual weddings?
If so, note that denial of service would not be limited to that. For the Bible requires that Christians not support
any sinful activities (Ephesians 5:11), not just homosexuality (Romans 1:26-27), but also adultery (Galatians 5:19-21) or pedophilia (Mark 9:42), for example.
But it is homosexuals who are for some reason the only ones now trying to "push the envelope" in the courts in order to persecute Biblical Christian business owners.
That is, it is homosexuals who are now
bullying Biblical Christians by trying to force them to deny their religion.
When the Nazis went after the Jews, they made sure to attack Jewish businesses.
What we are witnessing today is the Kristallnacht stage of the homosexual persecution of Biblical Christians.
Ultimately, there will be a Biblical Christian Holocaust, perpetrated by the whole world (Matthew 24:9-13).
(There may be some people whose mouths water at the very thought of this.)
ThatRobGuy said in post #49:
. . . I haven't heard one single story where a Christian store owner has refused to sell beer/wine on grounds of "not wanting to encourage anti-biblical behavior"
What Bible verse are you thinking of?
For note that alcohol consumption is Biblically valid (John 2:3-11), just not to "excess" (1 Peter 4:3).
ThatRobGuy said in post #49:
This scenario, like many others, seems to highlight this stance that I see among many Christians where they want anything involving LGBT to be considered like a "super sin: worse than all other sins".
Not at all, for there are many different sins which will send people down into hell when they die (e.g. Galatians 5:19-21).
But it is only the homosexuals today who are now for some reason rampantly trying to force others to accept their sin.
For example, they sometimes claim that homosexuality can't even be a sin, because it has been proven to be genetic. But note that it has never been proven to be genetic.
Also, note that even if homosexuality could be proven to be genetic, so could alcoholism, criminal violence, and schizophrenia. Human genes in their current, fallen, corrupted state have nothing to do with proving what is moral, or what is good mental health.
Also, Christian Gay Conversion Therapy can help some gay Christians to become straight, or at least to no longer practice homosexuality. For Jesus Christ has the power to deliver Christians from slavery to any sin (John 8:34-36). And He can do this even apart from any human therapy.
Also, it is curious that homosexuals sometimes claim that what they do sexually is okay because it is genetic, while transgender people (who are also homosexual) claim that genetics is completely irrelevant, and even totally-counter, to their real identity. So which claim is right?
But while homosexual acts are sinful (Romans 1:26-27), we too easily forget that homosexual acts (Genesis 19:4-5) were not the only sin of Sodom. For: "Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy" (Ezekiel 16:49). How many of us Christians who love to rail against homosexuality are nonetheless "just like Sodom" with regard to our pride, our fullness of bread, our abundance of idleness, and our refusal to strengthen the hand of the poor and needy? How many of us love to place ourselves above homosexuals, forgetting that even if we were completely free from all sin ourselves, we would still be judged by God for our self-righteousness (Luke 18:9-14)?
But, at the same time, the truth must never be discounted that homosexual acts, if they are not repented of, will, like any other unrepentant sin, keep people from ultimate salvation (1 Corinthians 6:9-10).
The list of sins which will ultimately keep even Christians out of the Kingdom of God (if they do not repent from them) is quite long (Galatians 5:19-21), and some of these sins are common in the Church today. So why is there such a focus by some Christians on homosexuality alone? Why does not the Church also focus on, for example, its own very-widespread practice of divorce and second-marriage adultery (Mark 10:11-12)?
For a husband is not to divorce his wife (1 Corinthians 7:11b), and a wife is not to divorce her husband (1 Corinthians 7:10). And if a wife does divorce her husband, she must remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband (1 Corinthians 7:11). Regarding becoming reconciled, a Christian must always completely forgive everyone who has wronged him or her in any way (Mark 11:25), no matter how great the wrong, and no matter how many times a wrong has been committed (Matthew 18:21-35). For if a Christian refuses to forgive anyone for anything, God will refuse to forgive that Christian for his or her own sins (Mark 11:26).
If a husband divorces a valid wife and marries another woman, he is committing adultery (Mark 10:11). And if a wife divorces a valid husband and marries another man, she is committing adultery (Mark 10:12). The exception for fornication (as distinguished from adultery) in Matthew 19:9 permits a husband to divorce a valid wife for having had pre-marital sex, and to marry another woman without his committing adultery. But this applies only to cases where a husband does not discover until after he is married that his newlywed wife is not a virgin (cf. Deuteronomy 22:14, Matthew 1:19). There is no such pre-marital-sex exception granted to a wife. Also, there is no pre-marital-sex exception granted to a man who marries a divorced woman. If a man marries a woman divorced from a valid husband for any reason, he is committing adultery (Luke 16:18b).
