Are nudist church services morally acceptable?

Are nudist religious services morally acceptable?

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All4Christ

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To assume that they believed being naked during the services was normative just because of the baptismal service is completely wrong. Look at all the rest of the writings at the time. Modest apparel in the Church was critical. They even made sure there were women to assist with the women and men with the men. Often the baptismal rites for women were done at a separate time than the men. Hippolytus speaks of the men being first, then the women, and leading them to gather with the Church after they redressed in the baptismal white garment. Women wore head coverings (not even just linen head coverings - they had to wear palliums) and were not to wear makeup or other things like that. The kiss of peace was only men to men and women to women. Men were not allowed to give the kiss of peace to women. Nudity definitely was not prescriptive or the norm for Christian services.
 
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Back in those days from long ago, it was acceptable for a 35-year-old man to marry a girl age 13 or 14. In fact, these sorts of forced marriages are still common in parts of the Middle East and Africa. But just because it was perceived as acceptable for an older man to marry a teen girl—with or without her consent—back then doesn’t mean it’s acceptable today. Likewise, religious nudism may have been perceived as acceptable back 1,700 or so years ago, but this fact doesn’t mean it should be acceptable in modern times.

Good points, I see the acceptance of nudity in Church as ultimately the warm embrace of cultural relativism, a kind which turns a blind eye to any notion of any moral absolute, which turns out to be an attribute of God, His Holiness, His perfection and purity. What I do not understand, is that there seems to be an assumption that regenerate believers attain an original righteousness of pre-fallen man and woman, even while still remaining in the corruptible fleshly body which will perish, unlike the original righteousness of pre-fallen man and woman, before the curse of sin. If believers attained the complete original righteousness of pre-fall man and woman in this life, all the words in Ephesians about spiritual warfare, of the war between the flesh and the spirit, make little sense applied to the believer.
 
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Darkhorse

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What is the typical person like who goes on nudist vacations? Is he white collar or blue collar? Is it mostly men, mostly women, or an even mix of both? Young or old? Family or no family? Liberal or conservative? I ask because I’m curious about the sort of person who views nudism as something to be embraced and celebrated.

Both white-collar and blue-collar people are represented (military, law enforcement, teachers, engineers, lawyers, railroad workers, etc.). Most people come as part of a couple, so the sexes are half-and-half. Most people are over 50 years old, but the last few years have seen a big increase in 20-30 year-olds. About 5% of people present are kids (under 18), who are present with their parents or grandparents (or both). Liberal areas have lots of liberals (like Palo Alto, CA) and conservative areas have mostly conservatives (like Virginia).

I'm glad to answer any questions about the lifestyle from anyone, but we might want to use PMs
 
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Darkhorse

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Where do they put the church bulletin?

They don't print one.

They do use Bibles and hymnals. Nudists are clean people; they shower several times a day.
 
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dreadnought

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Here is a YouTube video about a church where the congregants and preacher participate in religious services while being butt naked:


Personally, I think it is morally unacceptable to have church services while in the nude. 1 Corinthians 6:19 says that our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit. Therefore, we should not strip down naked while in the house of the Lord--or anywhere in public. That's weird!
It is morally unacceptable.
 
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Darkhorse

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I sure would not take my teenage boy there. I don't care what anybody says, as a teenage boy I would have been lusting up a storm. You can talk all you want about culture, the guys are just wired that way.

I know - I was one once.

Nudism removes the mysterious allure of the opposite sex and neutralizes the inappropriate contentographic messages that kids get from society. My two boys (now in their 20s) are still virgins and have nothing to do with inappropriate content.

But, you don't care what I say - and I have no problem with that.
 
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mmksparbud

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What was the first thing that Adam and Eve did after they fell? What was the first thing that God did after Adam and Eve fell?

Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
 
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What was the first thing that Adam and Eve did after they fell? What was the first thing that God did after Adam and Eve fell?

Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
Exactly.
I was going to make the exact same post ,but figured I shouldn't need to until I started reading some of the posts made after my first response.
And that individual in the OP video is anything but a pastor.
Just ridiculous as I stated before.
On soooooooo many levels .
Definitely not of God.
That is the naked truth.
 
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That’s also one of the reasons they had women deaconesses to help with baptisms of women...and afterwards they put on the baptismal garment...
My understanding is that baptismal garments didn’t come until much later. Read the description I posted—they were all baptized at the same time, children first, then men, then women—all at the same place.
 
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What we see in this thread are posters who don’t know history trying to impose modern views on what is said in scripture. Nudity is not condemned in scripture. Forced nudity is described as being shameful, but nudity in general is not. Today nudity and sex are, sadly, linked. That was not the case in the early church. Darkhourse has provided descriptions of nudism; other posters have largely ignored them.
 
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My family and I have attended this nudist church in Virginia for several years when on vacation, and will continue to do so.

