Pope Francis orders new, 'thorough study' of Archbishop McCarrick

Any thorough study will get to the bottom of why Pope Francis reappointed him to official duty in the first place, after Pope Benedict had pastured him.

Michie said:

In a statement, the Vatican says it is concious that the new investigation may reveal choices not "consonant with a contemporary approach to such issues."

Pope Francis Orders New, ‘Thorough Study’ of Archbishop McCarrick

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"consonant with a contemporary approach to such issues."

turn the investigation over to the police like should be done

Michie said:

In a statement, the Vatican says it is concious that the new investigation may reveal choices not "consonant with a contemporary approach to such issues."

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That's code for something. What it codes for is an enigma known only to highly specialized Vatican insiders. But I bet cardinals Ferrell and Cupich know.

eleos1954 said:

turn the investigation over to the police like should be done

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Exactly.

Michie said:

Vatican Announces Review of Archbishop McCarrick Files, Yet No Apostolic Visitation

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What exactly were the lobbying efforts of ex-cardinal McCarrick in the election of pope Francis. That's something thay needs to be known. He was not an elector as he was too old in 2013, but he has long been a kingmaker.

Michie said:

In a statement, the Vatican says it is concious that the new investigation may reveal choices not "consonant with a contemporary approach to such issues."

Pope Francis Orders New, ‘Thorough Study’ of Archbishop McCarrick

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I applaud Francis here, I think this move took great courage. It probably won't be perfect, but it is a big step in the right direction.

zippy2006 said:

I applaud Francis here, I think this move took great courage. It probably won't be perfect, but it is a big step in the right direction.

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I THINK I agree but I'm going to have to wait to see if the investigation does anything or not. Hard hitting expose of McCarrick or pro forma.

I am really sorry to join a forum and be new and then go and post but you all talk about topics close to my present concerns.

I have two issues with the present crisis of immorality being revealed within the clergy. As a retired cop myself I can see where revelations as old as most of the recent allegations are useless from a legal standpoint of convicting anyone of anything. Statutes of limitations apply in the majority of cases. Those which have not run out need to be turned over for prosecution to the fullest extent of the law for those who are found guilty.

The other issue for me is that there are no statutes of limitations within the Church and there does need to be internal investigations without agendas done and policy needs to change in this area drastically, and reading this gives me hope that the Pope is seeing that and doing what he needs to be doing to clean house and find out how it was allowed to run that way for as long as it did. It gives me hope that even those who may escape the laws of the land will not escape the Church and finding themselves removed in disgrace if they are guilty.

I am gonna focus on the hope and see what happens and results from this. For a while I was pretty despondent to fear they might not do anything. I will take hope for now JMO

chevyontheriver said:

I THINK I agree but I'm going to have to wait to see if the investigation does anything or not. Hard hitting expose of McCarrick or pro forma.

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Sure. The reason I am hopeful is because of the quote in the OP. If the investigation is unlikely to turn up anything then a statement like that is a PR blunder.

It also strengthens my thesis about Pope Francis' silence. Presumably he was trying to address the problem and believes that Vigano's testimony was unhelpful and unfair, even if largely true. That said, I am not convinced that Francis was doing a good job to address the problem nor am I convinced that Vigano's testimony actually was unfair, but it fits the data from Francis' point of view (and Benedict XVI's resignation). The heart of the matter is this: the roots of the problem seem to run deep and are probably very hard to address.

eleos1954 said:

turn the investigation over to the police like should be done

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The efficacy of local police investigations comes from two factors: expertise and jurisdiction. What few people seem to understand is that jurisdiction does not apply here, which is why the whole thing is more complicated. It is for this reason that any consultative body with investigative expertise would be sufficient (and equivalent to "the police").

Michie said:

Because it deserves repeating. The Church does not police itself with justice in mind when comes to protecting their company men.

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Yes, difficult for the Catholic church being a combination of both church and state. Very difficult. However, if true by way of evidence, it is criminal in both the eyes of God and men. Seems to me evidence should be impartial and not bias so perhaps the avenue would be by investigation by both working together (the church and by police authorities outside of the church. to that end.)