1 Corinthians 7:15 means that a Christian spouse is not under the bondage of having to keep together a valid marriage to a non-Christian when the non-Christian is determined to get a divorce. But 1 Corinthians 7:15 does not mean that a Christian wife, after being divorced by a non-Christian, yet valid, husband, can then marry someone else. For if a man marries a woman divorced from a valid husband, he is committing adultery (Luke 16:18b). But the Bible does not forbid a man divorced from a valid wife to marry a second, single woman who is not divorced from a valid husband, so long as it was his first wife (whether a non-Christian or Christian) who divorced him. But then in God's eyes he will be married to two women at the same time (so long as both remain alive), which, while the Bible does not require is a sin in itself, because it is not the best situation, it disqualifies him from taking any leadership positions in the Church (1 Timothy 3:2,12).
The now-abolished letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6) permitted a divorced woman to marry someone else (Deuteronomy 24:2). But if her second marriage ended, the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law forbade her to remarry her first husband (Deuteronomy 24:4). The New Covenant rules turn this on its head. For now a woman divorced from a valid husband cannot marry anyone else (Mark 10:12, Luke 16:18b), but she can remarry her valid husband (1 Corinthians 7:11). It was because the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law permitted a divorced woman to marry someone else, that Jesus Christ, while the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law was still in effect, could acknowledge the woman of Samaria's five marriages (John 4:18, assuming that all five did not end in the death of her husband: cf. Luke 20:29-31). The New Covenant rules forbidding a woman divorced from a valid husband to marry anyone else did not come into legal effect until Jesus' death on the Cross brought the New Covenant into legal effect (Hebrews 9:16-17, Matthew 26:28), and abolished the letter of the Old Covenant Mosaic law (Ephesians 2:15-16, Colossians 2:14-17, Romans 7:6).
God never said that marriage would be easy. And He has set such strict, New Covenant rules regarding divorce and second marriages (Matthew 19:9, Mark 10:12) that His apostles said that it is better not to get married at all (Matthew 19:10). He answered by saying that whoever can accept not getting married, and remaining celibate, should accept it (Matthew 19:11-12). The apostle Paul said the same thing, that unmarried celibacy is the best thing for a Christian if he or she can handle it (1 Corinthians 7:1,7-8,32-35). But if someone who has not been married cannot contain himself or herself sexually, then he or she should get married to avoid fornication (1 Corinthians 7:2,9).
The strict, New Covenant rules regarding divorce and second marriages cut both ways, in that if Christians find themselves in a miserable marriage which is an adulterous affair in God's eyes (Mark 10:11-12), then they can escape their misery and their unrepentant sin at the same time by divorcing their invalid spouse. But if they find themselves in a very pleasant marriage which is an adulterous affair in God's eyes, then they have to be willing to give it up to escape their unrepentant sin, and thereby avoid ultimately losing their salvation due to unrepentant sin (Hebrews 10:26-29, Galatians 5:19-21, Luke 12:45-46).
The only unforgivable sin is blaspheming God's Holy Spirit (Mark 3:28-29), such as ascribing a work of the Holy Spirit to Satan (Mark 3:22-30). Any other sin can be forgiven if it is repented from and confessed to God (1 John 1:9). Just as if Christians find themselves living in the sin of an adulterous affair, they cannot continue in that sin, so if they find themselves living in the sin of second-marriage adultery (Mark 10:12, Matthew 19:9), they cannot continue in that sin (or any other sin) and expect God's grace to forgive them (Hebrews 10:26-29, Galatians 5:19-21; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10). Instead, they must break off with the second, invalid spouse, even if they have had children with the second spouse, just as married people must break off an adulterous affair even if they have had children as a result of that affair.
After breaking off an adulterous second marriage, a wife must remain unmarried or be reconciled to her first, valid husband (1 Corinthians 7:11), if she has one. And if she does have one, then she cannot marry someone else, even if, for example, that would help her and her children to escape poverty. For just as escaping poverty would not justify the wife continuing in the sin of an adulterous affair with a man who financially supports her and her children (or would not justify the sin of her becoming and remaining a well-paid prostitute), so escaping poverty would not justify the sin of her entering into another case of second-marriage adultery (Mark 10:12) with a man who financially supports her and her children.
Romans 3:31 means that Christians establish the Old Covenant Mosaic law not in its letter, but in its spirit (Romans 7:6), by loving others (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, Matthew 7:12). Part of loving others is warning them if they are living in sin (Revelation 3:19; 2 Thessalonians 3:15, Hebrews 3:13, James 5:19-20). The worst thing that a Christian can do is to coddle people who are living in sin, instead of sharing with them the hard (yet saving) truths of God's Word the Holy Bible (2 Timothy 4:2-4, cf. Jeremiah 23:14,22,29). Telling the truth to people can sometimes hurt them, but that is better than deceiving them with something which makes them feel good (Proverbs 27:6, Proverbs 28:23). The reason that second-marriage adultery (or any other sin) is so common in the Church today is because so much of the Church has stopped teaching and believing the hard truths of God's Word the Holy Bible (2 Timothy 4:2-4, cf. Jeremiah 23:14,22,29).