The White Tail Resort near Ivor, Virginia has a non-denominational Bible study and Christian worship service almost every Sunday. Everyone there is nude, and sits on their towels.

Other than the lack of clothes, it's very traditional, with emphasis on preaching and prayer, especially for resort residents and their needs. There's nothing lewd or inappropriate.

About 2/3 of the resort residents are Christian, and are very family oriented.

There's nothing wrong about worshipping God while wearing His designer outfit. :)

http://whitetailresort.org/

Exodus 20

26Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.
 
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Exodus 20

26Neither shalt thou go up by steps unto mine altar, that thy nakedness be not discovered thereon.
So we are governed by requirements imposed on Old Testament priests?
 
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So we are governed by requirements imposed on Old Testament priests?

It certainly doesn't imply in any way shape or form that God would be fine with a naked congregation.
 
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They don't print one.

They do use Bibles and hymnals. Nudists are clean people; they shower several times a day.
How do you know how many times they or anyone showers?
Seriously?
And that doesn't even matter regardless.
 
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All4Christ

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My understanding is that baptismal garments didn’t come until much later. Read the description I posted—they were all baptized at the same time.
Bring up the entire apostolic tradition where it discusses baptism. It gives a lot of context.

Here is the portion about the catechumenate:

17 Catechumens will hear the word for three years. 2Yet if someone is earnesta and
perseveres well in the matter, it is not the time that is judged, but the conduct.

a Or eager

18 When the teacher finishes his instruction, the cfatechumens will pray by themselves,
separate from the faithful. 2The women will also pray in another place in the church, by
themselves, whether faithful women or catechumen women. 3After the catechumens have
finished praying, they do not give the kiss of peace, for their kiss is not yet pure. 4But the
faithful shall greet one another with a kiss, men with men, and women with women. Men
must not greet women with a kiss.

5All the women should cover their heads with a pallium, and not simply with a piece of
linen, which is not a proper veil.

19 After the prayer, the teacher shall lay hands upon the catechumens, pray, and
dismiss them. Whether such is one of the laypeople or of the clergy, let him do so.

2If any catechumens are apprehended because of the Name of the Lord, let them not be
double-hearted because of martyrdom. If they may suffer violence and be executed with
their sins not removed, they will be justified, for they have received baptism in their own
blood.

20 When they are chosen who are to receive baptism, let their lives be examined,
whether they have lived honorably while catechumens, whether they honored the widows,
whether they visited the sick, and whether they have done every good work.. 2If those who
bring them forward bear witness for them that they have done so, then let them hear the Gospel.

3From the time at which they are set apart, place hands upon them daily so that they are
exorcised. When the day approaches on which they are to be baptized, let the bishop
exorcise each one of them, so that he will be certain whether each has been purified.
4If there are any who are not purified, they shall be set apart. They have not heard the
Word in faith, for the foreign spirit remained with each of them.

5Let those who are to be baptized be instructed that they bathe and wash on the fifth day
of the week. 6If a woman is in the manner of women, let her be set aparta and receive
baptism another day.

7Those who are to receive baptism shall fast on the Preparation of the Sabbathb. On the
Sabbathc, those who are to receive baptism shall all gather together in one place chosen
according to the will of the bishop. They shall be commanded to pray and kneeld. 8Then,
laying his hand on them, he will exorcise every foreign spirit, so that they flee from them and
never return to them. When he has finished exorcising them, he shall breathe on their faces
and seale their foreheads, ears and noses. Then he shall raise them up.

9They shall all keep vigil all night, reading and instructing them.

10Those who are to be baptized are not to bring any vessel, only that which each brings
for the eucharist. It is indeed proper that each bring the oblation in the same hour.

And the baptism:

21 At the hour in which the [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] crows, they shall first pray over the water. 2When
they come to the water, the water shall be pure and flowing, that is, the water of a spring
or a flowing body of water. 3Then they shall take off all their clothes. 4The children shall be
baptized first. All of the children who can answer for themselves, let them answer. If there
are any children who cannot answer for themselves, let their parents answer for them, or
someone else from their family. 5After this, the men will be baptized. Finally, the women,
after they have unbound their hair, and removed their jewelry. No one shall take any
foreign object with themselves down into the water.

6At the time determined for baptism, the bishop shall give thanks over some oil, which he
puts in a vessel. It is called the Oil of Thanksgiving. 7He shall take some more oil and
exorcise it. It is called the Oil of Exorcism. 8A deacon shall hold the Oil of Exorcism and
stand on the left. Another deacon shall hold the Oil of Thanksgiving and stand on the right.