May the Lord protect His innocent children. Amen.

zippy2006 said:

The efficacy of local police investigations comes from two factors: expertise and jurisdiction. What few people seem to understand is that jurisdiction does not apply here, which is why the whole thing is more complicated. It is for this reason that any consultative body with investigative expertise would be sufficient (and equivalent to "the police").

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Maybe many do not understand jurisdiction and expertise. But many of us do. It is a very difficult situation for the Catholic church.

Question:

"It is for this reason that any consultative body with investigative expertise would be sufficient (and equivalent to "the police")."

Does or has the catholic church ever involve the police, or call the police for any criminal occurrence or activity? Robbery, theft assault, anything? or do they absolutely handle everything themselves?

eleos1954 said:

Maybe many do not understand jurisdiction and expertise. But many of us do.

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Do you, though? What police force has jurisdictional authority over the sovereign Vatican City State?

A police force is simply a tool to enforce legislation. When a U.S. citizen believes that a law is being broken they call the police to enforce the law. Needless to say, it just doesn't work that way for Pope Francis in this matter.

Does or has the catholic church ever involve the police, or call the police for any criminal occurrence or activity? Robbery, theft assault, anything? or do they absolutely handle everything themselves?

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I suppose it depends a great deal on what you mean by "the catholic church" and "the police." The Vatican has a police force, but their relevance to this issue is not at all apparent.

Perhaps you are just saying that Francis should disclose confidential (and possibly incriminating) information about ex-Cardinal McCarrick to U.S. law enforcement. Sure, that's fine, but the investigation that Francis is ordering is going to be a bit different from that. He could certainly do that in addition, and the findings might lead to civil action, but the idea of calling the police doesn't make much sense.

zippy2006 said:

Do you, though? What police force has jurisdictional authority over the sovereign Vatican City State?

A police force is simply a tool to enforce legislation. When a U.S. citizen believes that a law is being broken they call the police to enforce the law. Needless to say, it just doesn't work that way for Pope Francis in this matter.



I suppose it depends a great deal on what you mean by "the catholic church" and "the police." The Vatican has a police force, but their relevance to this issue is not at all apparent.

Perhaps you are just saying that Francis should disclose confidential (and possibly incriminating) information about ex-Cardinal McCarrick to U.S. law enforcement. Sure, that's fine, but the investigation that Francis is ordering is going to be a bit different from that. He could certainly do that in addition, and the findings might lead to civil action.

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He could certainly do that in addition, and the findings might lead to civil action

In addition to - would be a very good approach. Just have to wait and see what actually takes place.

God Bless.

Michie said:

In a statement, the Vatican says it is concious that the new investigation may reveal choices not "consonant with a contemporary approach to such issues."

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What needs to be discovered:

Who first abused Theodore McCarrick?
Parent, relative, neighbor, priest, bishop, stranger?
How, what extent?
How long?
How old was Theodore McCarrick while he was being abused?
Pre-teen, adolescent, young adult, seminarian, new priest?
Has that person been investigated? When did that investigation open?
Has that person been charged in a crime?
If that person is a priest, has he been removed?
If that person is a priest, did his bishop cover it up?
Has that bishop been investigated? When did the investigation open?
Has Theodore McCarrick ever been 'made whole' from the abuse done to him?

How was Theodore McCarrick chosen for seminary?
How much of his past was evaluated before allowing him to enter seminary?
What was known about prior abuse?
Was there any known problem that should have kept him out of seminary?
Who could have discovered a problem at this time?
Did he show any positive signs of faith in Christ at the time?

Was Theodore McCarrick molested while in seminary?
Was there a Lavender Mafia acting in his seminary?
Did anyone teach him in seminary that homosexual acts were immoral?
If not, how were such things not taught to seminarians?
Was Theodore McCarrick taught that homosexual acts were not immoral?
If so, how were such things taught to seminarians?
Who was in charge of the seminary Theodore McCarrick attended?
Has an investigation of the seminary been started?
Who appointed the rector of this seminary?
Has there been an investigation of the bishop who was responsible for that seminary?

Who allowed Theodore McCarrick to be ordained?
How many people had a say in accepting him for ordination?
Have all of these people been interviewed?
Have all of the notes in his seminary file been made available?
Are there indications of any issue at the time?
Who ordained Theodore McCarrick?
Has that bishop been investigated? When did the investigation open?

Who allowed Theodore McCarrick to attend the Land-O-Lakes conference?
Who guided the career of Theodore McCarrick?
Have those people been investigated? When did the investigations open?

Who appointed Theodore McCarrick to his position overseeing the New American Bible translation?
What effect did his presence have on that translation?

Who protected Theodore McCarrick?
Have those people been investigated? When did the investigations open?
Who promoted Theodore McCarrick?
Have those people been investigated? When did the investigations open?
Who in the Vatican knew? When did they know?
Have those people been investigated? When did the investigations open?

What is McCarrick's role in the career of:
Cardinal Wuerl?
Cardinal Dolan?
Cardinal Tobin?
Cardinal Ferrell?
Cardinal Cupich?
Which archbishops?
Archbishop John Nienstedt?
Nienstedt's replacement archbishop Hebda?
Which bishops?
Which people did he appoint to various commissions?
Have their investigations begun yet?
Which seminarians did he provide plum assignments for?
Have their investigations begun yet?

The above is just a beginning. And just because I named a name does not mean that person is guilty. Archbishop Hebda, for example, it just isn't clear if there is a connection or not, but it needs to come out one way or the other.

Who else has Theodore McCarrick abused?
Who were violated without their consent?
Have those people been made whole?
Who were consenting partners?
What positions do these people have?
Have they been removed yet?
Have their investigations begun yet?

What role did Theodore McCarrick have in the rise of cardinal Bergolio to the papacy?
Did he cooperate with the St. Galen Mafia?
Who did he influence to vote for cardinal Bergolio?
Did pope Francis think he owed any sort of thanks to Theodore McCarrick?

It is important to do contact tracing like the infectious disease doctors used to do with VD. When they found one case they traced all contacts, and then traced the contacts those people had, back as far as possible. Now such an approach is considered a violation of privacy, but it was effective in keeping such diseases in check until abandoned. Now such diseases are rampant. We can just resign ourselves to this staying rampant in the Catholic hierarchy or we can actively root it out until it pops up again.

Deborah St Edith said:

I am really sorry to join a forum and be new and then go and post but you all talk about topics close to my present concerns.

I have two issues with the present crisis of immorality being revealed within the clergy. As a retired cop myself I can see where revelations as old as most of the recent allegations are useless from a legal standpoint of convicting anyone of anything. Statutes of limitations apply in the majority of cases. Those which have not run out need to be turned over for prosecution to the fullest extent of the law for those who are found guilty.

The other issue for me is that there are no statutes of limitations within the Church and there does need to be internal investigations without agendas done and policy needs to change in this area drastically, and reading this gives me hope that the Pope is seeing that and doing what he needs to be doing to clean house and find out how it was allowed to run that way for as long as it did. It gives me hope that even those who may escape the laws of the land will not escape the Church and finding themselves removed in disgrace if they are guilty.

I am gonna focus on the hope and see what happens and results from this. For a while I was pretty despondent to fear they might not do anything. I will take hope for now JMO

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Hello St. Edith,
A big Welcome to OBOB and CF forums!

Please do not be bashful. Join on in. Your post is great!

As a Law Enforcement retiree, What do you think of the thought of using Catholic Church auto-anathema (The Catholic Church use of Jesus' lips to bind sinners to sin) on anyone who has not confessed their crimes of sexual abuse of children, and cover ups, to State Law enforcement agencies? Make the anathema binding, and only after the criminal perpetrators have confessed to State Prosecutors and Judges, can they be absolved of their sin (The Catholic Church use of Jesus' lips loosting sinners of their sins).

What do you, a Law Enforcement Officer, think of this concept?