9When the elder takes hold of each of them who are to receive baptism, he shall tell each
of them to renounce, saying, "I renounce you Satan, all your servicea, and all your works."
10After he has said this, he shall anoint each with the Oil of Exorcism, saying, "Let every
evil spirit depart from you." 11Then, after these things, the bishop passes each of them on
nude to the elder who stands at the water. They shall stand in the water naked. A deacon,
likewise, will go down with them into the water. 12When each of them to be baptized has
gone down into the water, the one baptizing shall lay hands on each of them, asking, "Do
you believe in God the Father Almighty?" 13And the one being baptized shall answer, "I
believe." 14He shall then baptize each of them once, laying his hand upon each of their
heads. 15Then he shall ask, "Do you believe in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who was
born of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, who was crucified under Pontius Pilate, and
died, and rose on the third day living from the dead, and ascended into heaven, and sat
down at the right hand of the Father, the one coming to judge the living and the dead?"
16When each has answered, "I believe," he shall baptize a second time. 17Then he shall
ask, "Do you believe in the Holy Spirit and the Holy Church and the resurrection of the
flesh?" 18Then each being baptized shall answer, "I believe." And thus let him baptize the
third time.

19Afterward, when they have come up out of the water, they shall be anointed by the
elder with the Oil of Thanksgiving, saying, "I anoint you with holy oil in the name of Jesus
Christ." 20Then, drying themselves, they shall dress and afterwards gather in the church.

21The bishop will then lay his hand upon them, invoking, saying,
"Lord God, you who have made these worthy
of the removal of sins through the bath of regeneration,
make them worthy to be filled with your Holy Spirit,
grant to them your grace,
that they might serve you according to your will,
for to you is the glory,
Father and Son
with the Holy Spirit,
in the Holy Church,
now and throughout the ages of the ages.
Amen.

22After this he pours the oil into his hand, and laying his hand on each of their heads, says,
"I anoint you with holy oil
in God the Father Almighty,
and Christ Jesus,
and the Holy Spirit."

23Then, after sealingb each of them on the forehead, he shall give them the kiss of peace
and say,
"The Lord be with you."
And the one who has been baptized shall say,
"And with your spirit."
24So shall he do to each one.

25From then on they will pray together will all the people. Prior to this they may not pray
with the faithful until they have completed all. 26After they pray, let them give the kiss
of peace.

You are right that this doesn’t say baptismal garment, but it does say that the children went first, then the men, then the women, then they redressed before gathering with the congregation.

A few other interesting pieces of context regarding men and women:

18 When the teacher finishes his instruction, the catechumens will pray by themselves, separate from the faithful. 2The women will also pray in another place in the church, by themselves, whether faithful women or catechumen women. 3After the catechumens have finished praying, theydo not give the kiss of peace, for their kiss is not yet pure. 4But the faithful shall greet one another with a kiss, men with men, and women with women. Men must not greet women with a kiss.

5All the women should cover their heads with a pallium, and not simply with a piece of linen, which is not a proper veil.

They redressed before joining the congregation, they were baptized in order of children, men and the women, and there was a lot of segregation between what men and women did when they were in the Church.
 
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It certainly doesn't imply in any way shape or form that God would be fine with a naked congregation.
Those same requirements also same that no one who is lame or deformed shall approach the alter. Should we also impose those same rules on modern congregations?
 
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Bring up the entire apostolic constitutions where it discusses baptism. It gives a lot of context.

Here is the portion about the catechumenate:



And the baptism:



You are right that this doesn’t say baptismal garment, but it does say that the children went first, then the men, then the women, then they redressed before gathering with the congregation.

A few other interesting pieces of context regarding men and women:

18 When the teacher finishes his instruction, the catechumens will pray by themselves, separate from the faithful. 2The women will also pray in another place in the church, by themselves, whether faithful women or catechumen women. 3After the catechumens have finished praying, theydo not give the kiss of peace, for their kiss is not yet pure. 4But the faithful shall greet one another with a kiss, men with men, and women with women. Men must not greet women with a kiss.

5All the women should cover their heads with a pallium, and not simply with a piece of linen, which is not a proper veil.

They redressed before joining the congregation, they were baptized in order of children, men and the women, and there was a lot of segregation between what men and women did when they were in the Church.
And that was much later, not the 200s.
 
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What we see in this thread are posters who don’t know history trying to impose modern views on what is said in scripture. Nudity is not condemned in scripture. Forced nudity is described as being shameful, but nudity in general is not. Today nudity and sex are, sadly, linked. That was not the case in the early church. Darkhourse has provided descriptions of nudism; other posters have largely ignored them.

Wrong.
Nudity and sex is not the topic here.
And you cannot say other posters have ignored another posters description of nudity , but most likely rather not agree with the parallel of that posters post.
This has absolutely nothing to do with "modern" views of nudity whatsoever .
Why did God Himself shed blood to cover Adam and Eves nakedness? (Besides the obvious pictorial of future salvation).
 
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Those same requirements also same that no one who is lame or deformed shall approach the alter. Should we also impose those same rules on modern congregations?

Revelation 3
15I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. 16So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. 17Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

Show me when running around naked has ever been looked upon as a positive thing in the Bible.

But by all means run around naked, eat, drink, and be merry.
 
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